Rookie Watch 2014 - A Promising Start

[HoFBound59]

Through the draft:

*denotes unproven but has potential as a starter.

 

Defense anchors (round):

Hurney Picks: Luke Kuechly(1), Thomas Davis(1), Greg Hardy(6), Charles Johnson(2).

Gettleman Picks: Star Lotulelei(1)

Winner: Hurney

 

Offense anchors (round):

Hurney Picks: Cam Newton(1), DeAngelo Williams(1), Ryan Kalil(2), Amini Silatolu(2)*

Gettleman Picks: Kelvin Benjamin(1)*, Trai Turner(3)*

Winner: Hurney

 

Free Agent anchors (Starting at position multiple seasons including 2014)

Hurney: Mike Tolbert, Greg Olsen, Byron Bell

Gettleman: Dwan Edwards

Winner: Hurney

 

While I did not care for Hurney as a GM and his lack of consistency in the NFL Draft, I dislike Gettleman even more. Gettleman has not done much to replace the foundation left by Hurney.

 

This is still Hurney's team. Gettleman has done little in 2 off-seasons to supplant what Hurney laid out. When I see Gettleman have free agents going to the Pro Bowl and banking key starters outside the 1st round, then we can talk. Gettleman has only improved the DT position and nothing else compared to Hurney's impact everywhere else. Gettleman has an opportunity with the OT, WR, OLB, and DB areas, but those are the constant areas to question even with Gettleman having 2 off-seasons under his belt.

 

Yes, Hurney was not great and messed up the draft several times. Hurney has still left a young foundation that is on the cusp of greatness. Do not award all of that to Gettleman. Will Gettleman give us any pro bowl picks in his first 3 off seasons? 1 more year to go to answer that question. Hurney gave the fans back to back rookie of the years and defensive player of the year. Not to mention all our pro bowl and all pro caliber players. Not Gettleman.

 

So, hush on this Gettleman butt love and Hurney hatred until he proves something more than mediocre talent and solid starters. Can he at least land a worthwhile free agent that stays on the team?

 

In all honesty, Gettleman does not even come close in his first two off seasons to the success Hurney had as a GM. Will Gettleman even come close to matching what Hurney did in his first two seasons as GM? Hurney replaced the former regime and drafted 6 key starters and brought in 4 key free agents which led to the 2003 Super Bowl. That is nearly replacing half of the core team, which Gettleman has not done in his first two off seasons. And 4 of the 10 Hurney brought in his first 2 off seasons went to the Pro Bowl.

 

Argue with those facts.

 

I can't believe this is a serious post. Comparing a guy who was here for years to a guy who is in his 2nd year, and has been substantially limited to what he can do because of the moronic actions of his predecessor. 

[FootballMaestro]

Through the draft:

*denotes unproven but has potential as a starter.

 

Defense anchors (round):

Hurney Picks: Luke Kuechly(1), Thomas Davis(1), Greg Hardy(6), Charles Johnson(2).

Gettleman Picks: Star Lotulelei(1)

Winner: Hurney

 

Offense anchors (round):

Hurney Picks: Cam Newton(1), DeAngelo Williams(1), Ryan Kalil(2), Amini Silatolu(2)*

Gettleman Picks: Kelvin Benjamin(1)*, Trai Turner(3)*

Winner: Hurney

 

Free Agent anchors (Starting at position multiple seasons including 2014)

Hurney: Mike Tolbert, Greg Olsen, Byron Bell

Gettleman: Dwan Edwards

Winner: Hurney

 

While I did not care for Hurney as a GM and his lack of consistency in the NFL Draft, I dislike Gettleman even more. Gettleman has not done much to replace the foundation left by Hurney.

 

This is still Hurney's team. Gettleman has done little in 2 off-seasons to supplant what Hurney laid out. When I see Gettleman have free agents going to the Pro Bowl and banking key starters outside the 1st round, then we can talk. Gettleman has only improved the DT position and nothing else compared to Hurney's impact everywhere else. Gettleman has an opportunity with the OT, WR, OLB, and DB areas, but those are the constant areas to question even with Gettleman having 2 off-seasons under his belt.

 

Yes, Hurney was not great and messed up the draft several times. Hurney has still left a young foundation that is on the cusp of greatness. Do not award all of that to Gettleman. Will Gettleman give us any pro bowl picks in his first 3 off seasons? 1 more year to go to answer that question. Hurney gave the fans back to back rookie of the years and defensive player of the year. Not to mention all our pro bowl and all pro caliber players. Not Gettleman.

 

So, hush on this Gettleman butt love and Hurney hatred until he proves something more than mediocre talent and solid starters. Can he at least land a worthwhile free agent that stays on the team?

 

In all honesty, Gettleman does not even come close in his first two off seasons to the success Hurney had as a GM. Will Gettleman even come close to matching what Hurney did in his first two seasons as GM? Hurney replaced the former regime and drafted 6 key starters and brought in 4 key free agents which led to the 2003 Super Bowl. That is nearly replacing half of the core team, which Gettleman has not done in his first two off seasons. And 4 of the 10 Hurney brought in his first 2 off seasons went to the Pro Bowl.

 

Argue with those facts.

 

Are you serious?

 

Did you expect GMan to get rid of the people he didn't bring in that were good? :startle:

 

Secondly, what about all the 1 year free agenst Gettlemen brought in? Do you think Hurney would have ever been able to manage that? I don't. And what about the Salary Cap figures, Hurney handicapped this team with (that counts biggie, and continues to handicap Gettle), which GMan is addressing now?

 

Plus, GMan's only been here two years, and in many ways (particulary with salary and free agents/UDA's, Philosophy/Belief) he's done more than Hurney has.

 

A GM's job is just not drafting by the way. :sleep:

 

[HoFBound59]

First, I was comparing the current roster only. I did not include the players who impacted the Panthers last season on the way to the playoffs, which would have made Hurney look even better. Even though Hurney is not here, those are still his players that are leading the Panthers to success. Gettleman did not replace what Hurney did, he sat back and enjoyed the ride in the team that Hurney built. You cannot argue with this.

 

Second, I already did a comparison of Hurney's first two off seasons against Gettleman's. It was at the end of the post. I knew people would say it is unfair to credit players from the current roster to Hurney because he was with the team longer. So, I showed how Hurney supplanted a team with new young talent that went all pro/Pro Bowl and a new Head Coach, and got them to the Super Bowl after his second off season. I showed how Gettleman inherited an entire team that was about to turn the corner, did little to bring in core franchise players in his first two off seasons, and acts more as a caretaker than an architect.

 

Gettleman needs to have Star, Benjamin, and Turner get into Pro Bowl contention, and have the Panthers winning in the playoffs and sniffing the Super Bowl to even keep up with Hurney at the same stage in their careers.

 

This is still Hurney's team until Gettleman replaces Hurney's players and coaches with better talent.

 

Wait.....so a new GM who replaces a former GM, still has a lot of the former GM's players 2 years down the road. You are right, we should have just cut every player on the team and let DG sign "his own players" so this could be "his team." Good Lord! Are we sure this isn't Marty posting on the huddle?

[FootballMaestro]

Wait.....so a new GM who replaces a former GM, still has a lot of the former GM's players 2 years down the road. You are right, we should have just cut every player on the team and let DG sign "his own players" so this could be "his team." Good Lord! Are we sure this isn't Marty posting on the huddle?

 

At least he knows, that's what the dumb ass Hurney would have done, if Gettleman would have left him some good players. Yeah, he would have gotten rid of them, so he could overpay some new ones that were his own. :sick:

[Navy_football]

Gettleman has and will continue to earn his money, not only through the draft, but through quality FA pick ups and contract negotiations that don't cripple the team. Big contracts will only be given to the correct players. Cam will be paid a king's ransom. He's more than a QB, he is truly becoming an icon of the NFL. So is Luke. Their current value exceeds their on-the-field play.

 

Guys like Stewart, DLo, and CJ really should never have been given the contracts they received. Love them all as players and as respectable young men, but Hurney crippled the franchise for years with their contracts. I think we'll see a lot more guys leave for greener pastures during Gettleman's tenure, but he'll continue to make smart, forward-thinking business decisions. Because unlike Hurney,  Gettleman is not afraid of losing any one player. He realizes there is a lot of talent in the NFL that aren't big names. Some players just aren't used correctly or in the right scheme.  And he has shown a remarkable ability to find them. 

[DaveThePanther2008]

First, I was comparing the current roster only. I did not include the players who impacted the Panthers last season on the way to the playoffs, which would have made Hurney look even better. Even though Hurney is not here, those are still his players that are leading the Panthers to success. Gettleman did not replace what Hurney did, he sat back and enjoyed the ride in the team that Hurney built. You cannot argue with this.

 

Second, I already did a comparison of Hurney's first two off seasons against Gettleman's. It was at the end of the post. I knew people would say it is unfair to credit players from the current roster to Hurney because he was with the team longer. So, I showed how Hurney supplanted a team with new young talent that went all pro/Pro Bowl and a new Head Coach, and got them to the Super Bowl after his second off season. I showed how Gettleman inherited an entire team that was about to turn the corner, did little to bring in core franchise players in his first two off seasons, and acts more as a caretaker than an architect.

 

Gettleman needs to have Star, Benjamin, and Turner get into Pro Bowl contention, and have the Panthers winning in the playoffs and sniffing the Super Bowl to even keep up with Hurney at the same stage in their careers.

 

This is still Hurney's team until Gettleman replaces Hurney's players and coaches with better talent.

 

One of the primary reasons we won the NFC South was because of the Stout DL that we had.  While Hurney gave us Hardy and Johnson. Gettleman in his first season gave us Short, Star, Cole to go along with Edwards.  If you remember the two DT after we drafted Cam were Duds.    Add in Ginn, Mitchell and the other Free Agents he rented for one year.  The 2013 club was more his than Hurney's. 

 

I would hope that after 10 seasons Hurney had a couple of remaining picks on the team.   You point out all those names that are on the squad.  Remove the 1st rounders.  After all any GM worth his salt should have most of his 1st rounders still on the team.  Hardy, Bell, Kalil, Godfrey.   Really who else?  Where are the Shelton's, Fua's, McClain's, Jarrett's and Clausen's that he drafted that bombed at a high price of a 2nd or 3rd rounder.   What about the Otah?   

 

Your love for Hurney is admirable but to imply this isn't Gettleman's team is insane.   His first priority was to identify who we were gonna keep and get rid of.  You could also argue that Williams, Stewart, Godfrey (until this off season) and even Johnson were kept on the team because their contracts that Hurney gave them were so screwed up we couldn't cut them if we wanted to. Furthermore, I would bet that part of the reason Gross left was part of Hurney's fault. Hurney would have NEVER kicked Steve Smith out the door.  Smitty could be using a walker and Hurney would not have cut him.  Finally, what is it, 14-15 Million is DEAD CAP SPACE.  You going to put that on Gettleman.   I will tell you what.  Had G'man had a clean slate this year.  We might have a roster that would scare a Pro Bowl team.

[FootballMaestro]

Gettleman has and will continue to earn his money, not only through the draft, but through quality FA pick ups and contract negotiations that don't cripple the team. Big contracts will only be given to the correct players. Cam will be paid a king's ransom. He's more than a QB, he is truly becoming an icon of the NFL. So is Luke. Their current value exceeds their on-the-field play.

 

Guys like Stewart, DLo, and CJ really should never have been given the contracts they received. Love them all as players and as respectable young men, but Hurney crippled the franchise for years with their contracts. I think we'll see a lot more guys leave for greener pastures during Gettleman's tenure, but he'll continue to make smart, forward-thinking business decisions. Because unlike Hurney,  Gettleman is not afraid of losing any one player. He realizes there is a lot of talent in the NFL that aren't big names. Some players just aren't used correctly or in the right scheme.  And he has shown a remarkable ability to find them. 

 

Fantastic Post!! :goodjob:

[C47]

It is realistic for the teams that go to the playoffs year in and year out, and go to the Super Bowl.

 

The teams that fail to have success, which is the majority of course, are the ones that make this look unrealistic. There is a correlation.

 

Wanna tell me how many snaps the Seahawks first two picks played last season? If it was so important, it would have been imperative that they played early as the Seahawks didn't even have a first rounder....

 

They also took Chris Harper, WR in the fourth round and despite not having Harvin available at the start of the season didn't feel it was necessary for him to stick around. 

 

It's great when your second, third and even fourth round picks can perform out the gate, but it's hardly necessary. 

[C47]

Is this guy serious? Good god man...

Hurney nearly bankrupted us and you dare compare him to G-Man? What you need is a hearty slap upside your head. Yes, Hurndog got us Cam, Keek, Tugboat, Kraken, TD, J-Stew, etc but that doesn't make up for his incompetence when arriving to contracts, analyzing and evaluating in-house talent, trading away picks for guys like Brown, cutting poo or declining personnel, etc.

Hurney wasn't a good GM. He was a decent judge of talent but that's about it. I hardly think Pro Bowls and a trip to Super Bowl (which shouldn't count by your own logic) is enough after enduring the miscues from him at the end.

 

 

You're arguing something completely different then whether or not Hurney was able to find "talent" past round one. It's already been established countless times that Hurney mismanaged contracts....

[philp]

Does that not change the point that three of the top five players on our team were Hurney drafted players outside of round 1? Unless you're trying to argue that Kalil, CJ and Hardy aren't talent I'm really not sure what was incorrect about me pointing out that Hurney did in fact find "talent" outside of round 1.

I could add more too...

Foster

Witherspoon

Anderson

Wharton

Hangartner

Mathis

Schwartz

King

And I'm sure there's some UDFA's in there you could add as well. Sorry, but Hurney found "talent" past round 1, and to say so is completely incorrect.

I'm please don't try to defend Hurney. He fugin blew. You will get a few every now and then.

[CPantherKing]

One of the primary reasons we won the NFC South was because of the Stout DL that we had.  While Hurney gave us Hardy and Johnson. Gettleman in his first season gave us Short, Star, Cole to go along with Edwards.  If you remember the two DT after we drafted Cam were Duds.    Add in Ginn, Mitchell and the other Free Agents he rented for one year.  The 2013 club was more his than Hurney's. 

 

Did any of the DT make the Pro Bowl? Did Star get defensive rookie of the year? Was any DT considered by their peers to be among the top of the NFL?

 

Under Gettleman, every player here is playing for a big contract somewhere else. That is the culture he is building. The Carolina Panthers are on their way to being a farm team for the top teams in the NFL. The 1 year free agents will lead to a replacement team in the future with no sustainable franchise players. Do you remember what the Saints were like? The Cleveland Browns? Do you really want to be the Jacksonville Jaguars?

 

All the Panthers impact players are on their way out the first chance they get.

[Mol3m4n]

Wanna tell me how many snaps the Seahawks first two picks played last season? If it was so important, it would have been imperative that they played early as the Seahawks didn't even have a first rounder....

They also took Chris Harper, WR in the fourth round and despite not having Harvin available at the start of the season didn't feel it was necessary for him to stick around.

It's great when your second, third and even fourth round picks can perform out the gate, but it's hardly necessary.

The Superbowl champs are the Superbowl champs for a reason. I'm sure you've heard it said countless times. They continually find talent outside of round 1. Hurney didn't.

Sent from my SCH-R970 using CarolinaHuddle mobile app

[C47]

The Superbowl champs ate the Superbowl champs for a reason. I'm sure you've heard it said countless times. They continually find talent outside of round 1. Hurney didn't.

Sent from my SCH-R970 using CarolinaHuddle mobile app

 

Why is everyone failing to grasp the original argument. The argument was that a player drafted in round two or three has to make an impact right away. That's just not true. 

[Snake]

If you want to consider that list you just rattled off as talent then sure go for it.

That list was very talented and you showed your ignorance with your post.