so IF we draft McBuckets at #9....

[Dorian Gray]

With those pooty QBs everyone WR on that team looks like they suck.  So they keep drafting WRs and then complain about them, but it is because their OC and QBs both suck.  When the Jets were the team that drafted him I knew he was doomed.  :(

 

But, I also remember the time a large number of people told me Cam Newton wasn't worthy of the #1 overall pick, and was going to be a bust because he wasn't going to be able to run as well in the NFL, and he played in a gimmick offense that was "nothing" like an NFL offense, and he was a terrible passer, and that his game would not translate to the NFL.  He is a one trick pony  Etc, etc

 

Which is funny because this debate has evolved in very similar fashion.  I was only defending McDermott because I thought the people who just automatically wrote this guy's NBA potential off were being stupid.  Say what you want about McD, you don't score 27 ppg at 55 fg% 45% 3fg% in the MVC or Big East without being pretty fugging good at basketball and not a one trick pony.  To say otherwise is just plain stupid. 

 

And that was the only point I set out to make, much like when I was defending Cam when people were so determined to tell people they knew he was going to bust and set the franchise back 5 years and everyone will regret it. 

 

But the same thing kind of happened with McDermott that happened with Cam.  I would go and study his games, and do stats analysis to see if what you guys were saying was true.  And the more I studied him, the less and less of his criticisms are actually true, much like when I really kept diving into studying Cam, most of his criticisms weren't true.

 

He struggles against length... no he doesn't

He isn't athletic... yeah he is

He played a weak schedule... no he didn't

He played against small opponents... no he didn't

He doesn't create his own shots... yeah he did

 

 

The thing you haven't figured out yet is I haven't said anything about how great McDermott is going to be in the NBA.  Because I don't know.  Neither do you.  You are adamant about how much he sucks.  I just point out that there is reason to believe you are wrong.  There is also reason to believe that the criticisms against his offensive game are unfair.

 

Unlike you, I actually don't think I already know it all.  McDermott may very well bust.  He may also become an all-star.  That is true of nearly every draft pick.  Even sure fire picks sometimes don't work out. Sometimes players that have a bunch of questions that push them to the 2nd round ends up being great players like Paul Milsap, Monta Ellis, Stephen Jackson, Antonio Davis, etc.

 

I simply try to be fair to the player, either way.  I am usually not a negative person that roots for people's failures.  I will have questions, but you will hard pressed to find me being too critical of any player.  That is because I used to be a basketball player and the people who are the most critical usually don't know what they are talking about.

 

Honestly, I am a lot like Gruden.  I kind of like everyone, and rarely have a strong opinion in the negative.  If I recall the only two people I was pretty strongly against one of my teams drafting, it was Blaine Gabbert and MKG.  Thank God we didn't draft Gabbert, but as soon as we drafted MKG I became a believer and his biggest defender, yet some of his biggest supporters before the draft are trying to already run him out of town. 

 

You may end up being right.  He may end up not having a very productive NBA career.  If he flames out and fails I hope that makes you feel good.  You can come back and tell me how smart you are, and how I should have listened to you.  But trust me, you don't know what they hell you are talking about.  If he fails or succeeds it doesn't mean you know something that no one else does.  It just mean you happened to guess right.

 

[MCC]

I think McDermott will do fine in the nba. Not sure he becomes a star, but I highly doubt he becomes a bust. He's too efficient offensively. He even stood out to coaches and players when called up for the Olympic team.

Sent from my iPhone using CarolinaHuddle

[ThinkAboutIt]

He "struggled" to 27.3 ppg.  lololol

 

30, 39, 25, & 15 points with a field goal percentage of 57%

 

But they all sucked.

 

How did he do against Villanova.  They have some length and some talented wing players.  They went 29-5.  He must have struggled against them right??  Oh, he averaged 32 ppg against them,  Hmmm

 

Let's see there is Providence, they have two 6-9 forwards, a  7 foot center that plays, and another 6'6 strong bodied forward.  Surely that length cut him down.  Nope.  He dropped a cool 45 points on those guys.  That is to go along with 21 points and 27 points he scored on them the other 2 games they played

 

Xavier had a front line with 6'10, 6'9, and 6'8 that played a bunch.  Maybe that stopped him.  Oh he scored 35 and 27 points on them?  Never mind.

 

That is 11 games... should I keep going??  I mean they only played 35 games, I'm already through a third of the teams that all had decent length.

 

Let's see.... Arizona State had a 7'2 center that is the all-time blocks leader in Pac-12 history, and was #1 in the nation in blocked shots.  That surely got him.  Nope.  He scored 27 that game.

 

Umm, DePaul had a rotation of 6'10 6'10 6'9 and 6'8.  He scored a cool 35 and 32 on those guy

 

 

Okay I really will stop now. 

 

The great irony is, that the ONLY team he struggled against last season was Georgetown.  One of the smallest teams in the Big East conference.  He also had a piss poor game against George Washington early in the season but I count that as much of an outlier as I do Hood's 2-10 performance against Mercer and Stauskas 1-5 performance against Massachusetts-Lowell.  Just pooty days

 

Those were the only three bad games he had all season.  One of those bad games he still mustered up 22 points but shot a low FG% so I count it against him.

 

Again, McD had only 4 games last season where he had a sub .400 fg%.  Stauskas had 11 games where he shot below .400

 

Stats don't mean too much.

 

Sincerely,

Most lottery picks in the history of the NBA

 

You need a better eye. McDermott is as slow as molasses, way too unathletic, and when he goes up against NBA-caliber talent, he will struggle at both positions he is projected at. The videos show that just going up against scrubs. His overall numbers in those games are irrelevant because, again, he was going up against lesser players than he will be at the next level, and he wasn't as good when defended by athletic scrubs as he was when shooting wide open shots.

 

As usual, you won't believe it until you see it.

[MedellinHeel]

Stats don't mean too much.

 

Sincerely,

Most lottery picks in the history of the NBA

 

You need a better eye. McDermott is as slow as molasses, way too unathletic, and when he goes up against NBA-caliber talent, he will struggle at both positions he is projected at. The videos show that just going up against scrubs. His overall numbers in those games are irrelevant because, again, he was going up against lesser players than he will be at the next level, and he wasn't as good when defended by athletic scrubs as he was when shooting wide open shots.

 

As usual, you won't believe it until you see it.

 

How was he rated as the 12 or 14th most athletic player in the draft?

[MadHatter]

Stats don't mean too much.

 

Sincerely,

Most lottery picks in the history of the NBA

 

You need a better eye. McDermott is as slow as molasses, way too unathletic, and when he goes up against NBA-caliber talent, he will struggle at both positions he is projected at. The videos show that just going up against scrubs. His overall numbers in those games are irrelevant because, again, he was going up against lesser players than he will be at the next level, and he wasn't as good when defended by athletic scrubs as he was when shooting wide open shots.

 

As usual, you won't believe it until you see it.

 

Yet he graded out as one fo the most athletic players in this year's draft class at the combine.

 

Thanks for playing.

 

Damnit Meddlin....you beat me to it.

[teeray]

Stats don't mean too much.

 

Sincerely,

Most lottery picks in the history of the NBA

 

You need a better eye. McDermott is as slow as molasses, way too unathletic, and when he goes up against NBA-caliber talent, he will struggle at both positions he is projected at. The videos show that just going up against scrubs. His overall numbers in those games are irrelevant because, again, he was going up against lesser players than he will be at the next level, and he wasn't as good when defended by athletic scrubs as he was when shooting wide open shots.

 

As usual, you won't believe it until you see it.

 

I don't understand your point.  He shot a lower percentage when he wasn't open??  Welcome to the world of basketball.  Contested shots will have a lower % than open shots

 

Oh, and there have been studies on this.  It is true stats like PPG do not really matter but efficiency does.  Efficiency in college tends to carry over to the NBA, which is why I tend to focus on FG% 3FG% FT% because they are better predictors of future NBA success than just simply PPG.

[teeray]

I like Draft Express a lot.  In my opinion they do the best job in the NBA draft draftnik world.  I don't always agree with them, but they do great work.

 

And their scouting report on McD is about the same as my own, and may better articulate how I feel about McD:

 

McDermott was born to score, as its something he simply has an unbelievable knack for. He is the fifth best all-time leading scorer in NCAA history, and indeed led the nation in that category in each of the past two seasons. McDermott's scoring rate is impressive not just in the context of the past few years, as his exploits this season ranks him as the best per-40 minute pace-adjusted major-conference scorer in the DraftExpress database, which dates back to 2001.

What's perhaps most impressive about McDermott is that he's not just a volume scorer, he's also tremendously efficient—his percentages: 57% 2P%, 45% 3P%, along with just 1.8 turnovers per game, are sparkling. Its virtually unprecedented to see a player score at the rate he does, and still remain that efficient. His true shooting percentage was 65% this season, third best among draft prospects (behind Stauskas and Embiid), but he carried a significantly heavier usage role than either, which makes his efficiency all the more impressive.

As a junior and sophomore, his true shooting percentage was even higher, at 68% both years, while he still managed to score over 28 points per-40 minutes pace adjusted. He's the only player in our database to accomplish that feat since 2001 even once, let alone twice.

 

The area of McDermott's game that will translate most seamlessly to the NBA, right off the bat, without any questions asked, is his perimeter shooting ability. He has flawless shooting mechanics, deep release, and an incredibly quick release, to go along with deadly accuracy, as evidenced by his 49%, 49% and 45% 3-point shooting percentages the past three seasons. Catch and shoot, off the dribble, coming off a screen, you name it, McDermott can do it all from the perimeter. He knows how to create space, as he has multiple release points on his jumper and is as aggressive a scorer as you'll find, but still has impeccable shot-selection, often passing up good looks knowing he'll get better opportunities later in the shot-clock.

McDermott is more than just a one-dimensional shooter, as he gets his points in variety of ways, be it running the floor in transition, posting up thanks to his excellent footwork, driving to the basket with his left or right hand, or moving off the ball intelligently and diving to the paint with terrific timing. Only around 40% of McDermott's points in the half-court at the college level came off jumpers. He was surprisingly versatile with his ability to get to the free throw line and score inside the paint and from the mid-range as well. He converted a sky-high 67% of his attempts around the basket, so it will be very interesting to see how the non-shooting elements of his game translate to the NBA. He added new elements to his game every year in college, played with great intensity night in and night out, and should see even more things open up for him in the NBA with better teammates around him and less defensive attention.

On the downside, McDermott's average athleticism raises plenty of question marks about how his game will translate. He's a below the rim player who makes a living operating as a mismatch threat from the power forward position, and also doesn't have very long arms, which could hurt his finishing ability and defensive potential.

Is he quick enough to guard small forwards? Or big and strong enough to handle power forwards? That's the question every team picking in the mid to late lottery will be asking. He posted a career total of 34 steals and 15 blocks in 4636 minutes of action at Creighton, a historically poor rate, and also isn't a great rebounder. He is a very aware and competitive defender in space, but he could very well end up being a target of opposing coaching staffs in isolation situations if he proves to be unable to stay in front of his matchup on the perimeter.

McDermott will need to be drafted to the right team and coaching staff if he's to reach his full potential, as the question of situation and fit will be a big key. He played for his father at Creighton, so there could be somewhat of a transition for him in that regard as well. Will his new coach be willing to accept his limitations as a defender and utilize his versatility and skill-level offensively enough to make up for wha the gives up on the other end of the floor?

To McDermott's credit, he's proven to be an extremely hard worker who has added new things to his game and improved every year in college. He appears to be an extremely smart and unselfish teammate who did not let the incredible amount of attention he got in his college career go to his head and change the way he play, which bodes well for his NBA future. He was one of just two college players invited to USA Basketball's senior team mini-camp last summer where he competed with the cream of the crop of NBA players, and more than held his own according to all reports, upping his draft stock significantly in the process.

Matchups against the likes of Villanova, San Diego St., Baylor, Arizona St., Nebraska, George Washington, Providence, Xavier and others have given us ample opportunity to evaluate McDermott's very defined strengths and weaknesses as a prospect, which we've done in the following video scouting report, courtesy of Mike Schmitz.

 

 

 

 

 

[JJman]

5 all time in scoring in NCAA history, yet some people act like he can't ball.

[WOW!!]

LOL at saying "Other than shooting the ball, he's not great at anything else." That's the entire point. We need shooters. He can shoot. That's like going to a restaurant and saying, "Other than tasting good, this food doesn't do anything else for me." Completely dismissing the area he excels in is a terrible argument.

We need more then just a shooter. When you go into the draft looking for one attribute then you get a bench warmer. A specialist instead of a player who could potentially start and be a cornerstone for your team.

What we really need is a player that can be the 1st , 2nd or 3rd best point producers on the team on most nights. Kemba is the only guy on the peremeriter who can create his own shot or get a shot for other teammates. This will hold us back from taking the next step to being a championship contender. Just getting a shooter still puts us in the slow offensive position mode. When team jump on Kemba and get the ball out of his hands. We need a player who can not only shoot well but run the offense when teams take out Kemba. It would also fit our coach to have a player who could play solid or at least avg. 1 on 1 defense. We already have 2 starting position on the court where we have to hide/help a lacking defender. You add another bad wing defender on the court with Al and Mcbob it show cases their flaws.

[Omega Atrocity]

Just to add to this a little bit. We need more than just a shooter. We had that last year, his name was Anthony Tolliver.

[Dorian Gray]

We need more then just a shooter. When you go into the draft looking for one attribute then you get a bench warmer. A specialist instead of a player who could potentially start and be a cornerstone for your team.

 

What makes you think he couldn't start or be a cornerstone for the team?  You're just making stuff up...you have no idea if that's the case.  You're guessing and stating it as a fact.

 

This entire argument has been...

 

teeray - Using actual stats and metrics to make a case for McDermott.

 

You - "HE SUCKS BECAUSE I SAID SO!  STATS AND ATHLETICISM EVALUATIONS MEAN NOTHING!"

 

Your arguments have already been disproven by teeray multiple times.  I'm not sure why you're keeping this up.  We get it.  You have an irrational hate for Doug McDermott.  Great.  It's unclear why, but if you're not even willing to admit the guy's strengths then there's nothing else to say.

[WOW!!]

With those pooty QBs everyone WR on that team looks like they suck. So they keep drafting WRs and then complain about them, but it is because their OC and QBs both suck. When the Jets were the team that drafted him I knew he was doomed. :(

But, I also remember the time a large number of people told me Cam Newton wasn't worthy of the #1 overall pick, and was going to be a bust because he wasn't going to be able to run as well in the NFL, and he played in a gimmick offense that was "nothing" like an NFL offense, and he was a terrible passer, and that his game would not translate to the NFL. He is a one trick pony Etc, etc

Which is funny because this debate has evolved in very similar fashion. I was only defending McDermott because I thought the people who just automatically wrote this guy's NBA potential off were being stupid. Say what you want about McD, you don't score 27 ppg at 55 fg% 45% 3fg% in the MVC or Big East without being pretty fugging good at basketball and not a one trick pony. To say otherwise is just plain stupid.

And that was the only point I set out to make, much like when I was defending Cam when people were so determined to tell people they knew he was going to bust and set the franchise back 5 years and everyone will regret it.

But the same thing kind of happened with McDermott that happened with Cam. I would go and study his games, and do stats analysis to see if what you guys were saying was true. And the more I studied him, the less and less of his criticisms are actually true, much like when I really kept diving into studying Cam, most of his criticisms weren't true.

He struggles against length... no he doesn't

He isn't athletic... yeah he is

He played a weak schedule... no he didn't

He played against small opponents... no he didn't

He doesn't create his own shots... yeah he did

The thing you haven't figured out yet is I haven't said anything about how great McDermott is going to be in the NBA. Because I don't know. Neither do you. You are adamant about how much he sucks. I just point out that there is reason to believe you are wrong. There is also reason to believe that the criticisms against his offensive game are unfair.

Unlike you, I actually don't think I already know it all. McDermott may very well bust. He may also become an all-star. That is true of nearly every draft pick. Even sure fire picks sometimes don't work out. Sometimes players that have a bunch of questions that push them to the 2nd round ends up being great players like Paul Milsap, Monta Ellis, Stephen Jackson, Antonio Davis, etc.

I simply try to be fair to the player, either way. I am usually not a negative person that roots for people's failures. I will have questions, but you will hard pressed to find me being too critical of any player. That is because I used to be a basketball player and the people who are the most critical usually don't know what they are talking about.

Honestly, I am a lot like Gruden. I kind of like everyone, and rarely have a strong opinion in the negative. If I recall the only two people I was pretty strongly against one of my teams drafting, it was Blaine Gabbert and MKG. Thank God we didn't draft Gabbert, but as soon as we drafted MKG I became a believer and his biggest defender, yet some of his biggest supporters before the draft are trying to already run him out of town.

You may end up being right. He may end up not having a very productive NBA career. If he flames out and fails I hope that makes you feel good. You can come back and tell me how smart you are, and how I should have listened to you. But trust me, you don't know what they hell you are talking about. If he fails or succeeds it doesn't mean you know something that no one else does. It just mean you happened to guess right.

Wow this was a lot.

1 thing is Cam was the prototype NFL QB he just didn't have enough snaps at the positions on a high level college program for experts and fans to have a definitive opinion.

So the comparison to McDermott who has 4 year of tape is off.

I base my opinion again on 1. the fact that he doesn't have a solid position in the pro's. Which is usually not a good thing for a player.

2. He has one great skill set and the rest are highly questionable.

3. He switching to a position where most of the top players and best freak athletes in the league play. SF's are maybe the most athletic players in the league maybe best athletes in the world. So while he tested well running and jumping against no defenders (on stuff he probably practice on every day since the season was over) at the combine. He is facing almost the best athletes on the court every single night.

4. He isn't playing or doing the same things he did in college anymore. He faced primarily post up players in college. We haven't seen him face wing players in the nba which he will have to do now.

Honestly what's his best player comparison?

Maybe a better offensively Anthony Toliver. Maybe a non dribbling or offense running Boris Diaw.

5. That's my biggest problem with McDermott. I don't have a reference point for a 4 year stretch 4. Who doesn't have the size to play PF or the athletics to play SF and SG being successful in the league.

[WOW!!]

What makes you think he couldn't start or be a cornerstone for the team? You're just making stuff up...you have no idea if that's the case. You're guessing and stating it as a fact.

This entire argument has been...

teeray - Using actual stats and metrics to make a case for McDermott.

You - "HE SUCKS BECAUSE I SAID SO! STATS AND ATHLETICISM EVALUATIONS MEAN NOTHING!"

Your arguments have already been disproven by teeray multiple times. I'm not sure why you're keeping this up. We get it. You have an irrational hate for Doug McDermott. Great. It's unclear why, but if you're not even willing to admit the guy's strengths then there's nothing else to say.

I love how you spazed out when I said we need then just a shooter. Next time post the whole thing I said not just a snippet.

[Dorian Gray]

I love how you spazed out when I said we need then just a shooter. Next time post the whole thing I said not just a snippet.

 

When your entire argument is based on a faulty premise there's no reason to quote it all.

 

Also, if you don't think McDermott would be the 2nd or 3rd best scorer on our team, you're crazy.  Who else is gonna be?  Hendo?  McRoberts?  Come on man.