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Ron Rivera on the hot seat? **SMH/LOL**


top dawg

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Shula should be the one who's looking down to check if he accidentally elbow bumped his car's heated seats on.

Rivera? Not so much.

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You could argue that Shula did what they wanted him to.  Control the clock and run the ball.  He could argue that his offense may be 27th, but he parlayed that into 12 wins which matches the franchise record.  If you think it was all the defense, then recall how many times the offense scored late to seal the win or win outright.  We might not have a ton of yards but we were pretty efficient moving the ball.

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You could argue that Shula did what they wanted him to. Control the clock and run the ball. He could argue that his offense may be 27th, but he parlayed that into 12 wins which matches the franchise record. If you think it was all the defense, then recall how many times the offense scored late to seal the win or win outright. We might not have a ton of yards but we were pretty efficient moving the ball.

I credit Cam for the late game drives, not Shula. I've posted stats before showing Shulas offense was not more efficient than Chuds.

Do people just like Shula because his offense reminds them of Foxball or what?

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I credit Cam for the late game drives, not Shula. I've posted stats before showing Shulas offense was not more efficient than Chuds.

Do people just like Shula because his offense reminds them of Foxball or what?

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How do you credit Cam without crediting Shula?  Who so you think taught Newton the pro game and has mentored him the past 3 years.  Ask Cam and he will tell you that Shula has been instrumental in his success.

 

As for Chud versus Shula in efficiency,lets see those stats again. I don't remember it and find many people spouting stats call it efficiency and it really isn't.  For example, yards per attempt is not really efficiency while points per drive or points per yards is.

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How do you credit Cam without crediting Shula?  Who so you think taught Newton the pro game and has mentored him the past 3 years.  Ask Cam and he will tell you that Shula has been instrumental in his success.

 

As for Chud versus Shula in efficiency,lets see those stats again. I don't remember it and find many people spouting stats call it efficiency and it really isn't.  For example, yards per attempt is not really efficiency while points per drive or points per yards is.

 

I'll credit Shula with Cam's development as a QB, and honestly think he's a good position coach. But scoring on the last possession to win?  Well 1) he's not calling plays when the team is running a hurry up offense and 2) with a good offense the team wouldn't be in that position anyway.  If your argument is he helped develop Cam - well, that doesn't really prove why he should be an OC instead of a position coach.  And the fact that Cam has said he likes Shula?  Cam likes everyone...have you ever heard him not be positive about another member of the organization?

 

As for the stats

 

2011

 

Yards - 6237, 7th

Points/game - 25.4, 5th

Yards per play - 6.2, 4th (Yes, I know you think these first 3 don't "count" towards showing how good the offense was, but w/e)

Points per drive - 2.21, 6th

Average drive time - 2:42, 7th (the one Shula supporters always tout as why his offense is "good.")

Turnovers - 23, 14th

Offensive expected points - 131.27

Passing attempts - 519, 23rd

Sacks - 35, 15th

 

2012

 

Yards - 5771, 12th

Points/game - 22.3, 19th

Yards per play - 5.8, 9th

Points per drive - 1.91, 11th

Average drive time - 2:44, 9th

Turnovers - 22, 11th

Offense expected points - 103.92

Passing attempts - 490, 26th

Sacks - 35, 15th

 

2013

 

Yards - 5069, 26th

Points/game - 22.9, 18th

Yards per play - 5.1, 21st

Points per drive - 1.99, 10th

Time of Possession - 3:00, 2nd

Turnovers - 19, 4th

Offense expected points - can't find, oops.

Passing attempts - 473, 30th

Sacks -  43, 17th 

 

The point is, the evidence Shula supporters always use are either were actually better on average under Chud (points/drive) or only marginally better under Shula (time of possession, turnovers).  Not to mention, Shula has gotten to work with a more experienced Cam in his 3rd year (which can also partially explain the decrease in turnovers).  The trade off under Shula though, is a much less explosive offense that can't bring the team back if from down multiple scores.  Once another team gets up 2 possessions on the Panthers (which is definitely hard to do, but still...) the game is essentially over.  See e.g., the game at New Orleans, the 9ers playoff game.

 

Admittedly, 2012 was a down year for the offense.  So would another year of Chud have been more like 2011 or 2012?  We'll never know, but average 2011-12, and the offense was definitely better than Shula's.  One of the very stats you cite as reflective of efficiency - points per drive - was, on average, better under Chud than Shula (2.06 vs. 1.99).  As for points per yard, I can't find that listed anywhere.  I suppose you could calculate it yourself and it would come out as better under Shula because of the lack of offensive yardage, but again I've never seen that stat used anywhere.  In my opinion, that's handpicking a stat that makes Shula look better because of the lack of yards under Shula, similar to how using yards/completion is handpicking a stat to make Chud look better.

 

People act like Chud was some mad scientist who threw the ball 5,000,000/game so the defense got zero rest.  He wasn't.  As the stats indicate, we were near the bottom of the league in passing attempts both years under Chud.  Its just when we did pass then, we actually did something with it other than dinking and dunking our way down the field by calling a fake WR screen/draw play at least once per game and always on second and long.  And finally, despite the fact that we threw the ball the fewest number of times this past year, Cam took a career high number of sacks.  Of course, there were problems with the line in 2013, but there were OL injuries as well in 2012.

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Uhhh...maybe because we won 12 games?

 

Call it a wild-ass guess.

 

So you think we couldn't have won 12 games with Chud?  

 

With a more competent OC we could have possibly beaten the 9ers in the playoffs.  You know, maybe an OC who doesn't call the same goal line dive 3x in a row when the other team clearly has an advantage inside.  Maybe possibly one who doesn't emphasize time of possession by making an 8 minute, zero point drive when the team is down 2 scores late in the 3rd. 

 

Just because something overall positive happened doesn't mean that all individual aspects of it are as positive as the overall outcome as well. I know its tempting to associate WINS=EVERYTHING IS BETTER, but that's not always the case.  Similarly, people associate losses with Chud so they have an overall negative impression of him even though the offense was the only thing right about the team in 2011.  Was he a perfect OC?  No, but he was better than Shula.

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Uhh, didn't RR just sign a 3 year extension in January??? 

 

 

LOL @ "JOURNALISTS"

 

Yeah, I was like "Seriously"? :unsure:

 

I tried to find info on "Buck Stanton's" qualifications as an NFL writer.  Couldn't find anything, anywhere, not even on the site itself.  i can't even prove this guy exists.

 

So I took a look at the names of the other authors on site.  Didn't see a single name that rung a bell.

 

The site apparently gets their images from USA Today.  That's pretty much the extent of what I learned from a cursory search.

 

Unless someone else knows more about it, I'd put in the "guy with a website" category.

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If Rivera is proven to be a one trick pony like Rex Ryan who only care about defense then there will be murmur. There might be the temptation to bring in a little more balanced coach who can take advantage of both side of the ball, especially through the draft and free agency.

Nothing suggest he cares only about D..,.

Day one he hitched his job on the Cam bandwagon

He then experimented with the wild Chud style.

He then tried ball control....paired with his D. It worked. One of the more efficient Os.

Just bc some formulas to win aren't Manning like doesn't mean a coach doesn't care about O. You could make those claims against Jim Harbaugh too then and he wasn't a former LB

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