Cam ranked smack dab in the middle of QBs according to some league insiders

[rko396]

Ha! No one else would have had lint enough to pass last season. Every other quarterback (You could argue Big Ben MAYBE) would have been decimated in our pocket. I would have loved to see how Manning would do on our team, because I really doubt we go 8-8.

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Ya i agree. Im wasnt breaking down the play and seeing exactly which assignments were blown and what potential opportunities were there. I was just responding to that dude's post claiming ONE play means EXACTLY this one thing. Kaepernick isnt even in the ballpark in terms of skill as Cam, but that perfect jump throw Kap made vs the Seahawks in the playoffs was amazing. Never seen Cam do that. That doesnt mean Kap is better. In reality it's not even close.

I was just trying to calm that dude down. He calls out someone on here and ends his post with "next", like hes in some relay debate making amazing points no one ever thought of. Just saying if Cam throws for 3000 yrds and rushes for 800 more, thats essentially equal to someone throwing for 3800. Different oportunities present itself along the way, but the raw numbers are similar.

[TonyN]

Ha! No one else would have had lint enough to pass last season. Every other quarterback (You could argue Big Ben MAYBE) would have been decimated in our pocket. I would have loved to see how Manning would do on our team, because I really doubt we go 8-8.

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That's hilarious. I mean really. If Peyton Manning had been the Panther's starting QB last season, Carolina would very possibly have finished the regular season undefeated and almost certainly won the Super Bowl.

 

I am not even going to go to passing numbers (like the 55 TD's Manning threw last year being nearly equal to Newton's entire CAREER).

 

I am going to stick to your sack argument.

 

Remember the Super Bowl ??? Remember Manning being pressured on nearly every single drop back and the Broncos having absolutly no running game ??? How many times was Manning sacked ??? Once. And as "poorly" as he and the Broncos played, Manning still threw for 280 yards. How did Cam do against the same defense in the regular season ??? He threw for 125 yards and attempted only 4 passes deeper than 10 yards the entire day. Newton was also sacked once by the Seahawks, despite having fewer than half the passing attempts of Manning.

 

But, admittedly, this is a small sample size.

 

Here is a larger one: Manning has played in 15 NFL regular seasons. During that span he has NEVER been sacked more than 29 times and has averaged 18 sacks a season for his career.

 

Newton has played in 3 seasons. During that span he has NEVER been sacked FEWER than 35 times and has averaged 38 sacks a season for his career.

 

Manning has a career sack percentage of 3.1%

Newton has a career sack percentage of 7.2%

 

Of course, you will make the argument that Manning has played behind the greatest offensive line in NFL history for every one of his 15 years. This, of course, is absurd. Manning has played behind offensive lines that were good, average and some, especially late in his Indy career that were downright poor.

 

The secret???

 

Manning is not "Mr. Clutch".

He doesn't look at the opposing defense, see pressure and yet clutch the football and repeatedly put his team in bad situations by taking  unnecessary sacks.

 

He reads the defense and gets rid of the football.

 

[TheRed]

Oh so we're back to the completely false "Cam can't read defenses" argument?

[Mol3m4n]

That's hilarious. I mean really. If Peyton Manning had been the Panther's starting QB last season, Carolina would very possibly have finished the regular season undefeated and almost certainly won the Super Bowl.

I am not even going to go to passing numbers (like the 55 TD's Manning threw last year being nearly equal to Newton's entire CAREER).

I am going to stick to your sack argument.

Remember the Super Bowl ??? Remember Manning being pressured on nearly every single drop back and the Broncos having absolutly no running game ??? How many times was Manning sacked ??? Once. And as "poorly" as he and the Broncos played, Manning still threw for 280 yards. How did Cam do against the same defense in the regular season ??? He threw for 125 yards and attempted only 4 passes deeper than 10 yards the entire day. Newton was also sacked once by the Seahawks, despite having fewer than half the passing attempts of Manning.

But, admittedly, this is a small sample size.

Here is a larger one: Manning has played in 15 NFL regular seasons. During that span he has NEVER been sacked more than 29 times and has averaged 18 sacks a season for his career.

Newton has played in 3 seasons. During that span he has NEVER been sacked FEWER than 35 times and has averaged 38 sacks a season for his career.

Manning has a career sack percentage of 3.1%

Newton has a career sack percentage of 7.2%

Of course, you will make the argument that Manning has played behind the greatest offensive line in NFL history for every one of his 15 years. This, of course, is absurd. Manning has played behind offensive lines that were good, average and some, especially late in his Indy career that were downright poor.

The secret???

Manning is not "Mr. Clutch".

He doesn't look at the opposing defense, see pressure and yet clutch the football and repeatedly put his team in bad situations by taking unnecessary sacks.

He reads the defense and gets rid of the football.

So you're going to completely disregard that Manning had a better line than the Panthers (which was going on how many injuries)? How about the Broncos third receiver being as productive as our number one? You're telling me that our receivers are on par with theirs? What about the fact that Manning will throw the ball in the ground when he is pressured and Cam tries to create an amazing play. That's where your "miraculous"sack numbers are coming from.

P.s. To say the Broncos had no run game is idiotic.

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[TonyN]

Oh it's TonyN again. How cute.

 

Andy Dalton has put up 87 touchdowns in his first three seasons, but he's completely pedestrian? Are you high?

 

Green had 681 more yards (1,426 total, nearly double), and 7 more TD's (11 total) than Smith last season, and Dalton had a career year. Go figure huh? Dalton's #2 WR Jones even put up 712 yards and 10 TD's compared to Newton's #1 WR in Smith who put up 745, and 4 TD's.

 

Stay on your hiatus please.

 

 

Dalton and Newton both had "career years" when arguably surrounded by the best offensive talent they have played with.

 

Newton's production last year was putrid, with Carolina ranking 29th in the NFL in passing, so I am not sure where you are going with your straw man argument concrning Smith's production.

 

Newton's receiving corps in 2011 was every bit as good as Dalton's was last year. In terms of actual production, both players had almost exactly the same in the respective seasons, albiet with different styles.

 

Actually, in 2011 Carolina had the league's 3rd best rushing attack, averaging a whopping 5.4 yards a carry (Newton had 706 yards of that and averaged 5.6 YPC. Obviously, that year Carolina's running attack was VERY, VERY good...with the running backs averaging over 5 YPC). This was the year when the zone read was basically brought to the NFL. It was new...and many coaches were unprepared for it, especially early in the season.

 

Conversely, last season the Bengals had the NFL's 18th best rushing attack and averaged a putrid 3.6 YPC. Dalton put up carrer numbers with very little help on the ground.

 

As far as Dalton being "pedestrian", I absolutely believe that. So, apparently,  do the NFL coaches and personnel execs, as they have Dalton ranked as the 19th best QB in the same survery. 19th out of 32 is pretty much the definition of "pedestrian".

 

Actually, though Newton's running ability gives him the edge over Dalton overall, if you look closely at their progess, one could easily make the argument that Dalton is improving at a vastly superior rate. Dalton was a better passing QB last season than Newton has ever been.

 

I am going to return to my hiatus, of course. But when I saw Newton's ranking in the ESPN article, I knew lots of folks on this forum would get their panties in a wad. Of course Huddle members will claim the NFL coaches and Execs surveyed know nothing about football....

 

This place is good for a laugh now and then...

[Mol3m4n]

Dalton and Newton both had "career years" when arguably surrounded by the best offensive talent they have played with.

Newton's production last year was putrid, with Carolina ranking 29th in the NFL in passing, so I am not sure where you are going with your straw man argument concrning Smith's production.

Newton's receiving corps in 2011 was every bit as good as Dalton's was last year. In terms of actual production, both players had almost exactly the same in the respective seasons, albiet with different styles.

Actually, in 2011 Carolina had the league's 3rd best rushing attack, averaging a whopping 5.4 yards a carry (Newton had 706 yards of that and averaged 5.6 YPC. Obviously, that year Carolina's running attack was VERY, VERY good...with the running backs averaging over 5 YPC). This was the year when the zone read was basically brought to the NFL. It was new...and many coaches were unprepared for it, especially early in the season.

Conversely, last season the Bengals had the NFL's 18th best rushing attack and averaged a putrid 3.6 YPC. Dalton put up carrer numbers with very little help on the ground.

As far as Dalton being "pedestrian", I absolutely believe that. So, apparently, do the NFL coaches and personnel execs, as they have Dalton ranked as the 19th best QB in the same survery. 19th out of 32 is pretty much the definition of "pedestrian".

Actually, though Newton's running ability gives him the edge over Dalton overall, if you look closely at their progess, one could easily make the argument that Dalton is improving at a vastly superior rate. Dalton was a better passing QB last season than Newton has ever been.

I am going to return to my hiatus, of course. But when I saw Newton's ranking in the ESPN article, I knew lots of folks on this forum would get their panties in a wad. Of course Huddle members will claim the NFL coaches and Execs surveyed know nothing about football....

This place is good for a laugh now and then...

Go back under your bridge troll.

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[TheRed]

By the way, only someone with a clear agenda would try to make a comparison between Peyton Manning now 16 seasons in with Cam Newton only 3 seasons in. If you are going to attempt to do so, at least put up their numbers early in their careers against one another.

 

Cam:

 

First season: 4,757 total yards, 35 total touchdowns, 17 interceptions, 60.0 completion %, 7.8 yard average, 84.5 QB rating

Second season: 4,610 total yards, 27 total touchdowns, 12 interceptions, 57.7 completion %, 8.0 yard average, 86.2 QB rating

Third season: 3,964 total yards, 30 total touchdowns, 13 interceptions, 61.7 completion %, 7.1 yard average, 88.8 QB rating

 

Peyton:

 

First season: 3,801 total yards, 26 total touchdowns, 28 interceptions, 56.7 completion %, 6.5 yard average, 71.2 QB rating

Second season: 4,208 total yards, 28 total touchdowns, 15 interceptions, 62.1 completion %, 7.8 yard average, 90.7 QB rating

Third season: 4,529 total yards, 34 total touchdowns, 15 interceptions, 62.5 completion %, 7.7 yard average, 94.7 QB rating

[TheRed]

Dalton and Newton both had "career years" when arguably surrounded by the best offensive talent they have played with.

 

Newton's production last year was putrid, with Carolina ranking 29th in the NFL in passing, so I am not sure where you are going with your straw man argument concrning Smith's production.

 

Newton's receiving corps in 2011 was every bit as good as Dalton's was last year. In terms of actual production, both players had almost exactly the same in the respective seasons, albiet with different styles.

 

Actually, in 2011 Carolina had the league's 3rd best rushing attack, averaging a whopping 5.4 yards a carry (Newton had 706 yards of that and averaged 5.6 YPC. Obviously, that year Carolina's running attack was VERY, VERY good...with the running backs averaging over 5 YPC). This was the year when the zone read was basically brought to the NFL. It was new...and many coaches were unprepared for it, especially early in the season.

 

Conversely, last season the Bengals had the NFL's 18th best rushing attack and averaged a putrid 3.6 YPC. Dalton put up carrer numbers with very little help on the ground.

 

As far as Dalton being "pedestrian", I absolutely believe that. So, apparently,  do the NFL coaches and personnel execs, as they have Dalton ranked as the 19th best QB in the same survery. 19th out of 32 is pretty much the definition of "pedestrian".

 

Actually, though Newton's running ability gives him the edge over Dalton overall, if you look closely at their progess, one could easily make the argument that Dalton is improving at a vastly superior rate. Dalton was a better passing QB last season than Newton has ever been.

 

I am going to return to my hiatus, of course. But when I saw Newton's ranking in the ESPN article, I knew lots of folks on this forum would get their panties in a wad. Of course Huddle members will claim the NFL coaches and Execs surveyed know nothing about football....

 

This place is good for a laugh now and then...

 

Obviously players in the NFL disagree with you. They voted him 24th out of the top 100 NFL players this year.

[TonyN]

So you're going to completely disregard that Manning had a better line than the Panthers (which was going on how many injuries)? How about the Broncos third receiver being as productive as our number one? You're telling me that our receivers are on par with theirs? What about the fact that Manning will throw the ball in the ground when he is pressured and Cam tries to create an amazing play. That's where your "miraculous"sack numbers are coming from.

P.s. To say the Broncos had no run game is idiotic.

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Of course Manning had better overall talent last year than did Newton.

 

Manning also threw for 5,477 yards and 55 touchdowns with a paltry 10 interceptions and 18 sacks.

 

Newton threw for 3,379 yards (more than 2000 yards less than Manning), with 24 TD's (less than half that of Manning) with 13 ints and 43 sacks (once again over twice that of Manning despite having nearly 200 fewer passing attempts !!!).

 

Look at Mannings career. His sack numbers are incredible, and have remaind so for his entire 15 year career---that's a lot of different teams, with a many different make-up's, but one thing remains consistent: Manning doesn't get sacked.

 

As for Manning sometimes throwing the ball away while "Cam tries to create an amazing play"...you hit on part of the problem.

 

Incidentally, though Manning certainly does throw the ball away to avoid negative plays, he has a career completion percentage of 65.5 % compared to Newton's 59.8 %

 

By the way, I think comparing Newton to Manning is very unfair to Newton, although it is easy to see that by year 3 of their respective careers, Manning was clearly the better QB.

 

I wasn't the one who started the comparison.

[TheRed]

Well no poo Manning was a better passer coming out of college, he played 4 seasons at Tennessee, Cam played 1 season at Auburn.

[TonyN]

Obviously players in the NFL disagree with you. They voted him 24th out of the top 100 NFL players this year.

 

 

The QB gets way to much blame when the team loses and way too much credit when the team wins.

 

This is true even among their NFL peers

 

Especially when a team has a break through season fueled almost exclusively by the defense.

 

Incidentally, though I love Keek as a player---reminds me a little of John Offerdahl---ranking him as the NFL's 15th best player is also, IMHO, a big reach.

[Jangler]

By the way, I think comparing Newton to Manning is very unfair to Newton, although it is easy to see that by year 3 of their respective careers, Manning was clearly the better QB.

 

I wasn't the one who started the comparison.

 

and yet you are doing it, even taking time to get stats for your posts.

 

 

[TonyN]

Well no poo Manning was a better passer coming out of college, he played 4 seasons at Tennessee, Cam played 1 season at Auburn.

 

Actually Manning struggled his first NFL season.

 

But by year 3 he was CLEARLY one of the best QB's in the league.

 

By year 3, college experience is irrelevant to an NFL QB.

[TonyN]

 

and yet you are doing it, even taking time to get stats for your posts.

 

 

 

 

I am doing it because another member started the comparison and made the ludicrous statement that the Panthers would have gone 8-8 with Manning as their QB last year. I mean, I realize this forum is notorious for the gross hyperbole of its memebers, but some nonsense just has to be answered.

 

Happy 4th of July everyone...I gots beer to drink ...