Underrated/Overrated

[weyco2000]

Nortman and Gano both played huge parts in last years success. Both helped our defense with field position, so the kickers get my under-rated vote.

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[updownsigma]

Basically, all I see is a bunch of numbers that look very similar. He throws more but also produces more yards, so I'm not sure how that matters. Your only argument that makes sense is that he throws more picks than Brady and Rodgers, but so does Manning and every other QB in the NFL. So if he produces better numbers than Manning, (although, he throws more) throws the same amount of picks as Manning and has a higher completion percentage on a slightly higher yards per attempt, why does Manning get to be mentioned with Brady and Rodgers and Brees doesn't?

2011 wasn't transcendent for Brees? 71.8% completion percentage, 5500 yards, 46 TDs and 14 picks? It's arguably one of the greatest statistical seasons for a QB of all time. Rodgers threw less picks that year. That was the only thing he did better. Although, he threw less picks on fewer attempts.

He's never broken a record that wasn't just a result of him just passing more. All those other QBs had all time great seasons while not throwing that much - they were just "better" than everyone else in the league. (I would give some stats like adjusted net yards/attempt that illustrate how great they were, but I'm on my phone ftl.) It's the same reason why I think most people would say Mannings 04 was greater than his 13. (He threw a TD on one out of every 10 passes in 04, which is still mind blowing.)

And you're flipping the argument around lol. My point was that Brees shouldn't be mentioned with Manning, Rodgers, and Brady. You basically concede that he's not as good as Brady and Rodgers and then ask me to justify why Manning deserves to be mentioned with that group. That's not the issue here, and if that's not a strawman then I don't know what is.

But, since you asked: I would say it's because Manning's career aggregate totals are higher, along with his 2004 and 2013. Although if Brees continues playing long enough and Manning retires soon, he could end up with a career similar to Manning's.

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[saints4life25]

He's never broken a record that wasn't just a result of him just passing more. All those other QBs had all time great seasons while not throwing that much - they were just "better" than everyone else in the league. (I would give some stats like adjusted net yards/attempt that illustrate how great they were, but I'm on my phone ftl.) It's the same reason why I think most people would say Mannings 04 was greater than his 13. (He threw a TD on one out of every 10 passes in 04, which is still mind blowing.)

And you're flipping the argument around lol. My point was that Brees shouldn't be mentioned with Manning, Rodgers, and Brady. You basically concede that he's not as good as Brady and Rodgers and then ask me to justify why Manning deserves to be mentioned with that group. That's not the issue here, and if that's not a strawman then I don't know what is.

But, since you asked: I would say it's because Manning's career aggregate totals are higher, along with his 2004 and 2013. Although if Brees continues playing long enough and Manning retires soon, he could end up with a career similar to Manning's.

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I never conceded that Brady and Rodgers were better. It was just your argument that Brees threw more interceptions than the other 3 and threw more so had inflated statistics. I did concede that both he and Manning (and everyone else) throw more picks than Rodgers and Brady. I also conceded that, all attempts equal, all of their statistics would be almost identical. So basically, I said they're all the same level of passer. I was just wondering why in your original post you said he threw more picks than all three, and then I pointed out he threw the same amount as Manning, so I wanted to know why you thought more of Manning than Brees. No straw man. Basically, it's because you discredit Brees statistics instead of just looking at them side by side with the others.

We're just going to have to agree to disagree. There's really no right or wrong answer here, as we're both strictly talking about opinions. I can throw out statistics all day and you can argue against them all day lol. It was nice to have an intelligent conversation though!

[Chaos]

RG3 is insanely overrated. 

 

Aside from the Panthers fan in me that agrees how underrated TD is, from an outsider's perspective it seems that Shady McCoy is underrated - he's an amazing runner.

[updownsigma]

I never conceded that Brady and Rodgers were better. It was just your argument that Brees threw more interceptions than the other 3 and threw more so had inflated statistics. I did concede that both he and Manning (and everyone else) throw more picks than Rodgers and Brady. I also conceded that, all attempts equal, all of their statistics would be almost identical. So basically, I said they're all the same level of passer. I was just wondering why in your original post you said he threw more picks than all three, and then I pointed out he threw the same amount as Manning, so I wanted to know why you thought more of Manning than Brees. No straw man. Basically, it's because you discredit Brees statistics instead of just looking at them side by side with the others.

We're just going to have to agree to disagree. There's really no right or wrong answer here, as we're both strictly talking about opinions. I can throw out statistics all day and you can argue against them all day lol. It was nice to have an intelligent conversation though!

Ok, I do see what you meant now. I initially said he threw more picks than Manning based off a guess, but they did turn out to be equal.

We will have to agree to disagree, but one last point: their stats wouldn't be equal, if you held their attempts equal:

TD %

Rodgers: 6.4

Manning: 5.8

Brady: 5.5

Brees: 5.3

Yards/Attempt:

Rodgers: 8.2

Manning: 7.7

Brees: 7.5

Brady: 7.5

(we already know the INT stats)

Yards/Completion:

Rodgers: 12.4

Brady: 11.8

Manning: 11.7

Brees: 11.4

So on a per pass basis he's either last or tied for last in every category. If he threw as many passes as the others did, he wouldn't have broken any records.

Sorry, just had to point that out before I finished. That being said, you make some good points about how Brees compares to the other 3, and he's a great QB for sure, but we will have to agree to disagree otherwise.

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[TheRumGone]

RG3 is insanely overrated.

Aside from the Panthers fan in me that agrees how underrated TD is, from an outsider's perspective it seems that Shady McCoy is underrated - he's an amazing runner.

Closest thing I've seen to Barry Sanders. I've never seen TD get juked so bad in my life.

Past couple of years shady has been my first round draft pick in fantasy. He's a beast

[saints4life25]

Ok, I do see what you meant now. I initially said he threw more picks than Manning based off a guess, but they did turn out to be equal.

We will have to agree to disagree, but one last point: their stats wouldn't be equal, if you held their attempts equal:

TD %

Rodgers: 6.4

Manning: 5.8

Brady: 5.5

Brees: 5.3

Yards/Attempt:

Rodgers: 8.2

Manning: 7.7

Brees: 7.5

Brady: 7.5

(we already know the INT stats)

Yards/Completion:

Rodgers: 12.4

Brady: 11.8

Manning: 11.7

Brees: 11.4

So on a per pass basis he's either last or tied for last in every category. If he threw as many passes as the others did, he wouldn't have broken any records.

Sorry, just had to point that out before I finished. That being said, you make some good points about how Brees compares to the other 3, and he's a great QB for sure, but we will have to agree to disagree otherwise.

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2 things jump out at me about those stats.

1. Rodgers has had an outstanding start to his career. I mean, those numbers are amazing. It'll be interesting to see if he can keep it up.

2. Take Rodgers out of the equation, because he blows all of their numbers away and he hasn't been doing it nearly as long as the other 3, and I see a bunch of numbers that are incredibly similar lol. I don't see much seperation at all. It's not like I'm arguing Brees is hands down better than Manning and Brady, I just think he's in the same category, and those numbers kind of back that up. There's hardly any seperation there at all. If anything, your numbers prove it's Rodgers and then everyone else lol.

[shelbypanther]

Overrated:

Kaeperprick  -  SF

Matthews  -  GB

Manning  - DEN (see playoff record)

 

Underrated:

Olsen  -  CAR

David  -  TB

Johnson  -  BUF

 

[updownsigma]

2 things jump out at me about those stats.

1. Rodgers has had an outstanding start to his career. I mean, those numbers are amazing. It'll be interesting to see if he can keep it up.

2. Take Rodgers out of the equation, because he blows all of their numbers away and he hasn't been doing it nearly as long as the other 3, and I see a bunch of numbers that are incredibly similar lol. I don't see much seperation at all. It's not like I'm arguing Brees is hands down better than Manning and Brady, I just think he's in the same category, and those numbers kind of back that up. There's hardly any seperation there at all. If anything, your numbers prove it's Rodgers and then everyone else lol.

True. If you wanted to make an argument against Rodgers it's that he's had the benefit of playing his entire career in the new pass-centeric NFL, unlike the other 3. If you look the top seasons for QB rating they've all been 2008-now. Not discrediting Rodgers, just pointing that out lol

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[saints4life25]

True. If you wanted to make an argument against Rodgers it's that he's had the benefit of playing his entire career in the new pass-centeric NFL, unlike the other 3. If you look the top seasons for QB rating they've all been 2008-now. Not discrediting Rodgers, just pointing that out lol

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Right. Like I said, it'll be interesting to see if he keeps it up and if other player start putting up numbers like his.