Dave Gettleman?

[*FreeFua*]

With CJ's most recent restructure, what's it look like going forward if we cut him after this season?

[Proudiddy]

 

 

 

I can't hit on each thing here, but I can't appreciate the validity of your points when you're nitpicking hyperbole to tear down a strawman and deflect from the validity of my own points being made. 

 

I already addressed this with fuzz, but the truth is somewhere in the middle.  The loudest voices in defense of Gettleman as an infallible GM are just as wrong as the ones claiming he is the root of all of our issues.  There are valid points on both sides.  I'm not saying he is the devil incarnate, I'm saying he made mistakes, and some BIG ones this offseason.  You just acknowledged yourself that he gambled and lost regarding Hardy ("and just like we had some good fortune last season we're having bad fortune this year").  That's all I'm asking for...  acknowledge that he made some bad decisions.  The problem is, just as with most every other issue here at the huddle and countrywide IRL for that matter, people draw a line, pick one side or the other, and then try to level the other side with the same talking points with pneumatic, nuclear powered screams - driving home the same points over and over again whether they are completely true or not.  People become further polarized on each side of the argument when they feel their valid points are NOT being heard...  Which is what is going on with the Gettleman issue now.

 

Some treat him as some golden calf, others as the worst GM in the history of the league.  He's not either at this point.  And we won't know for a few more years...  As much as you want to point out his resume, he was not a GM before, Frash.  He was making decisions but, he wasn't the one solely responsible for making ALL decisions. 

 

I know a lot of my points are accurate and valid, and you make similar points on the other side of the argument.

 

Hell yes, I am pissed that we have been blown out in embarrassing fashion the last two weeks, with notable players on each of those opponents who played for us last year (and Smitty having been here for 12)...  I'm not saying Gettleman is solely responsible for it, but I want him to be held accountable for the bad decisions he made.  Some have yet to see an outcome, so it's too early to tell.  But, in the present, the moves I mentioned have proven to be bad mistakes on his part.

 

As I said earlier, KB, KK, Star, Benwikere, etc., those are all great picks.  Credit to Gettleman.  But, we cannot give him a pass for the ones he got wrong because he has a shiny, cool resume.  The NFL is about "what have you done for me lately," and while yes, Hurney left him a horrible cap situation, he also left him several key pieces to start with, and by adding a few complementary pieces and lighting a fire under Rivera's ass after the 1-3 start last year, we went onto a successful season. 

 

Go back and look at my posts regarding Gettleman last season.  Nothing but praise.  He was killing it.  You're getting caught up in this extreme, forced, Huddle dichotomy and acting as though it's bloods and crips over Gettleman.  No...  it's not.  I don't hate his guts.  I have hated some of his moves and it was all from this offseason.  I thought he was a boss last season, but this season, he made some horrible decisions and took some horrible chances that he didn't have to.

 

And perhaps we just have differing opinions on philosophy...  There is more than one right or wrong way to run a team.  My opinion is he made wrong decisions where there were several good options at his disposal (i.e. Hardy - tag and trade, tag and sign long-term versus tagging him and getting neither of those things accomplished).  Speaking of that, I don't appreciate the condescending tone of "you probably don't know this..."  I certainly hope you were just doing that for effect...  YES, I do know.  I'm aware of market value, lol...  I'm aware of how negotiations and contracts work.  Thank you.

 

I hear what you're saying and understand where you're coming from, I just don't agree with it.  IMO, He f'ed up this season.  Does that speak to his long-term prospects here?  No, or at least I certainly hope not.  I just feel he took a step back by being stubborn when he didn't have to.  You don't have to agree with it.  I respect you and your opinion, and as I said, the answer is somewhere in between. If we would actually process what others are saying and quit reveling in our own echoes, perhaps the huddle could find the apparently-utopian common ground.

 

 

 

 

[AU-panther]

So how have we done the last two weeks, Fuzz?

So all those moves you highlighted have been flawless positives? I am not going to go through all that with you. Your first point re: the first bolded sentence... what are you saying? Name prospects? The contract and numbers of who? Who is already on the roster when you're making the pick or who you ill be picking and how their contract will trend in the future? That is so ambiguous...

You cannot dismiss that the moves were horrible from a football perspective by simply excusing them with cap numbers. Yes, that plays a role but teams circumvent them every year. You still aren't giving valid reasons why Hardy made it to the season with the 13 mil tag in the first place. And if Smitty's production didn't justify his cap number going forward, if that was the basis for the decision alone, are you telling me there weren't better candidates to cut in the same situation? Lol. He publicly embarrassed Smitty and then Smitty refused to take a pay cut as his pride was hurt, so Gettleman can be him. That's on Gettleman. He painted himself into a corner with his mouth. That very well should've been one of the other salary albatross that are currently on the sidelines.

All the other atrocious gambles are as well.

 

From what I can figure there was one player we could have cut that would have freed up as much cap space as Smith over the next 3 years.  He happened to be part of a productive part of our team.

 

Taking emotion and all of the locker room rumors out of it, the fact is Smith was a logical person to cut from a cap perspective. 

 

Rough numbers here but cutting Smith will create about 20m in cap space over the next 3 years.

Cutting Stew would have created about 5m.  Other problem with cutting Stew is that we would have actually lost about 5m in cap space in 2015.  We would have gained about 10m in 2016.

 

As far as the Hardy tag goes, maybe we were trying to tag and trade him or tag and sign him.  The franchise tag is often used to create leverage for the team to get a long term deal done.  Most players hate playing under one year deals.  I'm just glad we didn't cave in and give him what he wanted before everything happened.  Some GMs would have.

[frash.exe]

Just listen to yourself. Last year you had nothing but praise, and this year you have a lot of gripes, you're questioning every single personnel transaction he makes, and you have an avatar of Gettleman with a scumbag steve hat superimposed on his head. The difference is the team isn't winning. We could have all these injuries and be 4-0 and you wouldn't give a poo how bad Kugbila sucks. You didn't care when DJ Moore accomplished nothing last year or when Domenik Hixon barely did anything. You weren't complaining about those moves. But now every decision Gettleman makes is the wrong one. My only advice, and this can be said for a lot of other people as well, is if the team pisses you off that much this year is to spend Sunday doing something else you're actually going to enjoy this season. Go to a brewery or pumpkin picking or be social and forget about football for a while. It just isn't worth it letting all those other opportunities for enjoyment go so you can piss yourself off watching this team lose, and brood and just spill your emotions out on a keyboard every week.

Until then you can manufacture points like Gettleman taking a risk on Hardy (which makes no sense except in the context of hindsight) all you want. How do you assess risk properly? You actually think Gettleman should sit at his desk and go over the likelihood of 100,000 scenarios and make his decision when he's done processing them six weeks later?

[Proudiddy]

Just listen to yourself. Last year you had nothing but praise, and this year you have a lot of gripes, you're questioning every single personnel transaction he makes, and you have an avatar of Gettleman with a scumbag steve hat superimposed on his head. The difference is the team isn't winning. We could have all these injuries and be 4-0 and you wouldn't give a poo how bad Kugbila sucks. You didn't care when DJ Moore accomplished nothing last year or when Domenik Hixon barely did anything. You weren't complaining about those moves. But now every decision Gettleman makes is the wrong one. My only advice, and this can be said for a lot of other people as well, is if the team pisses you off that much this year is to spend Sunday doing something else you're actually going to enjoy this season. Go to a brewery or pumpkin picking or be social and forget about football for a while. It just isn't worth it letting all those other opportunities for enjoyment go so you can piss yourself off watching this team lose, and brood and just spill your emotions out on a keyboard every week.

Until then you can manufacture points like Gettleman taking a risk on Hardy (which makes no sense except in the context of hindsight) all you want. How do you assess risk properly? You actually think Gettleman should sit at his desk and go over the likelihood of 100,000 scenarios and make his decision when he's done processing them six weeks later?

 

No Frash, you're still talking in absolutes as though there is only two frames of mind to have in this discussion.

 

No not every move he makes this year is bad, but most of them have been.  Kugbila sucking last year didn't matter, not only because we were winning but because we didn't need him, lol.  Hixon ultimately didn't matter last year because we didn't need him (minus his GW TD), because Shula was orchestrating a ridiculously run-heavy offense.  And DJ Moore was Captain Redux, I didn't expect much from him anyway...  especially after we signed Florence.  Those moves are irrelevant.  Signing Mitchell?  Huge win.  Ginn?  Huge win.  Florence?  Mikell?  And then we let all of those guys walk...

 

We can beat around this bush all day long with examples to support each side, but at the end of the day, I, as you do, love this team.  I want us to win.  I don't hate Gettleman.  It just feels like this season, for all the good he did last season, he took all of those awesome moves and flushed them in favor of the worst moves he could possibly make.  Did he do it on purpose?  No.  Is he without fault, though?  According to some, apparently he is.  And that's what pisses me off.  And you bring up a good point regarding what the outlook was going into last season and what it was going into this season...  you know what the difference is?  Expectations.  People can say all they want that Gettleman is still working with one hand tied behind his back because of Hurney, but we went 12-4 last season by making smart complementary moves where needed.  This offseason he took a huge chunk out of the franchise's identity and ignored positions that were widely known to be a problem before the season started.  I don't see how that is overlooked.  That isn't conjecture or subjective.  It's the truth.  You don't go into the season with your franchise QB standing behind a 3rd-string LT who should actually be a guard because he lacks footwork and speed to stay with anyone on the outside and a converted DT as your right tackle.  You can't do that.  Period.

 

As an aside, the scumbag gettleman avi was made the day he released Smitty and I haven't even looked at it myself for months until you just mentioned it, lol.  It's not to make a statement, it was done as therapy at the time. 

 

And despite your hyperbolic numbers of different scenarios and time frames there, YES, I do expect him to look at all foreseeable possibilities before making a decision...  LOL, that is what he is paid to do.  PROJECT. 

[frash.exe]

Okay then, we don't have to agree on everything

I still love you though. Now come here and give me a big ol' smooch

[Proudiddy]

LOL, bro hug will do!

[frash.exe]

[My Goodness My Guinness]

Ladies and gentleman, here is an example of Gettleman fans (jk)

While the Gettle detractors provide actual reasons for why they dislike him, a Gettleman "supporter" comes in and rudely insults someone just speaking their opinion while providing absolutely no knowledgable insight. Says a lot...

It was a bit rash of me to insult the OP like I did...but to say that Gettleman is the reason that our defense cannot tackle, he is the reason our O-line cannot block ANYBODY, and that he is the reason that Ron Rivera is on the sidelines just staring blankly onto the field while our team gets absolutely manhandled in every aspect of the game, is pretty ridiculous...he isn't out there playing the game. And before you say that it is his fault for the O-line, the only difference from last year is that Gross retired, nothing to do about it, and chris scott is gone as well as wharton...not too big of losses there 

[hdevonxz]

Bell/Chandler/Foucault...those are our tackles.  Beyond any cap situation, you have to think we could have found something better somewhere.  I just find it puzzling.  Like ....what were they thinking and why'd so many of us convince ourselves they could at least be average?  My opinion of Chandler has completely reversed in 4 games.  

 

I never thought they could be average lol and complained about it a lot this off season, but the fact is that people just kept complaining so much that others just got fed up and said don't worry about it, it'll be fine, stop beating a dead horse, DG knows what he's doing, etc lol

 

[top dawg]

I am a G-man supporter, but unlike some I can admit that he hasn't been perfect. Overall I think that he has been a positive, and I believe that you have to give any GM a few seasons to build and mold the team how they see fit.  This is particularly the case coming after a GM whose questionable business decisions don't leave a lot of room for picking up sure-fire acquisitions.  That being said, I feel that G-man whiffed on some key decisions, especially skipping over Hurst late. 

 

Nobody is perfect though, and G-man has a difficult job, so I am not going to tar and feather the guy.  I did hate some of the decisions he has made. I hated them then, and continue to hate them now.  I have also liked some of them. Being what has transpired, I am fully justified in my opinion.

[JB82887]

This isn't baseball. This isn't Madden. Cap space is required to sign quality talent. Roman Harper was a terrible signing, other than that these guys were about the same level of players we brought in last year on 1 year deals. You do the best you can with what you have, hardy being out and gross/Wharton retiring have screwed us more than anything else people want to complain about.

Some issues are primary problems that cause other area of the team to look bad. No pass rush makes cheap secondary look cheap. Same would have happened last year with the secondary if hardy/Alexander/Davis were removed. Bad blocking gets running backs injured and obviously is a negative for cam. Same would hve happened last year with gross/Wharton removed.

Only issue I have is not finding a veteran or two to bring in to compete at tackle as much as try preach competition throughout the roster. Can't predict hardy going bobby brown

[JB82887]

So all the talk about wideouts or cam or luke etc is really a secondary problem. The same problems you are describing right now existed last year but were masked by areas of strength. It is what literally EVERY team in the NFL has to do in the salary cap era. No such thing as a perfect roster

[R0CKnR0LLA]

His draft record so far has been phenomenal. 6 starters and one nickel back out of 11 draft picks.

 

Looks like he's going to be 5 for 5 on all his picks in the first 3 rounds. Trai Turner has graded out as our best OLineman so far this season. Ealy has been our 2nd best DLineman, behind Short, his other 2nd rounder. Star was in the running for DROY for most of his rookie year and now Benjamin is in the running for OROY.

 

I'm not sure people realize just how insanely good this is compared to the league average. The jury is still out on Boston and yes, he whiffed on a few late round picks (Kugbila, Barner, Gaffney). It happens. Even so his success over the last 2 years in the draft is easily top 10 if not top 5 in the league.

 

The most common gripes I've seen are that we didn't get a day 1 starter franchise left tackle in the 6th round or as an UDFA, which is laughable. Or that we didn't bring in an OT in free agency, even though the biggest contract offer he made was to one of the top free agent OTs (he just chose to sign elsewhere). Or keeping Hardy on the team (one of the few elite players on the roster and in case you haven't been paying attention someone we REALLY need) because of things that happened after he was tagged that nobody in the world could foresee.