So why not do it like last year?

[Mr. Scot]

I meam he is a rookie and still learning. But he's proven he can make the quick and tight catches.

I know this isn't what the topic is, but looking "forward" I can maybe see Philly as that threat and maybe even Bersin as the Avant style guy with KB being the big target.

Here's hope'n I guess.

 

I could see that.

 

Philly is probably the closest thing we have to a WCO style receiver right now.

 

[Guild]

As far as I can tell we have next to no YAC ability outside of 28.  This greatly hinders a WCO style attack leading us to need longer developing plays to at least make intermediate 10-20 yard throws.  The OL is not good enough for this at least without a legit running attack which we also cannot manifest because we haven't been able to run block for about four years now.  Additionally, we cannot force opposing defenses to play deeper into the backfield due to the lack of a speed threat meaning that short passes are still crowded in traffic.

[DanTheMan]

Piggybacking off prior discussion () although you could debate which elements we have or don't, I think it's generally agreed that right now the Panthers don't have all the elements necessary to run an effective Coryell offense.

 

But what's really odd about all this? 

 

We didn't really run a straight Coryell attack all last season.

 

Last year, the coaches chose to go more 'West Coast' in the offensive attack.  Many of us found it a curious choice given that, to that point, shorter passes were not exactly Cam Newton's strong suit. He was a much better longballer, so why switch from what he was good at to what he was not as good at? 

 

Still, given that we had issues on the offensive line, a short quick passing game made a lot of sense.  The hope was that Newton would make the adjustment quickly, and he did.  Despite one or two bumps in the road early, Newton actually worked pretty well with the short passing game.  And combined with an effective defense, that offensive approach helped us to go 12-4, win the division and secure a first round bye.

 

Fast forward to now, and sad to say we have issues with the offensive line protection again.

 

So in light of that, the big question:

 

Why aren't we going back to the approach that worked last year?

 

I actually believe I know the reason (or at least a reason) but I want to hear what others have to say first.

Running Backs Hurt...Oline won't/CAN'T give Cam enough time in the pocket.

[magnus]

Piggybacking off prior discussion () although you could debate which elements we have or don't, I think it's generally agreed that right now the Panthers don't have all the elements necessary to run an effective Coryell offense.

 

But what's really odd about all this? 

 

We didn't really run a straight Coryell attack all last season.

 

Last year, the coaches chose to go more 'West Coast' in the offensive attack.  Many of us found it a curious choice given that, to that point, shorter passes were not exactly Cam Newton's strong suit. He was a much better longballer, so why switch from what he was good at to what he was not as good at? 

 

Still, given that we had issues on the offensive line, a short quick passing game made a lot of sense.  The hope was that Newton would make the adjustment quickly, and he did.  Despite one or two bumps in the road early, Newton actually worked pretty well with the short passing game.  And combined with an effective defense, that offensive approach helped us to go 12-4, win the division and secure a first round bye.

 

Fast forward to now, and sad to say we have issues with the offensive line protection again.

 

So in light of that, the big question:

 

Why aren't we going back to the approach that worked last year?

 

I actually believe I know the reason (or at least a reason) but I want to hear what others have to say first.

Hey man!  Hope you're well.  Haven't read the rest of the thread but you're 100% wrong in your OP. 

Newton wasn't really throwing that much short stuff.  Yes, the packaged plays to Ginn/Smith were there to a point, and everyone runs drags underneath with a WR/TE, but the WCO means a hefty dose of the backs, too.   The RBs were barely targeted all season in non-screen situations.  

Newton's time to throw was among the longest in the league,  Essentially, our backs stayed in to block or acted as if they were most of the time.  It was downfield WRs running post, corner, fly, and then the packaged plays (WR screen or slot/TE curl off run blocking and Cam's option to give/pull/throw). 

 

That's how I saw it anyway. 

 

 

 

I'm not against a series of quick passes but I don't know if it fits his style.  Or Anderson's, for those guys.  It's good when used for ball control, and I'm not against trying to stretch the field both vertically and horizontally.   

 

But also count me as a guy who doesn't see the pass O as "the problem".

 

 

[magnus]

As far as I can tell we have next to no YAC ability outside of 28.  This greatly hinders a WCO style attack leading us to need longer developing plays to at least make intermediate 10-20 yard throws.  The OL is not good enough for this at least without a legit running attack which we also cannot manifest because we haven't been able to run block for about four years now.  Additionally, we cannot force opposing defenses to play deeper into the backfield due to the lack of a speed threat meaning that short passes are still crowded in traffic.

I remember someone tweeting that Olsen led the league in YAC, but I can't source it and I believe it was before the BAL game.

 

 

 

Saw another post re: WCO and Philly being the best we have - disagree there.  Avant was a WCO ace in the slot and Cotchery, while better suited here, can get it done there.  Great routes, good hands, both guys.  Either can get open on short space, probably better than they are now in the 15-18 yard stuff they're doing a lot of now.

[Guild]

I remember someone tweeting that Olsen led the league in YAC, but I can't source it and I believe it was before the BAL game.

Interesting.  I recall him only having the one big gain which is great but inconsistent.  While not terrible I think that Olsen's YAC ability hasn't been his strength while here. 

 

After looking it up Olsen has just over 100 YAC with 5.1 YAC/r.  I think about 40 of it came off of one play.  Not sure that qualifies as great YAC ability or not.  What say you?

[Mr. Scot]

Hey man!  Hope you're well.  Haven't read the rest of the thread but you're 100% wrong in your OP. 

Newton wasn't really throwing that much short stuff.  Yes, the packaged plays to Ginn/Smith were there to a point, and everyone runs drags underneath with a WR/TE, but the WCO means a hefty dose of the backs, too.   The RBs were barely targeted all season in non-screen situations.  

Newton's time to throw was among the longest in the league,  Essentially, our backs stayed in to block or acted as if they were most of the time.  It was downfield WRs running post, corner, fly, and then the packaged plays (WR screen or slot/TE curl off run blocking and Cam's option to give/pull/throw). 

 

That's how I saw it anyway. 

 

I'm not against a series of quick passes but I don't know if it fits his style. 

 

Oh, I thought they did, at least as opposed to the way Chudzinski had run things. 

 

At the very least, that was what it had been stated they were planning to do in some early reports.  The idea was to go to more quick passes as opposed to the longer developing routes.  And yeah, that was how it looked in practice to me.  Certainly far from pure WCO, but not as longball as before.

 

We can agree to disagree on that part.

 

I think that approach might not work this year though.

 

And yeah, I'm doing good Mags.  Hope you are too.

[magnus]

I'll agree it's small sample size. I also believe you're on point, more or less, that the guys we have aren't good at RAC.  Backs included. 

 

 

[Mr. Scot]

I remember someone tweeting that Olsen led the league in YAC, but I can't source it and I believe it was before the BAL game.

 

Saw another post re: WCO and Philly being the best we have - disagree there.  Avant was a WCO ace in the slot and Cotchery, while better suited here, can get it done there.  Great routes, good hands, both guys.  Either can get open on short space, probably better than they are now in the 15-18 yard stuff they're doing a lot of now.

 

Avant definitely has the WCO experience, but I don't think he's an ideal WCO receiver.  In fact, I think there was some discussion about the time the Eagles drafted him that he might not be an ideal fit for their system (because he wasn't a very speedy/elusive runner, if I remember correctly; could be wrong there).

 

[Guild]

Avant definitely has the WCO experience, but I don't think he's an ideal WCO receiver.  In fact, I think there was some discussion about the time the Eagles drafted him that he might not be an ideal fit for their system (because he wasn't a very speedy/elusive runner, if I remember correctly; could be wrong there).

 

 

If I recall correctly wasn't Avant mostly the Eagles' third and medium bailout guy?  Back in the Reid days that is.

[Mr. Scot]

If I recall correctly wasn't Avant mostly the Eagles' third and medium bailout guy?  Back in the Reid days that is.

 

I believe so.

 

I'll agree it's small sample size. I also believe you're on point, more or less, that the guys we have aren't good at RAC.  Backs included. 

 

And that is why I don't believe we can be as successful with a short/quick pass approach this season.

 

Even with WCO veteran Avant, this retooled batch of receivers isn't ideally suited to that type of attack.  This is not a group that includes guys likely to take a short pass and turn it into a huge gain. 

 

Now, you could argue that having guys with better overall hands than last season could help facilitate a WCO, but the lack of a true home run threat (like sadly, Steve Smith could conceivably have been) makes me think it'd turn into the 'horizontal' variety.

 

That's my analysis at least.  Feel free to add your take.

[Guild]

And that is why I don't believe we can be as successful with a short/quick pass approach.

 

Even with WCO veteran Avant, this retooled batch of receivers isn't ideally suited to that type of attack.  This is not a group that includes guys likely to take a short pass and turn it into a huge gain. 

 

Now, you could argue that having guys with better overall hands than last season could help facilitate a WCO, but the lack of a true home run threat (like sadly, Steve Smith could conceivably have been) makes me think it'd turn into the 'horizontal' variety.

 

That's my analysis at least.  Feel free to add your take.

 

Do I get a prize for saying that earlier?  I'm thinking season tickets should do it.

[Mr. Scot]

Do I get a prize for saying that earlier?  I'm thinking season tickets should do it.

 

I'd give 'em to ya if I had 'em

 

Your post was definitely one of the 'right track' ones.  I still wanted to wait a little longer before responding though.

 

As it is today, I've definitely been on here too much

 

[CAB]

Mr. Scot, your threads and posts always sound so intelligent and they make you think. I swear I am not being glib. I imagine you being a university professor or a counselor (idk why I picked those two necessarily) which means you are probably a Hell's Angel.