Dave Gettleman?

[TheRumGone]

You make that move, you can't get Avant, or Cotchery.  You would still have to cut Smith, and restructure (push back money) to have been able to pull the trigger.

 

On top of that have no free money to roll over to next season for a Cam contract.

 

 

The tag was the right call, even if it didn't work out.

 

even if you didn't tag hardy and let him walk and everything played out as it did? Some dead money coming off the books next year and other cuts.

 

this year we would be fine and still have 7 million to spare on top of what we already have saved.  And honestly that one oline move would work for the best. move bell back to RT and its essentially the same oline as last year. Collins is good.

 

it's a tough call. i'm not one of these idiots screaming he should have done this he should have done that with no cap implications. I realize whats going on.

[TheRumGone]

GMs don't have the luxury of drafting every player.  They have to pick one.  If you look at a list of every tackle took after Ealy I am sure there will be several that turn out to be very good players.  History tells us though that the majority of them won't work out. 

 

I'm guessing the FO and/or coaches felt like Ealy had a better chance of being successful then any of the tackles that were on the board. 

 

 

That could have been a really good pick up, but I'll play the other side.

 

7 million more to play with this year.  17 million less to play with over the next 5 and we have some big contracts coming up.  Adding a second player would just add to this. Also we are close to the cap already for next year so that 6 million next year will affect decisions with some of our current players.

 

There is no guarantee he would have signed for that amount with us.  Maybe it would have took 35m.  One of the big problems with FA is you often get into bidding wars.  How much did we offer him?

 

What would have helped us more against Baltimore, this guy at tackle or Hardy at end?  I don't know.  DG and/or coaches clearly thought Hardy.

 

yea i'm playing devils advocate. I realize we are in a very bad bad way with the cap.

 

[ickmule]

Rivera and Shula shouldn't be safe either after the losing season I think we're about to have.

Lol at Rivera being fired. Gman gave the dude $hit and expected him to make caviar with it. RR is safe.

[frash.exe]

IMO, you are one of the best, most informed posters here, Frash.

But, I can't jibe with this.

He may have said what to expect, but then we went out and went 12-4 with a home playoff game (that should've resulted in an NFCCG berth) and had us believing we could take another step forward after that.

The Hardy debacle was his decision. Did anyone expect him to go out and get a DV charge? No. But, the point is, he should've already been locked up long term or traded for assets. Instead, we stupidly tagged him with no plan of having him here in the future after this season according to many in the know, and now he's sitting on his couch getting paid. That's not on Hardy. That's on Gettleman, in terms of what we're lacking on the field and why. That 13 mil could've been used elsewhere if he had no plans on keeping Hardy around anyway. So, why tag him?

And then he drafts a DE who isn't looking too hot right now, basically crowning him as Hardy's replacement, just to remind us how smart he is. Well, that's not looking all that promising now, lol. So, it's possible he also wasted a valuable 2nd round pick due to how he mishandled the Hardy situation as well. That second round pick could've been a tackle, a safety, a corner, or another WR.

Then yesterday, we get to witness another one of his gambles that paid off... He releases the greatest/most productive player in franchise history claiming that it is due to production/salary issues. WRONG. Smitty is breaking records right now and we just got blown out on the receiving end of it. Not only was that a horrible, HORRIBLE football move, it also left us as a laughing stock throughout media and was a horrible PR move. How do you think players that knew how good he still was feel that they have to spend ANOTHER week answering questions about a guy who should've never been on another team in the first place? And now because he torched us, it still lingers. That is demoralizing, and I honestly worry about what that does to our roster mentally.

Now, we can also go down the path of the many gambles he's taken two years in on mid-round picks that have failed equally as miserably as the aforementioned... Kugbilla? What about letting a guy from a local school (Hurst) get out of the state and end up starting for the Ravens as they blew us out yesterday as well? Now, I know that isn't all on him, but it's hard to ignore that when instead he signs a fuging useless goomba-sized sloth from Canada who probably spent more time fishing in an icehole than he ever has wearing football pads, who will never see the field, and is taking up an active roster spot.

What about him insulting our QB last year with a similar comment like he made about Smitty during this offseason? What about letting Mitchell walk and replacing him with Roman Harper (AFTER RELEASING SMITTY FOR EXTRA BURN, lol)? These are inexcusable failures.

He's trying to outsmart everyone and it isn't working. These have all been horrendous decisions and they're biting us in the ass right now.

Do you really think even if we hadn't lost RBs, Davis, Hardy, and others that we wouldn't have lost the last two weeks?

I agree with you, he is NOT Hurney. And when he gets it right, he gets it right (KB, Star, KK, Benwikere, etc.), but so many of these other moves wreak of arrogance and not sound, solely football-influenced decisions. He is letting his ego get in the way of some of the most simple fixes available to us.

As I lamented all offseason, you don't lose that many key contributors to a playoff team, fill their roles with wet paperbags full of pudding and tell everyone, "watch, I'm smarter than you. we'll still be just as good..." It doesn't work like that. And he needs to be held accountable for it.

I can't address all of this right now, but I'm going to highlight some of the stuff on here that stuck out to me.

1. No GM or personnel executive can account for legal incidents that take a player off the field. Ozzie Newsome, the guy you're all indirectly praising for seeing what you see in Smith or whatever, couldn't forsee what was going to happen to Ray Rice himself, and this is a guy that was already into an iron clad contract extension, not a franchise tag. Same thing with Bill Beligenius and Aaron Hernandez. It happens to the best of them. I don't see you or any of the other guys calling them foolish, or stupid, or unqualified. Which leads me to believe that this is all subjective fan-based griping. Gettleman could make all the right moves and if the team starts piling up injuries and loses games it's his fault that he didn't see this coming and fire the strength and conditioning coaches in advance.

2. "He insulted Smith even further by signing KNOWN ARCHENEMY ROMAN HARPER" ...my god. Is it Gettleman's job to blacklist every player Steve Smith had a squibble with on the field some-odd years ago now? That would make a fairly long list. I guess we should forget about even trying to bring in Janoris Jenkins, Aqib Talib, Richard Sherman, and Cortland Finnegan for starters, no matter how good they can play.

3. Where were we going to find more than 25 million dollars to give a competing bid offer to Mitchell so he wouldn't go to Pittsburgh, a player btw who everyone was laughing at during the Steelers/Ravens game? You're aware of our horrible cap situation but not aware of that? You're better than this.

4. How exactly do you "gamble away" mid round picks? By the fourth round, any GM worth two craps is taking a shot in the dark there anyway.

5. I don't understand this perceived clairvoyant arrogance on the part of Gettleman's attitude. The guy has done nothing but be candid in interviews in the most diplomatic way possible and try his best to work with what he's got. Just because he makes different moves than you'd agree with, doesn't mean he's saying, "hey proudiddy, you message board poster, I'm motherfuging David Gettleman and I'm going to tell Hurst to fug off just to piss you off and then I'm going to use my magical football powers to heal Kugbila and it's going to be funny hahaha I'm a genius ha", but that's what it sounds like you think he's doing. It would take an insurmountable effort I don't even think is possible to make moves that every single panthers fan agrees with, even the ones like CarolinaChuck who think Cam should be cut tomorrow. He's not here to make fanservice personnel moves. If that's what he was trying to do it would look like Hurney 2.0.

[thefuzz]

So how have we done the last two weeks, Fuzz?

So all those moves you highlighted have been flawless positives? I am not going to go through all that with you. Your first point re: the first bolded sentence... what are you saying? Name prospects? The contract and numbers of who? Who is already on the roster when you're making the pick or who you ill be picking and how their contract will trend in the future? That is so ambiguous...

You cannot dismiss that the moves were horrible from a football perspective by simply excusing them with cap numbers. Yes, that plays a role but teams circumvent them every year. You still aren't giving valid reasons why Hardy made it to the season with the 13 mil tag in the first place. And if Smitty's production didn't justify his cap number going forward, if that was the basis for the decision alone, are you telling me there weren't better candidates to cut in the same situation? Lol. He publicly embarrassed Smitty and then Smitty refused to take a pay cut as his pride was hurt, so Gettleman can be him. That's on Gettleman. He painted himself into a corner with his mouth. That very well should've been one of the other salary albatross that are currently on the sidelines.

All the other atrocious gambles are as well.

 

You sound like you are crying over losses, and think that this team is/was good enough to make a run at the SB.  We aren't, and weren't last season.  Especially when you factor in injuries, that we didn't have to deal with last season.

 

 

DG didn't want Hardy long term, he wanted him short term, with the ability to sign him long term this season, and let CJ walk next season.  This isn't very hard to do, but you have to be willing to understand when players are cut able, you don't seem to do enough research to answer those questions.  I do.

 

As for the last two weeks thing, I said this had the makings of a 9/10 win team, and if we can handle the next 5 or so games, we may get there.

 

 

Releasing Smith was the right call, he is old, and expensive and we are a young team with an eye to the future, not 2014.  I have stated this many many times, and your type won't listen.  I can't find a starting LT that could be here, and us be able to sign that wouldn't have severely limited what we could do with Luke and Cam long term.  You toss out there that you hated the Ealy pick....OK who would you have drafted instead?

[Big Beast]

Can we the fans do anything?  Let the front office know that we don't give a crap about what the stupid American media thinks and play Hardy.  If McDonald is playing for domestic violence then Hardy should be able to play too.  We the  fans need to demand that he be able to play. 

just play greg hardy! would bill bellichick bench him??? why is mcdonald still playing? 

 

[Proudiddy]

I can't address all of this right now, but I'm going to highlight some of the stuff on here that stuck out to me.

1. No GM or personnel executive can account for legal incidents that take a player off the field. Ozzie Newsome, the guy you're all indirectly praising for seeing what you see in Smith or whatever, couldn't forsee what was going to happen to Ray Rice himself, and this is a guy that was already into an iron clad contract extension, not a franchise tag. Same thing with Bill Beligenius and Aaron Hernandez. It happens to the best of them. I don't see you or any of the other guys calling them foolish, or stupid, or unqualified. Which leads me to believe that this is all subjective fan-based griping. Gettleman could make all the right moves and if the team starts piling up injuries and loses games it's his fault that he didn't see this coming and fire the strength and conditioning coaches in advance.

2. "He insulted Smith even further by signing KNOWN ARCHENEMY ROMAN HARPER" ...my god. Is it Gettleman's job to blacklist every player Steve Smith had a squibble with on the field some-odd years ago now? That would make a fairly long list. I guess we should forget about even trying to bring in Janoris Jenkins, Aqib Talib, Richard Sherman, and Cortland Finnegan for starters, no matter how good they can play.

3. Where were we going to find more than 25 million dollars to give a competing bid offer to Mitchell so he wouldn't go to Pittsburgh, a player btw who everyone was laughing at during the Steelers/Ravens game? You're aware of our horrible cap situation but not aware of that? You're better than this.

4. How exactly do you "gamble away" mid round picks? By the fourth round, any GM worth two craps is taking a shot in the dark there anyway.

5. I don't understand this perceived clairvoyant arrogance on the part of Gettleman's attitude. The guy has done nothing but be candid in interviews in the most diplomatic way possible and try his best to work with what he's got. Just because he makes different moves than you'd agree with, doesn't mean he's saying, "hey proudiddy, you message board poster, I'm motherfuging David Gettleman and I'm going to tell Hurst to fug off just to piss you off and then I'm going to use my magical football powers to heal Kugbila and it's going to be funny hahaha I'm a genius ha", but that's what it sounds like you think he's doing. It would take an insurmountable effort I don't even think is possible to make moves that every single panthers fan agrees with, even the ones like CarolinaChuck who think Cam should be cut tomorrow. He's not here to make fanservice personnel moves. If that's what he was trying to do it would look like Hurney 2.0.

 

You definitely took those and ran with them the way you saw fit ignoring all of the validity.  Of course there were some fan-colored commentary surrounding the actual issues I listed, but you took that way too literally...

 

1.)  The Hardy situation I was discussing had NOTHING to do with his legal matters.  LOL.  I believe I even provided that disclaimer in some way in my initial post to you.  Regardless of whether Hardy got into the trouble he did, why was he still entering the season on a 13 mil franchise tag?  That was the least feasible outcome outside of letting him walk for nothing.  Either lock him up long-term or trade him away so you can make other moves for the best value...  Yeah, I already know the retort to that is, "So message board gurus can complain the value wasn't good enough?"  Lol...  No, because getting his cap number lower than 13 mil was the best plausible option so that we could address other areas of need.  Furthermore, you either trade him or lock him up so you are certain about what you need to do at that position prior to the draft or the season itself, in case you need to draft or sign a player there.  Instead, he locked him up with the tag, handicapped us from signing even ONE of the guys we let go in FA, or offensive line help, and then drafted a DE anyway.  And no one here is calling Belichick or Newsome an idiot because they have built perennial contenders...

 

2.)  Do you really think that was literal?  LOL.  I'm sure Gettleman was having a hearty, gut-busting evil laugh in his office while rubbing lotion on his heavily-chaffed nipples when he signed Harper.  Obviously, the two moves were mutually exclusive, but that doesn't mean fans don't acknowledge we got the shitty end of the deal when looking at both moves together.  You're also deflecting from the real issue at hand...  Why would you sign Harper to be anything but a backup/role player?  He was notoriously bad with New Orleans and advanced stats show he was among the worst safeties in the entire league...  Like REALLY bad...  Hey, that parlays into your idea that we as fans think he's personally insulting us and therefore we perceive him to be arrogant...

 

 

Skip to 5.)  LOL, no he is arrogant because he is arrogant.  See his comments about "the answer is already on the roster."  See him signing scrub Canadians when there are veterans and UDFAs that are better than them and available at near the same cost.  Him constantly believing that he can develop the least skilled football players at a fraction of the cost of ones who are already at the baseline is ARROGANT.  Him dropping Smitty claiming it was a production to declining skill ratio-based move while leaving several other salary albatrosses on the roster with even less production is ARROGANT.  Having a starting safety unit consisting of Roman "Pedestrian, Stiff-Arm Eating" Harper and Thomas Decoud is ARROGANT.  Not giving your franchise QB an extension (after offering backhanded commentary on him the year before with all of that "candid diplomacy" you referred to that resulted in Smitty getting the boot as well) and then lining him up behind the shittiest OL in pro football, Arena and the SEC likely included, IS fuging ARROGANT. 

 

Now to backtrack...

 

3.) He didn't sign for $25 mil per year.  Remember Hardy's 13 mil?  There you have it.  And people can laugh all they want at him in Pittsburgh, they still kicked out ass at home, and it doesn't negate the fact that he was a perfect fit here regardless of what he does elsewhere.  Also, remember the nail in the coffin of Philly Brown muffing that punt against Pitt?  I'm pretty sure a portion of that 13 mil could've went towards retaining Ginn as well...

 

4.)  You're right...  No one is expecting him to hit on every pick, but the gamble comes in where he drafts some scrub ass offensive linemen from bumfug technical state university and then banks on him to develop, meanwhile, he never sees a snap because he sucks and is injury prone.  Ignoring the position because you are trying to convince everyone that Kugbila is going to be the next Larry Allen while stating your mantra of "the answer is already on the roster" is ARROGANT.

 

[teeray]

Gettleman is trying to build a team for the future with 23 million in dead money on the books.

I don't think he is tanking this year, but I do think he is thinking about 2020 just as much as he was 2014

[raleigh-panther]

There's certain positions where it can work and some where they can't.  LT and RT should not be bandaids unless it's an old vet.  The whole Bell/Chandler blind faith was bad given our biggest asset is our franchise QB.  DG should've been smarter than that.  

 

...but but but,   Byron is left handed and Nate just works so hard........

[dilated_diatribe]

So this was the guy who we were praising all offseason?

 

The guy is the reason we have regressed as a team.

 

#1 He cuts our best freaking player on offense and got nothing in return for him. Nothing!

#2 Our 2 vet lineman retires and what does he do to replace them? Nothing!

#3 We lose Ginn/Lafell 2 young WR's. What does he do add 2 old aging vets? So why did we cut Smitty?

#4 Greg Hardy nuff said.

 

It seems like cutting Steve Smith was a personal agenda from Gettleman. He thought Smitty was a me first player, so he cut him.

 

Again why cut a aging star WR Smitty? To only replace him with 2 aging average WR's?

 

 

 

Plain and simple Gettleman didn't have a plan for this season. This was basically his rebuilding year.

 

 

I still believe in this team, but we are blaming the wrong people, this is all Gettleman's fault.

 

our WRs are better, Gman doesn't have a crystal ball to see what our players are gonna do off the field. The only real problem is the oline but he is a talent scout so I assume there is nobody better than what we have. I personally think setting up a trash can at left AND right tackle would be just as good I mean the DEs still have to run around them.   Other than the Oline Gman has done a great job. Injuries have ruined this team. There is time for this defense to gel but it has to start this week against Chi-town

[Proudiddy]

You sound like you are crying over losses, and think that this team is/was good enough to make a run at the SB.  We aren't, and weren't last season.  Especially when you factor in injuries, that we didn't have to deal with last season.

 

 

DG didn't want Hardy long term, he wanted him short term, with the ability to sign him long term this season, and let CJ walk next season.  This isn't very hard to do, but you have to be willing to understand when players are cut able, you don't seem to do enough research to answer those questions.  I do.

 

As for the last two weeks thing, I said this had the makings of a 9/10 win team, and if we can handle the next 5 or so games, we may get there.

 

 

Releasing Smith was the right call, he is old, and expensive and we are a young team with an eye to the future, not 2014.  I have stated this many many times, and your type won't listen.  I can't find a starting LT that could be here, and us be able to sign that wouldn't have severely limited what we could do with Luke and Cam long term.  You toss out there that you hated the Ealy pick....OK who would you have drafted instead?

 

I didn't say I hated the Ealy pick, I inferred that it was a wasted pick because it wasn't a position of need but he made it predicated on grooming a replacement for Hardy, because as you said, he didn't want him long term.  Which brings me back to that first point...  Why tag him and have him play for the year if you know he isn't in the long term plans, EVEN THOUGH he has already proven to be an elite talent?  And you're right, it's not hard to do.  I understand the concept of cap hits and such...  But that doesn't excuse that he GAMBLED and it failed miserably.

 

Furthermore, are you in his office?  Do you know for a fact that was his plan?  To keep Hardy for a year, see how it played out and then release CJ and lock up Hardy long-term?  No you don't.  So, when looking at how he approached it without any inside-knowledge, it was stupid.  He wasted cap space and a pick and he had other options.

 

And it's clear people have drawn a line in the sand about Smitty and refuse to budge on it...  yet, the people defending Gettleman haven't exactly nailed down their reason justifying it...  First it was he was old and unproductive, then it was he was a bad locker room guy, then it was Smitty demanded his release so good guy getts gave it to him...  LOL.  We will have to agree to disagree.  Tell me what CJ's, D-Los, Godfrey's, or Stew's cap numbers looked like going forward and how their release would've impacted us versus Smitty's before the season.  Problem with that logic is, you are dismissing the fact that Smitty refused to take a paycut after Gettleman arrogantly insulted him in a presser before speaking with Smitty directly...  but, Gettleites refuse to acknowledge that he made such blunders.  He is an infallible man-genius that was single-handedly responsible for the Giants Superbowl winning teams and the 1987 Boston Boys Club Inner-City League pee wee championship team.

 

[Proudiddy]

Oh, and he had Allen Robinson, Justin Britt, Morgan Moses, Billy Turner, and Dezman Southward within 10 picks after Ealy.

[TheRed]

I can't get on board with the judgement on the Ealy pick yet. He's literally 4 regular season games into his NFL career on a defense that has in general as a whole looked like a completely different unit the last few games in back to back 30+ point losses full of numerous gaffes.

[Proudiddy]

I can't get on board with the judgement on the Ealy pick yet. He's literally 4 regular season games into his NFL career on a defense that has in general as a whole looked like a completely different unit the last few games in back to back 30+ point losses full of numerous gaffes.

 

I'm not judging the pick on production...  moreso on need and projection...

 

He drafted Ealy as a potential replacement and/or leverage over Hardy.  I'm saying the pick was unnecessary but was made because he mishandled the Hardy contract situation.

 

It is too early to tell how he'll turnout, but the initial results are not looking promising.