Vince Young will be in the Hall of Fame

[King Taharqa]

Rodney Peete?

He was here from 2002-04

Following a 1-15 year, as soon as he could be replaced he was. Since that time, every team in the NFC South has drafted a black QB except the Panthers. Who have never drafted 1. So with Peete in the mix, that means the Panthers QB stable has been 96% white. Instead of the 99.9% I was hollaring. Forgive me Panthers front office for the error.

[PanthersFanNY]

King T is insane.

[Dingo_ate_Babies]

Just stop :troll:

[X-Clown]

Following a 1-15 year, as soon as he could be replaced he was. Since that time, every team in the NFC South has drafted a black QB except the Panthers. Who have never drafted 1. So with Peete in the mix, that means the Panthers QB stable has been 96% white. Instead of the 99.9% I was hollaring. Forgive me Panthers front office for the error.

So everything would have been okay if like the Saints, we had drafted Adrian McPherson who right now is a backup quarterback in the CFL? I see this as more of an indictment that the Panthers haven't tried to draft a quarterback at all over the past few years (outside of Stefan LeFors).

[King Taharqa]

So everything would have been okay if like the Saints, we had drafted Adrian McPherson who right now is a backup quarterback in the CFL? I see this as more of an indictment that the Panthers haven't tried to draft a quarterback at all over the past few years (outside of Stefan LeFors).

Im not saying everything would be OK. But for a team that NEVER drafts black QBs and has only had 1 out of 20+ in their history, the Panthers and their fans sure are well schooled on the limitations and downside of having a black QB on their roster. The Panthers have never shown they have the ability to rally behind a black QB with intentions of being the "guy". Even increasing the franchises win total by 6 wins wasnt enough to keep the Panthers from looking for Peete's replacement IMMEDIATELY. A QB who had NEVER started in the NFL and was backing up the great Aaron Brooks. Despite that, they believed in Jake, and put him in a position to take the reigns from Peete. And dont get me wrong, Peete sucked and it was absolutely the right thing to do, but why cant they do that with a black QB? What Ive been discussing is NOTHING new. I know people want to think its just me. Come to Charlotte, NC. Go to any barbershop, mall, sports bar, etc and talk Panthers football and black QBs and you'll hear the same thing. "The Panthers want a white boy to be the star", "the owner wont cut Jake because he's fuging his daughter", "the Panthers front office is a joke" "they should've got Vick" these are the things I hear OVER AND OVER AND OVER when I tell people Im a Panthers fan. The Panthers owner and their management have a reputation locally that they'd rather be known as losers than liberal.

[Mr. Scot]

Im not saying everything would be OK. But for a team that NEVER drafts black QBs and has only had 1 out of 20+ in their history, the Panthers and their fans sure are well schooled on the limitations and downside of having a black QB on their roster.

They drafted Jerry Colquitt, a black quarterback out of Tennessee, in 1995 (sixth round) but he didn't make the final roster.

They didn't draft a QB of any color again until 2001 when they drafted Chris Weinke in the fourth. They went QB again with Randy Fasani in the fifth round the following year, then waited three more years before drafting Stefan Lefors in the fourth of 2005. They haven't drafted any QB since.

As far as the regular roster, the Panthers have had three black quarterbacks on the squad for a year or more:

Dameyune Craig (1998-2001)

Rodney Peete (2002-2004)

Rod Rutherford (2004)

Peete, of course, was named the primary starter the year he was signed. He went in as the presumed starter the following year - despite practically no playing time in the preseason due to injury - but was benched after a half of awful play.

So in 14 years, a total of only five QBs drafted - including original starter Kerry Collins - and one black QB. Two others came in as undrafted. That's 20% in the draft, which I'd be willing to bet stacks up pretty well across the league.

Also worth noting that the Panthers coaching staff under Fox is one third black, with five black coaches out of fifteen assistants (DC Ron Meeks, DL coach Brian Baker, DB coach Ron Milus, defensive QC Sam Mills III, and RB coach/assistant head coach Jim Skipper). The defensive coaching staff is predominantly black, with only LB coach Richard Smith and DB coach Mike Gillhammer being white.

Yeah, what a bunch of racists

Not big on checking facts, are you? :nonod:

(probably wise, since they tend to get in the way of your argument)

[King Taharqa]

As far as the regular roster, the Panthers have had three black quarterbacks on the squad for a year or more:

Dameyune Craig (1998-2001)

Rodney Peete (2002-2004)

Rod Rutherford (2004)

Craig & Rutherford saw no significant game time PT EVER. Lets make sure to state that before we state how long they were in Carolina. They were never offered playing time or contracts with the idea that they would be starters for Carolina. Listing them is so disingenius to this argument. Ill give you credit though, if you were talking to someone who wasnt a fan back then, you'd probably get away with listing them. But I was here and remember how those guys got absolutely no PT and contributing nothing to the Panthers. Did the Panthers offer Peete an extension for helping them to 6 more wins than they had the year before? Or did they look for a guy to replace him IMMEDIATELY? Ill say it again, the Panthers have never shown the ability to rally behind a black QB as their "guy" long term. Atlanta drafted and rallied behind Vick for 5 years and made him the highest paid QB in the league, NO won their first playoff game behind Aaron Brooks and gave him a contract to show their appreciation. Tampa drafted Josh Freeman this year and has 3 black QBs on their active roster right now (more than Carolina has had in 15 years). The Panthers? 0.

[Mr. Scot]

Craig & Rutherford saw no significant game time PT EVER. Lets make sure to state that before we state how long they were in Carolina. They were never offered playing time or contracts with the idea that they would be starters for Carolina. Listing them is so disingenius to this argument. Ill give you credit though, if you were talking to someone who wasnt a fan back then, you'd probably get away with listing them. But I was here and remember how those guys got absolutely no PT and contributing nothing to the Panthers. Did the Panthers offer Peete an extension for helping them to 6 more wins than they had the year before? Or did they look for a guy to replace him IMMEDIATELY? Ill say it again, the Panthers have never shown the ability to rally behind a black QB as their "guy" long term. Atlanta drafted and rallied behind Vick for 5 years and made him the highest paid QB in the league, NO won their first playoff game behind Aaron Brooks and gave him a contract to show their appreciation. Tampa drafted Josh Freeman this year and has 3 black QBs on their active roster right now (more than Carolina has had in 15 years). The Panthers? 0.

Dameyune Craig saw time in six games, throwing eight passes in one game. Randy Fasani, by contrast, played in four games, starting one, that being the only game in which he passed much. Brett Basanez only saw action in one game, and Stefan LeFors never saw the field at all in the regular season.

For the record, Craig's six game appearances actually put him ahead of not just guys like Basanez and Lefors, but also past backups Jack Trudeau, Steve Bono, Jim Harbaugh, Shane Matthews, Tim Hasselbeck, Matt Lytle and Jay Barker in the "playing time" department. He's ahead of current backup A J Feeley, who hasn't seen the field, as well.

At this point, Craig is even ahead of IR'd QB Josh McCown, who's only played in 3 games and who has actually thrown fewer passes as a Panther than Craig did (6 vs 8). He's just one game shy of a tie with Jeff Lewis. Heck, even Frank Reich only played in 3 games, albeit all 3 as the starter. After Jack Trudeau was ineffective, Collins took over and Reich never saw the field again.

If you want to look only at guys who got significant playing time, then we're left with a much smaller pool of QBs:

Jake Delhomme, 90 starts

Steve Beuerlein, 51 starts

Kerry Collins, 42 starts

Chris Weinke, 20 starts

Rodney Peete, 15 starts

Started games, but less significant:

Vinny Testaverde, 6 starts

David Carr, 4 starts

Matt Moore, 3 starts

So here again, you have only five QBs with double digit starts for the Panthers. And, same as the draft numbers, one in five is black.

But hey, don't let the facts get in your way

(I shouldn't bother saying that; you usually don't)

[King Taharqa]

Dameyune Craig saw time in six games, throwing eight passes in one game. Randy Fasani, by contrast, played in four games, starting one, that being the only game in which he passed much. Brett Basanez only saw action in one game, and Stefan LeFors never saw the field at all in the regular season.

Translation: Dameyune Craig NEVER started for the Carolina Panthers, but saw mop up duty as a 3rd string QB. Randy Fasani DID get a start, and saw more action than Craig did in his 4 years here as a perennial practice squader. To put it in perspective, Randy Moss has just as many passing attempts as a WR in his career than Craig had in 4 years as a QB for the Carolina Panthers. What a joke.

For the record, Craig's six game appearances actually put him ahead of not just guys like Basanez and Lefors, but also past backups Jack Trudeau, Steve Bono, Jim Harbaugh, Shane Matthews, Tim Hasselbeck, Matt Lytle and Jay Barker in the "playing time" department. He's ahead of current backup A J Feeley, who hasn't seen the field, as well.

4 of those games Craig played WR/HB hybrid and did not attempt a single pass. He was a poor man's "Slash" in 2000, anyone that was around back then would've remembered that. Lytle played in 3 games AS A QUARTERBACK, 1 more than Craig and actually STARTED a game, something Craig NEVER did in his 3-4 years in Carolina. And you accuse me of not having my facts straight? LOL. Try again Scotty.

At this point, Craig is even ahead of IR'd QB Josh McCown, who's only played in 3 games and who has actually thrown fewer passes as a Panther than Craig did (6 vs 8). He's just one game shy of a tie with Jeff Lewis. Heck, even Frank Reich only played in 3 games, albeit all 3 as the starter. After Jack Trudeau was ineffective, Collins took over and Reich never saw the field again.

So again Dameyune Craig, undrafted practice squader who hasnt suited up for Carolina in over 8 years is proof that the Panthers believe in black QBs? His 8 passes are a testament that they wanted him to be their guy and saw a future with him as a starter? As stated before, he played in 2 games as a QB which would put him behind McCown, behind Lewis, behind Reich. All of those guys were given more opportunities AS QUARTERBACKS than Craig.

If you want to look only at guys who got significant playing time, then we're left with a much smaller pool of QBs:

Jake Delhomme, 90 starts

Steve Beuerlein, 51 starts

Kerry Collins, 42 starts

Chris Weinke, 20 starts

Rodney Peete, 15 starts

Started games, but less significant:

Vinny Testaverde, 6 starts

David Carr, 4 starts

Matt Moore, 3 starts

So here again, you have only five QBs with double digit starts for the Panthers. And, same as the draft numbers, one in five is black.

And thats enough for you? So let me get this straight. The Panthers brought in a semi-retired 36 year old Rodney Peete, the Panthers drafted a black QB no one has ever heard of 15 years ago in the 6th round that did not make the final roster. And in your opinion in 15 years of football that is proof positive that the Panthers believe in black QBs just as much as they do white QBs and would have no problem annointing him as the "guy"? Why no mention of Rutherford? Oh yeah thats right, he never saw a minute of game time in 04, he was also an undrafted practice squad player.

I dont know why you mentioned all those coaches in your other post. Unless Skipper and the gang have the power to greenlight a black QB on our roster why even mention them in this discussion? It was never "the Panthers dont hire black people" hell despite what you believe it wasnt even "the Panthers are a racist organization". It was "the Panthers have never drafted or brought in a black QB with the intent of being their guy". It was "the Panthers are far behind their NFC South brethren when it comes to giving black QBs a chance to start and contribute on their team." It was "the Panthers will give a sorry white QB a chance before they'd give a good black one one".

All I can tell you is research HARDER next time and get your facts correct before you accuse someone else of the same.

[Dingo_ate_Babies]

OH NOES The panthers have only drafted 5 Qbs in team history and only 1 was black! What a travesty! They've been so oppressed!

Stop complaining.

:smilielol5:

[King Taharqa]

OH NOES The panthers have only drafted 5 Qbs in team history and only 1 was black! What a travesty! We've been so oppressed!

Stop complaining.

:smilielol5:

We have been oppressed by Basanez, Weinke, Carr, Lewis, and Lefors shitty QB play. They all have helped this organization to become the joke it is when it comes to QBing. I said it before, Dingo Ate Babies would rather be known as a loser, than a liberal.

[Dingo_ate_Babies]

We have been oppressed by Basanez, Weinke, Carr, Lewis, and Lefors pooty QB play. They all have helped this organization to become the joke it is when it comes to QBing. I said it before, Dingo Ate Babies would rather be known as a loser, than a liberal.

wait...I thought liberal and loser were kinda the samething. :driving:

[King Taharqa]

wait...I thought liberal and loser were kinda the samething. :driving:

You thought Vince Young was a bust too. :frown2:

[Dingo_ate_Babies]

You thought Vince Young was a bust too. :frown2:

did I say that somewhere? have fun finding it.