Dave Newton-Outburst aside...Norman having a great camp

[micnificent28]

It's about pure athleticism.  Nothing about football.  It's all about confirming what you've seen on tape or spurring you to go back to watch tape to see if you've missed something.

 

If a guy performs well at the combine and the tape looks good, you've got a bonafide prospect.  If a guy looks good on tape but sucks at the combine, you need to go back and figure out if he's a guy who is going to translate to the NFL level.  If a guy doesn't look special on tape, but performs like a track star at the combine, you need to go back and look at the tape to see if there's a way you can utilize that guy's athleticism in your system.

 

THAT is the point of the combine.  Too many people get obsessed with the numbers one way or the other.  Some act like it doesn't matter at all, some act like it's the end all be all. Neither are accurate.  It's just a piece of the evaluation.  BUT, when we're talking about pure athleticism, it's about as close to the end all be all that we're gonna get.

 

THAT is why I say that Josh Norman is a below average athlete for an NFL CB. It has nothing to do with his skills or lack of skills on the field.  It's all to do with what he showed at the combine in the same condition as other prospects at his position.  Athletically, he's nothing special.

 

I m the biggest combine nut here,but I think we put a little to much faith in combine numbers. I saw dat thomas over his career and he looked like the fastest guy on the field in any game he was in. Come to the combine and he looked like he didn't have game breaking NFL speed so i soured on him. Well Come time to suit up and he looks like the fastest guy on the field again... I can't explain it other than game speed trumps clocked times. 

[TheRumGone]

 

he makes these kinds of plays in practice all the time. that's the athleticism people are talking about and have been excited about.

 

 

[LinvilleGorge]

I m the biggest combine nut here,but I think we put a little to much faith in combine numbers. I saw dat thomas over his career and he looked like the fastest guy on the field in any game he was in. Come to the combine and he looked like he didn't have game breaking NFL speed so i soured on him. Well Come time to suit up and he looks like the fastest guy on the field again... I can't explain it other than game speed trumps clocked times. 

 

Game speed can absolutely trump clocked times.  Clocked times don't take into consideration instincts and how well a player sees what's happening in front of him.  But, speed is speed,  Again, I was simply responding to a post talking about Norman's special athletic ability.  That special athletic ability is a myth.

[Thorrez]

Norman being this supreme physical talent is one of the biggest Panthers myths there is. Just about every single workout of his at the Combine was below average for an NFL CB. He was the top CB performer in broad jump for his class, but that was because the entire class was weak in that drill compared to the norm. He would've been tied for 9th in broad jump in this past CB class.

The numbers don't lie. Josh Norman is a below average athlete for an NFL CB.

Most guys are smart enough to employ great trainers to juice the combine numbers.

I do not think Norman was, so his numbers are a little too slow (he still lacks top end speed, but he is not as slow on the field as the combine numbers suggest)

[Kuech the Sneak]

he makes these kinds of plays in practice all the time. that's the athleticism people are talking about and have been excited about.

That's crazy, when was that?

[TheRumGone]

That's crazy, when was that?

Last year

[Kuech the Sneak]

I still can't believe in the guy until he shows something in regular season games, play within the scheme and make some plays

[LinvilleGorge]

Most guys are smart enough to employ great trainers to juice the combine numbers.

I do not think Norman was, so his numbers are a little too slow (he still lacks top end speed, but he is not as slow on the field as the combine numbers suggest)

 

Sure, most are.  What does that say about a guy who isn't?

 

Anyway, I've never seen anything from Norman on the field that says he's special athletically.  I think a lot fans see the INTs and fall in love, ignoring the blown coverages and mental lapses.  The truth of the matter is that a lot of INTs are as much luck as they are skill and technique.  Hell, Godfrey lived off of that.  Most of the fans that thought he was this great safety focused on his big plays while ignoring the fact that a lot of times his "big plays" came when he was horribly out of position and just fell backasswards into an INT when the QB made a terrible throw. 

[TheRumGone]

I still can't believe in the guy until he shows something in regular season games, play within the scheme and make some plays

that's exactly what everyone's been screaming for for 3 years. It's just not translating

[LinvilleGorge]

that's exactly what everyone's been screaming for for 3 years. It's just not translating

 

Yep.  His rookie season virtually all of us were excited with his training camp and preseason performance.  Then the regular season came and...

 

Last year, he looked great in training camp and preseason again.  Regular season came and...

 

Now, most seasoned fans are saying "put up or shut up".  He's looked okay in preseason and training camp so far, but not as good as he did in his first two years.  Why should we expect anything any different? 

 

At this point, I think the staff may be done with him.  He was a Hurney draft pick so it's no like they have any special ties to him.  IMO, Norman has two more games to definitively state that he deserves a roster spot.  He might wanna start by just shutting the fug up and playing instead of running his trap about making a play he's expected to make in an exhibition game.  That'd be a good start.

[DaveThePanther2008]

Lets make this perfectly clear.  Cutting him is not going to turn a light on or off. 

 

There are 31 other teams out there that will scoop him up with the idea they can do better.   The guy is a talent and if he ever finds the right scheme or finally understands the team concept (which I think he does) he is going to be a player in this league.

 

My take:  Rivera is pissed at his antics but he raved about him prior to that.  So Rivera see the potential.   A good leader doesn't give up on a man.  For the leader it is a sign of failure.   I think Rivera has gotten through to him and it is just a setback.

 

IMO Norman makes the 53 man roster.

[LinvilleGorge]

There's plenty of guys who hqve the talent to play in the NFL who are flipping burgers. If you're not willing to buy into the concept of the team and play within the system then you're not gonna make it in the league. So far. That's been Norman's biggest issue. Some Panther fans seem obsessed with this myth of his athleticism. It's a myth. It doesn't exist. The guy does seem to have a nose for the ball and that can't be taught. But, if he's not willing to buy into the team and play his role in the scheme then none of that matters. He's always been a hothead and so far that shows no signs of letting up. If it doesn't change, he's probably not gonna be here much longer.

Steve Smith may have been a hothead and may not have been the greatest locker room influence at times, but when it came to doing what was expected of him on the field, he was as reliable as they came.

[micnificent28]

Game speed can absolutely trump clocked times.  Clocked times don't take into consideration instincts and how well a player sees what's happening in front of him.  But, speed is speed,  Again, I was simply responding to a post talking about Norman's special athletic ability.  That special athletic ability is a myth.

I think his hands as a cornerback are special. I mean seriously has he ever droped a pick? usually if he's within range the ball is his... That's something i haven't seen In many cornerbacks. not saying I disagree with your opinion of him at all be cause ability as a athlete are about as special as mine...but, his hands are more In the upper class of NFL corners when going for the pick.

[Icege]

People still think that the combine accurately quantifies athleticism? o.O

Sent from my DROID RAZR using CarolinaHuddle mobile app