What do you guys make of the Cam haters still out there today?

[Davidson Deac II]

And here's a question related to that, the answer to which I know a lot of people won't like.

 

What changed for Cam between year two and year three?

 

We got Ted Ginn.  ;)

 

Oh, and that Shula guy. 

 

If that is indeed the point you are making, then I agree for the most part, although I think Cam got better/more experience.   And I am not sure if it was getting Shula, or getting rid of the other guy that made a bigger difference.  Or perhaps it was a combination of the two.  

[Mr. Scot]

We got Ted Ginn.  ;)

 

Oh, and that Shula guy. 

 

If that is indeed the point you are making, then I agree for the most part, although I think Cam got better/more experience.   And I am not sure if it was getting Shula, or getting rid of the other guy that made a bigger difference.  Or perhaps it was a combination of the two.  

 

I'm not a Shula hater like most here are, but for me it's more about dumping Chudzinski than promoting Shula.

 

[Razeyfingers]

And here's a question related to that, the answer to which I know a lot of people won't like.

 

What changed for Cam between year two and year three?

 

Im not a Shula supporter or hater. Im just a watcher in that respect at this point, but I must say, Scotty, just because Shula replaced Chud and we benefited doesnt mean we wouldnt have benefited more from someone else taking the spot.

 

I dont know either way. Continuity is important in my book so Im happy at the moment, but. . .as they say. . just sayin.

[Mr. Scot]

Im not a Shula supporter or hater. Im just a watcher in that respect at this point, but I must say, Scotty, just because Shula replaced Chud and we benefited doesnt mean we wouldnt have benefited more from someone else taking the spot.

 

I dont know either way. Continuity is important in my book so Im happy at the moment, but. . .as they say. . just sayin.

 

In this particular discussion, I'm not really comparing Shula to all options, just to Chudzinski.

 

Is there anyone on here who'd really rather have kept Chud?

 

[Razeyfingers]

In this particular discussion, I'm not really comparing Shula to all options, just to Chudzinski.

 

Is there anyone on here who'd really rather have kept Chud?

 

 

nope, understood

[FootballMaestro]

You can't put the whole win/loss record on Cam. I watched all the games, I assume you did as well, we know what happened.

 

The "progress" you speak of wasn't just with Cam. It was the team that had trouble finishing in 2011 and 2012, particularly the defense. Cam Newton and the offense gave the Panthers plenty of leads heading into the fourth quarter in both of his first two seasons.

 

Fast forward to 2013, the defense was much better not just overall, but at closing games. Cam improved, and the defense improved.

 

This is so true (your entire post as well), but so overlooked by many, including many so called Panther fans.

 

You can argue that was the number one reason why the Panthers lost games, as Newton had many would be game winning drives which disappeared as the defense gave up those late leads.

 

Just look at what the defense did early last year against Sucky Tampa Bay in the last 60 secs, mind you Atlanta in Atlanta. And That's with the defense ranked #2 last year. The previous two seasons, the defense blew about 3-4 late leads like that a year (non including Ron Ron's own blunders, and any Cam, Shula/Chud mistakes as well).

[Mr. Scot]

This is so true (your entire post as well), but so overlooked by many, including many so called Panther fans.

 

You can argue that was the number one reason why the Panthers lost games, as Newton had many would be game winning drives which disappeared as the defense gave up those late leads.

 

Just look at what the defense did early last year against Sucky Tampa Bay in the last 60 secs, mind you Atlanta in Atlanta. And That's with the defense ranked #2 last year. The previous two seasons, the defense blew about 3-4 late leads like that a year (non including Ron Ron's own blunders, and any Cam, Shula/Chud mistakes as well).

 

Ask yourself this: Why exactly was the defense always tired late in those games?

 

(hint: an offense that couldn't sustain drives had a lot to do with it)

 

It's a team sport, so no one person can really be held responsible, but it all fits together.  I'm not putting those losses entirely on Cam, but putting all the blame on the defense is just as improper.

 

Whether you wanna hear it or not, Cam fading late in games played a big role in those losses.

 

And realistically, none of that is unusual for a young QB.  I'm thankful he's improved.  Honestly, we all should be.

[RelaxImaPro]

Running backs who couldn't get a measly 2 yards late in those games was a huge factor as well.  Rivera always tried to run the ball at the end of games when we had a slight lead, and we'd usually go 3 and out and give the ball back to the other team.

[TheRed]

Nobody was putting the blame entirely on the defense. Simply pointing out the entire picture clearly. It was a team improvement.

[FootballMaestro]

Ask yourself this: Why exactly was the defense always tired late in those games?

 

(hint: an offense that couldn't sustain drives had a lot to do with it)

 

It's a team sport, so no one person can really be held responsible, but it all fits together.  I'm not putting those losses entirely on Cam, but putting all the blame on the defense is just as improper.

 

Whether you wanna hear it or not, Cam fading late in games played a big role in those losses.

 

And realistically, none of that is unusual for a young QB.  I'm thankful he's improved.  Honestly, we all should be.

 

Eh

 

I'm not buy that altogether. Sorry.

 

There were several games where the Panthers attained the lead late in the 4th quarter, and the Panther defense couldn't close it out. There's no excuses for what happened in Atlanta. Those were blown plays, and bad defensive orchestration/schemes, not a team that was tired.

 

Plus, I've seen many NFL defenses hold onto leads, regardless of what the offense was doing (which is one of the reasons, Andrew Luck is credited with so many game winning drives, as his "sucky" defense at least knew how to hold onto late leads compared to many of Carolina's better ranked defenses, as an example).

 

I do blame the defense (and Rivera), if I only had to pick one or two, though (as I mentioned) Chud/Shula, Rivera, and Cam, D'Angelo, etc. were to blame as well). No doubt.

 

Notice you blame Cam, while Harbarugh, Carroll, Shanahan's etc., put their QB's in positions to win, reduce their blame/spread it around the whole team? That only illustrates, Newton was placed in a position of more responsibility (a compliment), thus would take more of the blame.

[FootballMaestro]

Running backs who couldn't get a measly 2 yards late in those games was a huge factor as well.  Rivera always tried to run the ball at the end of games when we had a slight lead, and we'd usually go 3 and out and give the ball back to the other team.

 

Yup Yup

 

It was a confluence of things. And one of the mistakes Rivera made, was not playing to win, and trying to hold onto leads from the second quarter.

 

Ron Ron had a bad habit, that once he got a 2 TD lead, he would seemingly try to run out the clock, even from the 2nd quarter.

 

It was like a broken record, but the offense, or Cam would get the blame at the end (even when the defense couldn't hold the lead for one more drive). Sure Nuff!

[Mr. Scot]

Eh

 

I'm not buy that altogether. Sorry.

 

There were several games where the Panthers attained the lead late in the 4th quarter, and the Panther defense couldn't close it out. There's no excuses for what happened in Atlanta. Those were blown plays, and bad defensive orchestration/schemes, not a team that was tired.

 

Plus, I've seen many NFL defenses hold onto leads, regardless of what the offense was doing (which is one of the reasons, Andrew Luck is credited with so many game winning drives, as his "sucky" defense at least knew how to hold onto late leads compared to many of Carolina's better ranked defenses, as an example).

 

I do blame the defense (and Rivera), if I only had to pick one or two, though (as I mentioned) Chud/Shula, Rivera, and Cam, D'Angelo, etc. were to blame as well). No doubt.

 

Notice you blame Cam, while Harbarugh, Carroll, Shanahan's etc., put their QB's in positions to win, reduce their blame/spread it around the whole team? That only illustrates, Newton was placed in a position of more responsibility (a compliment), thus would take more of the blame.

 

Didn't really figure you would, given that you're a "Cam can do no wrong" guy.

 

At no point am I discounting other factors, just pointing out Cam's role in the losses.  And yes, he did have one.

 

The truth is the truth.  See it however you want to, but this is reality.

 

He's great, but whether you believe it or not, he isn't perfect. For most of us, 'great' is enough.

[FootballMaestro]

Didn't really figure you would, given that you're a "Cam can do no wrong" guy.

 

At no point am I discounting other factors, just pointing out Cam's role in the losses.  And yes, he did have one.

 

The truth is the truth.  See it however you want to, but this is reality.

 

He's great, but whether you believe it or not, he isn't perfect. For most of us, 'great' is enough.

 

I'm not a "Cam can do no wrong guy".

 

IF that's your simple retort from your inability to respond to facts, then I'll take that as a compliment.

 

Other posters have already chimed in, so you can read, challenge their responses.

 

They all mentioned the things I mentioned, but I'm glad you can only see Cam. You made the definitive statements.

 

Not surprised.

 

[Mr. Scot]

I'm not a "Cam can do no wrong guy".

 

IF that's your simple retort from your inability to respond to facts, then I'll take that as a compliment.

 

Other posters have already chimed in, so you can read, challenge their responses.

 

They all mentioned the things I mentioned, but I'm glad you can only see Cam. You made the definitive statements.

 

Not surprised.

 

 

Say you're not 'that guy'.  Prove it.

 

You tell me: Did Cam play badly and contribute to those losses in his first two seasons or not?

 

Yes or no only.  No spin doctoring allowed.

 

Try to spin it and you're as much as admitting I pegged you correctly.