Vince Young will be in the Hall of Fame

[King Taharqa]

Well, he won't make it in Nashville either, if we're talking about the HOF.

As for Vince himself, I've already congratulated him on his play and success. He has definitely played his part. I like seeing a beat down player rise up and be successful. However, I'm not going to annoint any QB as anything after some good games, see Jay Cutler for my own bias. I know, I know, he's white.

I give you props for being a good sport about this thread. As a mod you've been fair, even though this thread has sorta backfired.

[Mr. Scot]

I dont teach them that. Some of the biggest opportunities Ive gotten in my life have come from white folks. But I will let them know there are whites out there who dont think black people can lead or do better than them in anything. There are whites out there who will tell their kids to be great and that they have infinite potential, then turn around and sell black kids short EVERYTIME because they dont believe in them like they do their own kids.

Will you also tell them that there are black people who believe everything revolves around race, or will you just let them figure that out for themselves by watching you?

Here's some good advice that you probably won't listen to. My dad told me lots of things about black people. My own experience with black classmates taught me how wrong he was. Because of that, not only did I not take on his beliefs, but I lost a large measure of the respect I had for him.

Of course, I'm sure you'll tell yourself that won't happen to you because, after all, you're right about those white people.

I'm sure my dad probably told himself the same thing :nonod:

And thats basically what you got here with this QB racket. No one believed in Vince. Even after the promising start to his career and taking his team to the playoffs, you see how easy it is for the football world to give up on a black QB after 1 bad half of football? Peyton Manning went 3-13 his rookie year and threw more INTs than TDs. Did people give up on him? Did they say "hey this guy doesnt have it lets go with his backup"? No! They were patient with him and said "hey we believe this guy is gonna turn it around, he's our guy!". Thats where we have to get with black QBs. I'll be happy when they get that "undying love" and "support" that a Delhomme gets for losing a Super Bowl, and Favre gets for winning 1 15 years ago.

People didn't believe in Vince Young because he had a meltdown of biblical proportions, both on the field and off. Peyton Manning never had anything close to that, but another guy did. A fellow by the name of Ryan Leaf.

The "football world" had no patience with Leaf, either. Unlike Young, however, Leaf never straightened himself out and his career disintegrated. And there are plenty of other examples (Tim Couch, Eric Crouch, Chris Weinke, etc) of white QBs whom the football world gave up on. It had everything to do with the quality of the brains inside their skulls, not the skin color covering the outside.

Everything thats gone down with this scenario I predicted happening back in April and people laughed. Whats obvious is if I dont make threads praising McNabb and Vince, they dont get made. On the flipside when Vick does something bad or JaMarcus Russell is stinking it up, I trust we WILL hear about it. I dont trust Steve Young or Ron Jaworski or Merril Hodge to say anything positive about black QBs and if they do its half hearted. I do trust they're gonna blow Peyton Manning & Brees every chance they get and tell us how anything is possible when it comes to them.

If you've never heard Jaworski, Young or Hoge say anything positive about black QBs, you must not watch or listen to ESPN very much. Young, especially, was one of Vick's biggest apologists before he went to prison.

But I'm sure you choose not to hear any of that

ESPN goes nuts on Manning, Brady, Favre and Brees for one great big reason, and it isn't because they're white. It's because they're the most successful QBs in the game right now. They're also cover Romo plenty because he plays for the Cowboys, but it ain't all good. And yeah, ESPN has given plenty of good press to McNabb, and also to Vince Young since he took over the Titans.

They've also given plenty of bad press to Jake Delhomme, Kerry Collins, Derek Anderson, Jay Cutler and JaMarcus Russell. Why? Because they've deserved it, regardless of their skin color, bad is bad. Plenty of negative stuff gets said about both black and white QBs when they're stinking it up on the field, but you always assume the negative stuff about the black ones is based on their skin color.

Grow up

My guess is you'll likely spend the rest of your life with this persecution complex about black QBs, and anytime they fail you'll just say it was because of racism. Bull$#@&. The truth is as many QBs fail as succeed, regardless of color.

If they can read a defense, make good decisions, throw accurate passes and inspire his teammates, they'll succeed, regardless of what else they can or can't do, and regardless of what color their skin might be.

If they can't do those things, then nothing on this earth will turn them into a professional quarterback, and being athletic won't help them any more than being white will.

[King Taharqa]

People didn't believe in Vince Young because he had a meltdown of biblical proportions, both on the field and off. Peyton Manning never had anything close to that, but another guy did. A fellow by the name of Ryan Leaf.

How dare you compare Vince Young to the #1 bust of all time Ryan Leaf. What an insult. Leaf never put up the #s, won the amount of games, or took his team as far as Young has gone with the Titans. More proof you have no objectivity or vision when it comes to the ability of black QBs. Wouldnt shock me if you scout QBs for the Panthers. Meltdown of biblical proportions? Hurting your knee in Week 1 of a football season is a meltdown of biblical proportions? How bout quitting on your football team in MIDSEASON and setting a franchise back a couple of years because you're a fug up that couldnt live up to the hype. Mr. Scot believed in Kerry "I quit" Collins more than he did Vince Young. Its that lack of belief that is entrenched in the Panthers front office and has prevented and will prevent a black QB from ever being drafted or groomed to step up and be the leader of this team.

The "football world" had no patience with Leaf, either. Unlike Young, however, Leaf never straightened himself out and his career disintegrated. And there are plenty of other examples (Tim Couch, Eric Crouch, Chris Weinke, etc) of white QBs whom the football world gave up on. It had everything to do with the quality of the brains inside their skulls, not the skin color covering the outside.

None of those guys you named are as good as Vince Young. Its the same story with you Scot. Bringing up the same failures and never beens who never did nothing and tryna compare them to black QBs who've won awards and playoff games and say there's balance. You compare Eric "never did poo" Crouch to Mike Vick. Chris Weinke to Vince Young? ROFL. Please man.

ESPN goes nuts on Manning, Brady, Favre and Brees for one great big reason, and it isn't because they're white. It's because they're the most successful QBs in the game right now. They're also cover Romo plenty because he plays for the Cowboys, but it ain't all good. And yeah, ESPN has given plenty of good press to McNabb, and also to Vince Young since he took over the Titans.

ESPN slammed Young all this offseason with misquotes and headlines and helped spread the "suicide" rumor. ESPN is the network Rush Limbaugh was working for when he made his comment about McNabb and they also were right there adding fuel to the "start Kolb" fire when Don got benched last year. By no means are they saints, and their talking heads always are biased and apologists towards SUPERSTAR white QBs even in failure. This is the same network that dickrides Favre no matter how many training camps he skips and January meltdowns he has.

My guess is you'll likely spend the rest of your life with this persecution complex about black QBs, and anytime they fail you'll just say it was because of racism. Bull$#@&. The truth is as many QBs fail as succeed, regardless of color.

But franchises like the Panthers are more willing to give a sorry white QB a shot then a good black one. You cant say that for any other position on the football field. I dont make excuses for bums, so stop making excuses for a league with a long rich history of shortchanging black QBs. Panthers WONT EVEN DRAFT ONE!!!!!!! But they'll draft Stefan Lefors & Chris Weinke. Its a joke man. When the Panthers do stuff like that, they make a mockery of the NFL QB position and make the whole league look bad. Having Moore & Feeley as window dressing and marketing tools with no intent of ever using them is a joke and sets the entire NFL back. "Good ole boy" garbage. Image over talent. Being safe instead of being hungry.

If they can read a defense, make good decisions and throw accurate passes, they'll succeed, regardless of what else they can or can't do, and regardless of what color their skin might be.

And if they cant read a defense, make shitty decisions and cant throw accurately, they can still get a 42 million dollar extension and a cult following of apologists. Only one condition....

If they can't do those things, then nothing on this earth will turn them into a professional quarterback, and being white won't help them.

It will increase their odds of having a QB roster spot on the Carolina Panthers.

[PhillyB]

DB is not the most important position on the football field, and its that lack of white guys playing a skill position like DB or RB that has so many so overprotective of them playing the starring role on the football field, QB. So thanks for proving my point PhillyB.

are you angry at the lack of hispanics and asians playing at skill positions in the NFL?

[X-Clown]

And thats basically what you got here with this QB racket. No one believed in Vince. Even after the promising start to his career and taking his team to the playoffs, you see how easy it is for the football world to give up on a black QB after 1 bad half of football? Peyton Manning went 3-13 his rookie year and threw more INTs than TDs. Did people give up on him? Did they say "hey this guy doesnt have it lets go with his backup"? No! They were patient with him and said "hey we believe this guy is gonna turn it around, he's our guy!". Thats where we have to get with black QBs. I'll be happy when they get that "undying love" and "support" that a Delhomme gets for losing a Super Bowl, and Favre gets for winning 1 15 years ago.

Again, I'll say that your point does have some validity. However, don't forget that in Vince's second season that while his team did make the playoffs, he didn't play as well as he did in his rookie season. 12 Total TDs vs. 20 Total Turnovers with a 71.1 rating. It's realistic also to say that the Titans would not have even made the playoffs had the Colts not decided in Week 17 that with the #2 seed locked up to bench Manning for the game in the second quarter. And fairly or unfairly, it was Collins who came off of the bench in that game (due to Vince's injury) and guided the Titans who were trailing to the points that provided the margin of victory. Not saying that Vince couldn't or wouldn't have done the same thing but just stating the facts. As for the playoff game, his playoff performance against the Chargers didn't inspire confidence given that the defense didn't allow a single point in the first half and held LT to something like 2 yards per carry.

I'll be happy when they get that "undying love" and "support" that a Delhomme gets for losing a Super Bowl, and Favre gets for winning 1 15 years ago.

Look no further than Steve McNair. Nashville loved him while he was playing and still loves the guy for what he did on the field despite what was uncovered about his life after the tragedy this summer. I can't blame Titans fans for being mad at Vince last year after he tried to tell Fisher that he didn't want to go back in the game after throwing his second INT. Their fans watched McNair bust his tail for years playing with a myriad of injuries including a torn calf muscle in a playoff game.

What I find interesting is seeing Panther fans last year defend Collins as a good option for the Titans. And praise his stability as a QB. Those are the same people who even when Collins was 0-3, 0-4, 0-5 THIS YEAR swore he was the better option. To my knowledge Kerry Collins is the only QB in Panther history to quit on the team, join a division rival in the same season, and split the Panthers lockerroom amongst racial lines. Even with all that, its easier to praise him and proclaim him a "real QB" even at 35 in the twilight of his career, then to see the potential in a 1st round black QB with athletic gifts. If the Panthers ever do get the courage to draft a black QB and he quits on the team 1 day, I dont think 10 years later we'll still have Panthers fans rooting for him and thinking of him as a "stable QB".

I hated Collins for years because of that - but to his credit Kerry Collins in 2008 was not the same punk kid that he was in 1997. He grew up a lot after he left the Panthers and even played in a Superbowl. I can't say that I "root for him" but I don't despise him as much as I once did.

I don't think people were ever doubting Vince's "potential" as much as they were about where his head was after the shirtless drunken pictures surfaced online and then the story about the potential suicide. Vince himself has come out and said that since the benching that he "grew up".

[King Taharqa]

are you angry at the lack of hispanics and asians playing at skill positions in the NFL?

Tell me sir, what arent you willing to do protect the QB position. How far are you willing to go to make sure it stays 95% white? You got teams like that Panthers who've never drafted a black QB and have only had 1 to ever get significant playing time in 15 years. So basically, the Panthers have had just as many white RBs as they've had black QBs and have had more white WRs in their history. Those are 2 positions that have a HUGE lack of white players playing. Yet, the Panthers can scour the earth and find them when they have to. They just cant seem to find a black QB worth drafting. Institutionalized racism baby! Ya gotta love it!

[thefuzz]

Dear KT,

Is it ok for me not to want The Golden Calf of Bristol in a Panthers uniform next season? I hate the way he plays QB, and don't know how successful he will be in the pros, but he is white, so I am just asking.

Thanks,

thefuzz

[thefuzz]

Tell me sir, what arent you willing to do protect the QB position. How far are you willing to go to make sure it stays 95% white? You got teams like that Panthers who've never drafted a black QB and have only had 1 to ever get significant playing time in 15 years. So basically, the Panthers have had just as many white RBs as they've had black QBs and have had more white WRs in their history. Those are 2 positions that have a HUGE lack of white players playing. Yet, the Panthers can scour the earth and find them when they have to. They just cant seem to find a black QB worth drafting. Institutionalized racism baby! Ya gotta love it!

Which black QB would you have had them draft?

I want specifics.

[King Taharqa]

Again, I'll say that your point does have some validity. However, don't forget that in Vince's second season that while his team did make the playoffs, he didn't play as well as he did in his rookie season. 12 Total TDs vs. 20 Total Turnovers with a 71.1 rating. It's realistic also to say that the Titans would not have even made the playoffs had the Colts not decided in Week 17 that with the #2 seed locked up to bench Manning for the game in the second quarter. And fairly or unfairly, it was Collins who came off of the bench in that game (due to Vince's injury) and guided the Titans who were trailing to the points that provided the margin of victory. Not saying that Vince couldn't or wouldn't have done the same thing but just stating the facts. As for the playoff game, his playoff performance against the Chargers didn't inspire confidence given that the defense didn't allow a single point in the first half and held LT to something like 2 yards per carry.

Vince definitely struggled his 2nd year. Most young QBs do. Thats still not a valid reason to act like the guy is trash. Matt Ryan is struggling RIGHT NOW, he's not playing too hot. I cant even tell you his backups name though. Its that patience he's getting, Vince WASNT.

Look no further than Steve McNair. Nashville loved him while he was playing and still loves the guy for what he did on the field despite what was uncovered about his life after the tragedy this summer. I can't blame Titans fans for being mad at Vince last year after he tried to tell Fisher that he didn't want to go back in the game after throwing his second INT. Their fans watched McNair busting his tail for years playing with a myriad of injuries including a torn calf muscle in a playoff game.

McNair is definitely still popular in Nashville. I just wish it could've ended better there. I mean the head coach & owner banning him from practice and calling security to escort him from the premises? The Titans owed him more than that. The Titans owed McNair an opportunity to mentor Vince Young his protege, I think VY would've benefited from that. Since McNair has passed away Vince has been apart of his kids life and has publicly stated he is taking a "big brother" role when it comes to them and will be there for them. Another sign of the maturity has gotten from what's gone down the past year.

I hated Collins for years because of that - but to his credit Kerry Collins in 2008 was not the same punk kid that he was in 1997. He grew up a lot after he left the Panthers and even played in a Superbowl. I can't say that I "root for him" but I don't despise him as much as I once did.

Collins got the chance to grow up and has been given several starting opportunities since then. I wish I could sit here and say if David Garrard or Josh Freeman quit on their team and pulled some of the stunts Collins pulled they could bounce back and be given the multiple starting jobs Collins has, but they wont. And they'll never be seen as "stable" options after that.

I don't think people were ever doubting Vince's "potential" as much as they were about where his head was after the shirtless drunken pictures surfaced online and then the story about the potential suicide. Vince himself has come out and said that since the benching that he "grew up".

People on this very board called him a "bust". I vividly recall Fiz telling me the Titans win in spite of Vince and that he shouldnt get credit for winning the majority of his games. Then he turned around and blew Cutler. LOL. Vince grew up, but for different reasons. Vince learned what being a black QB in the NFL is all about last year. He thought poo was sweet until then. I remember his rookie year he did an interview saying all QBs are the same and that he didnt agree with the statement Don McNabb made about black QBs getting hated on. Well, he's since changed his tune. He now sees whats at stake and understands as a black QB you cant be out there folding up like a bitch or losing games. Because you will be replaced in a millisecond. He now understands he's not gonna get that long leash that a Cutler or a David Carr might get. He has to win IMMEDIATELY. And he's responded with 4 straight.

[King Taharqa]

Which black QB would you have had them draft?

I want specifics.

The Panthers passed on Pat White just last year. Jason Campbell & David Garrard are 2 starting black QBs the Panthers have passed up on in drafts. Both of those guys could help our team RIGHT NOW and would be a better option than the QB we currently have. The front offfice and management wont bring one in though for fear of being called "liberal".

[PhillyB]

The Panthers passed on Pat White just last year. Jason Campbell & David Garrard are 2 starting black QBs the Panthers have passed up on in drafts. Both of those guys could help our team RIGHT NOW and would be a better option than the QB we currently have. The front offfice and management wont bring one in though for fear of being called "liberal".

so race should be a determining factor in the front office's draft decisions, then.

[thefuzz]

The Panthers passed on Pat White just last year. Jason Campbell & David Garrard are 2 starting black QBs the Panthers have passed up on in drafts. Both of those guys could help our team RIGHT NOW and would be a better option than the QB we currently have. The front offfice and management wont bring one in though for fear of being called "liberal".

I wouldn't have drafted Pat White either. We would have to essentially have given up a 1st for him.

Jason Campbell came out a season after Jake had one of his best ever, throwing for almost 4,000 yards and 29 TD's and 15 ints. And without Smith to boot. Why would we spend a no.1 on a guy that had just had a Pro Bowl season, and was 29 years old?

David Garrard is the only one that would have even made sense, but many teams passed on him before going in the 4th. And didn't we have a starting black QB at that time?

Lets just keep right on calling the FO of the panthers racist....it may stick at some point.

[King Taharqa]

I wouldn't have drafted Pat White either. We would have to essentially have given up a 1st for him.

Better value than essentially giving up a 1st on a situational pass rusher that couldve been had later. The guy they did end up gambling on hasnt exactly lit the world on fire in regards to what was given up for him. Its all about value. The Panthers dont value black QBs at all. Wont even draft one. Its the whole, "hey Im not against it, just not in my backyard" thing going on.

Jason Campbell came out a season after Jake had one of his best ever, throwing for almost 4,000 yards and 29 TD's and 15 ints. And without Smith to boot. Why would we spend a no.1 on a guy that had just had a Pro Bowl season, and was 29 years old?

Because you always look to the future. The Packers had Brett Favre and still drafted Aaron Rodgers. The Eagles picked up Kolb, even though they have McNabb. The Vikings went to the playoffs with Tavaris Jackson and still brought in Rosenfels and Favre. Its our reactionary philosophy and laziness that has this franchise in the predicament theyre in now. Not addressing QB, that falls on the owner and management.

David Garrard is the only one that would have even made sense, but many teams passed on him before going in the 4th. And didn't we have a starting black QB at that time?

That starting black QB wasnt that good. Which is why our FO wasted no time searching for his replacement and sitting him on the pine after 1 bad half of football. Just because we have one doesnt mean anything. Pittsburgh has 2 black QBs. Tampa has 3. Philly has 2. Not to mention the fact Jacksonville drafted and started Leftwich over Garrard for YEARS. They didnt say oh ONE is enough. You put the best player out there. Its gotta be more than window dressing and pretty boys.

Lets just keep right on calling the FO of the panthers racist....it may stick at some point.

The Panthers FO puts the best talent on the field at all positions regardless of race except QB. Thats the one position where politics is as much apart of things as talent. The Panthers FO are not trailblazers or men of genius when it comes to the advancement of the QB position. They're gonna go with the status quo when it comes to QBing and have a bad track record when it comes to giving black athletes an opportunity at that position. They have a rich history of bums, washouts, and mediocre QB play. There are alot of positive things the Panthers and their ownership can be proud of and hang their hat on, but that is definitely not one of em, and I personally hope they are embarassed by it.

[thefuzz]

Better value than essentially giving up a 1st on a situational pass rusher that couldve been had later. The guy they did end up gambling on hasnt exactly lit the world on fire in regards to what was given up for him. Its all about value. The Panthers dont value black QBs at all. Wont even draft one. Its the whole, "hey Im not against it, just not in my backyard" thing going on.

Because you always look to the future. The Packers had Brett Favre and still drafted Aaron Rodgers. The Eagles picked up Kolb, even though they have McNabb. The Vikings went to the playoffs with Tavaris Jackson and still brought in Rosenfels and Favre. Its our reactionary philosophy and laziness that has this franchise in the predicament theyre in now. Not addressing QB, that falls on the owner and management.

That starting black QB wasnt that good. Which is why our FO wasted no time searching for his replacement and sitting him on the pine after 1 bad half of football. Just because we have one doesnt mean anything. Pittsburgh has 2 black QBs. Tampa has 3. Philly has 2. Not to mention the fact Jacksonville drafted and started Leftwich over Garrard for YEARS. They didnt say oh ONE is enough. You put the best player out there. Its gotta be more than window dressing and pretty boys.

The Panthers FO puts the best talent on the field at all positions regardless of race except QB. Thats the one position where politics is as much apart of things as talent. The Panthers FO are not trailblazers or men of genius when it comes to the advancement of the QB position. They're gonna go with the status quo when it comes to QBing and have a bad track record when it comes to giving black athletes an opportunity at that position. They have a rich history of bums, washouts, and mediocre QB play. There are alot of positive things the Panthers and their ownership can be proud of and hang their hat on, but that is definitely not one of em, and I personally hope they are embarassed by it.

Didn't agree with the Brown pick then, and don't now. However I think that he will be a better NFL player than Pat White.

Favre was getting very long in the tooth, and they thought that Rodgers was a steal for where they were getting him...pretty easy choice.

McNabb has been banged up many times in his career, so they grabbed Kolb.

Jackson is just flat out not good...IMO, and neither is Rosenfels.

And for the record, this team has had a horrible time trying to find a QB, but I don't think that if we had just drafted any black QB along the way, that we would be any better....thats just crazy talk.

P.S. I don't care about any other team and their QB situation.