NfL.com: Cam has taken 467 hits or sacks in three years

[CRA]

You run in spots. Sure. But you see this stat called passing td's vs running? The record for running is what, like 27? How many qb's threw more than that last year? Maybe 10-12?

But Steve Young didn't run in spots. He would get near decapitated....then try to pick up a 3rd and 10 with no helmet on....and in a preseason game.

So it was a yes....you would have coached Steve Young to be different. Steve Young IMO was great bc he was allowed to be what he simply was.....same logic I apply with Cam

As far as TD counting? How many rookies ever accounted for what rookie Cam did? If he had a good offense around him he could do video game numbers IMO.

[pstall]

But Steve Young didn't run in spots. He would get near decapitated....then try to pick up a 3rd and 10 with no helmet on....and in a preseason game.

So it was a yes....you would have coached Steve Young to be different. Steve Young IMO was great bc he was allowed to be what he simply was.....same logic I apply with Cam

You're applying this if the scenarios are exactly the same. They're not.

 

The rules/players/focus/schemes are vastly different.

 

Most teams would prefer Cam to "be Cam"  by just running. He isn't uncontainable. But throwing with consistency and picking his spots to run will more difficult to gameplan against.

 

There is a reason running backs regress a year after they rush for over 300 times. Running when he needs to but throwing the ball away instead of a sack will add years to his longevity.

This has nothing to do with keeping him down as much as keeping him on the field for a lot longer. I would rather Cam be Cam for 12 years than 7.

 

[pstall]

But Steve Young didn't run in spots. He would get near decapitated....then try to pick up a 3rd and 10 with no helmet on....and in a preseason game.

So it was a yes....you would have coached Steve Young to be different. Steve Young IMO was great bc he was allowed to be what he simply was.....same logic I apply with Cam

As far as TD counting? How many rookies ever accounted for what rookie Cam did? If he had a good offense around him he could do video game numbers IMO.

 

If, applies to everyone.

Man. Do you even know what it is your trying to accomplish?

[CRA]

You're applying this if the scenarios are exactly the same. They're not.

 

The rules/players/focus/schemes are vastly different.

 

Most teams would prefer Cam to "be Cam"  by just running. He isn't uncontainable. But throwing with consistency and picking his spots to run will more difficult to gameplan against.

 

There is a reason running backs regress a year after they rush for over 300 times. Running when he needs to but throwing the ball away instead of a sack will add years to his longevity.

This has nothing to do with keeping him down as much as keeping him on the field for a lot longer. I would rather Cam be Cam for 12 years than 7.

Cam averaged only what, 6.9 rush attempts a game last year? How is that not throwing and picking spots to run?

And I maintain, I'd rather take my chances and let a player whether it be Steve Young or Cam Newton be great.....than simply trying to milk a couple more seasons out of them. Just my preference. Steve Young could of been a nobody....had his career wrecked before it started by injury being so fearless running. I realize that....but he was allowed to play and was going to play his way. That is how I see Newton. I was on the Newton bandwagon before most....but if we drafted him I wanted us to let him be him. It is a roll of the dice.

We don't go 12-4 last season with Cam playing "smart and last long football last season" IMO.

Builld Cam a great offense around him and maybe I will change my tune.....with the slop around him he isn't going to play it safe bc he doesn't want to lose.

[iamhubby1]

I'm not saying take QB rushing  away all the way.  I'm saying the current amount of hits he's taken is not sustainable for a healthy career. Yes he's not small, but look at Rapelesberger, he's always dinged and misses a few games the last couple of years because he was too stupid/lazy to learn to read defenses.  

 

I would say ideally in a season or two, Cam has no more than 60 rush attemts per year.

A couple of things. Big Ben played all 16 games last year. As did Cam. So not every QB needs to be babied.

And Cam does slide. He just does it as a head first dive. He gets a few more yards, and rarely takes a hit. It always amazes me how he seems to know exactly when to get down.

That said, I would like to see the designed runs trimmed down some myself. A few a game to keep the D honest is all it takes. If they are still worried about him, he can still be used as a decoy. I like that.

[iamhubby1]

Cam averaged only what, 6.9 rush attempts a game last year? How is that not throwing and picking spots to run?

And I maintain, I'd rather take my chances and let a player whether it be Steve Young or Cam Newton be great.....than simply trying to milk a couple more seasons out of them. Just my preference. Steve Young could of been a nobody....had his career wrecked before it started by injury being so fearless running. I realize that....but he was allowed to play and was going to play his way. That is how I see Newton. I was on the Newton bandwagon before most....but if we drafted him I wanted us to let him be him. It is a roll of the dice.

We don't go 12-4 last season with Cam playing "smart and last long football last season" IMO.

Builld Cam a great offense around him and maybe I will change my tune.....with the slop around him he isn't going to play it safe bc he doesn't want to lose.

You were doing so well until this point. It didn't need to be said. You ruined a pretty good post by going there. JMO

[pstall]

2013 vs 2011. 80 attempts over 30 yds in 2011 and just two td's. 2013 he threw 40 times. Half that amount and same td's.

Rushing he had 6 runs for 20 yds in 2011 and 9 in 2012 but dropped down to 2 over 20 yds plus last year.

However, most of his td's came within 1-10 yds in his rookie year, but he threw more last year and even more in the 20-30 yd range.

 

That tells me he runs more EFFECTIVELY, which means, spots and he is now throwing more td's in a smaller window but a more effective range of coverage because he is using his pocket to his advantage.

 

Rushing yards avg for a qb means nothing at the pro level to me.

 

Passing efficiency in the red zone in the 2 nd half and 3rd and long tell me more.

 

You should do some advanced analytics to remove yourself from what you think you know and you will see the game in an entirely different light.

 

Situational stats are an excellent metric.

[CRA]

If, applies to everyone.

Man. Do you even know what it is your trying to accomplish?

I'm not trying to accomplish anything. Just explaining my stance on Cam

My preference with Newton is you let him be unique. Period. Why I wanted us to draft him. I'm not trying to play the IF he throws balls away instead of using his talent to make something happen it means he might play 3 more years or might miss less games or there is chance unicorns fly out of his rear.

Steve Young was unique and special. He was a fearless runner. Did he miss games bc it? Sure. But was it worth it? IMO, heck yeah.

What are you trying to accomplish?

[pstall]

The big bad stat for Cam far as I can see is when the Panthers are down 10 + points. He actually passes LESS and thus less td's.

He passes less also when they are ahead 10+ points.

 

Also, he gets sacked more when the team is behind 9 or more. in fact his qb rating is its worst at that stage. that is a killer one imo.

 

 

Cut down on the sacks when they are behind and play from in front and this team is hard to beat.

[CRA]

You were doing so well until this point. It didn't need to be said. You ruined a pretty good post by going there. JMO

You know me by now.....it happens.

It was an exaggeration to try to make a point.

[pstall]

I'm not trying to accomplish anything. Just explaining my stance on Cam

My preference with Newton is you let him be unique. Period. Why I wanted us to draft him. I'm not trying to play the IF he throws balls away instead of using his talent to make something happen it means he might play 3 more years or might miss less games or there is chance unicorns fly out of his rear.

Steve Young was unique and special. He was a fearless runner. Did he miss games bc it? Sure. But was it worth it? IMO, heck yeah.

What are you trying to accomplish?

Winning

 

You are being a fan and that's cool. I'm just as much a fan. But I know how to look beyond basic stats and data.

 

I'm saying he takes more sacks than he needs to and a sack is ALWAYS a negative play. Always. Then you have cost vs time vs field postion etc and it adds a whole new dimension.

 

You throwing out the 6.9 rushing stat tells me just about all I need to know on what you are looking at.

 

I take it you are not a fan of Moneyball or Freakonomics or quantitative analysis. lol

 

If the Panthers called me tomorrow I would get them to look at things they are overlooking and it would drastically change the outcomes.

But what do I know?

 

[CRA]

2013 vs 2011. 80 attempts over 30 yds in 2011 and just two td's. 2013 he threw 40 times. Half that amount and same td's.

Rushing he had 6 runs for 20 yds in 2011 and 9 in 2012 but dropped down to 2 over 20 yds plus last year.

However, most of his td's came within 1-10 yds in his rookie year, but he threw more last year and even more in the 20-30 yd range.

 

That tells me he runs more EFFECTIVELY, which means, spots and he is now throwing more td's in a smaller window but a more effective range of coverage because he is using his pocket to his advantage.

 

Rushing yards avg for a qb means nothing at the pro level to me.

 

Passing efficiency in the red zone in the 2 nd half and 3rd and long tell me more.

 

You should do some advanced analytics to remove yourself from what you think you know and you will see the game in an entirely different light.

 

Situational stats are an excellent metric.

Also means whacko Chud is gone and conservative game managing Shula is here.

I don't give a poo about yardage in the NFL. I think it is misleading stat too many people talk about...

[CRA]

Winning

 

You are being a fan and that's cool. I'm just as much a fan. But I know how to look beyond basic stats and data.

 

I'm saying he takes more sacks than he needs to and a sack is ALWAYS a negative play. Always. Then you have cost vs time vs field postion etc and it adds a whole new dimension.

 

You throwing out the 6.9 rushing stat tells me just about all I need to know on what you are looking at.

 

I take it you are not a fan of Moneyball or Freakonomics or quantitative analysis. lol

 

If the Panthers called me tomorrow I would get them to look at things they are overlooking and it would drastically change the outcomes.

But what do I know?

6.9 was brought up simply bc you stated opponents would prefer him to just be Cam and run. It was just a simplistic way of saying he wasn't being a one dimensional runner like I thought the post implied.

I never said he didn't take sacks that couldn't be avoided. Can't have it both ways though....that also removes a lot of chain moving plays he makes from the equation too. He has to throw those away too.

[pstall]

Also means whacko Chud is gone and conservative game managing Shula is here.

I don't give a poo about yardage in the NFL. I think it is misleading stat too many people talk about...

 

i think my work here is done. you have lots of homework to do.