Stewart healthy & moving well. Rivera's Party Line a Red Herring.

[panthers55]

I was speaking purely of the run game. The critical factor in this that you keep missing or flat out ignoring, is that if you take out Cam's scrambles, our rushing statistics and the overall outcome to the 2013 season itself will look drastically different, and not in a good way.

 

 

I don't know how many different ways I can spell this out for you. It is more than just his overall rushing totals. Russell Wilson had 539 yards rushing, he had 4 games with 50 yards or more rushing, not one of those games was he the sole leading rusher.

 

That was not the case unfortunately with Cam Newton. With Stewart healthy again, hopefully that will change.

 

Now I've explained this to you twice, you just changed the subject the first time, so no I won't bother again after this.

Again if you took out Wilson's numbers or Kaepernick's numbers the results would look the same. Are you saying that they both had poor run games?  You then follow up with faulty logic about how one back who gets 1200 yards is better than two backs who together got 1200 yards.  Totally irrelevant.  

 

And who cares if Wilson led the team in rushing.  As I explained he would scramble around and throw a pass to get a first down as he is much smaller than Cam and more prone to get hurt.  So Cam ran the ball and Wilson threw it.  They still ended up with the same number of rushing yards and passing yards. I don't see how you can think one was better than the other. If cam took Wilson's lead and threw it away or dumped it off he might not have needed ankle surgery.  I hardly see his insistence to run with the ball instead of throwing to receivers who are often open a sign of being more important or better.  My discussion with you wasn't about who was the better runner or who had the better running game but who carried the team on their back and I still think they both did. 

[panthers55]

You're ignoring a big point in this argument. Without Cam's drive saving 3rd and 4th down plays the running game would be obsolete. Without Cam then your stats would be hundreds of yards less than what they are. Look at dwill's ypc and then tell me that his numbers aren't skewed by long runs of 10 yards or more.

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I just answered that question which is that cam had more 3rd and 4th down running opportunities than Williams and Tolbert combined so the fact he converted a good number is hardly remarkable.  And if given the chance I think Tolbert would be just as successful.  The reason that cam was given the majority of the chances was because he poses a dual threat to run or pass which makes the defense avoid crashing in without at least taking the pass into account.  So it wasn't cam's pure rushing ability but teh fact he can pass or run making a dual threat is why he was given the ball most of the time.

 

And no Williams didn't have the numbers skewed anymore than Cam did. Williams had 21 runs of 10 yards or more and averaged 16 yards a carry.  He also had 122 attempts on first and 10 when everyone knew we were going to run and he averaged 4.8 yards a carry.

Cam also had 21 runs of more than 10 yards for the exact same average of 16 yards a carry and his long was 56 yards versus Williams 43.  And given that Williams ran it 200 times versus cam 110 carries the argument should be made that cam was actually benefitted by big runs and his numbers were skewed even more than Williams which is why his average yards per carry was higher. 

 

Amazing how the facts can make clear the faulty memories and speculations of what we think we saw.

[KendrickPanther]

Our run game started well but wasn't a playoff caliber run game due to mounting injuries. If the Panthers can get back to Power O runs with healthy guards they will be more consistent. No one should be praising our offense for the last 6 games or so.

 

If you exclude Cam's runs the run game was anemic at times. You can call them the "best trio" of running backs in the league. But if we could amnesty all three of them we would be better off without them. There are a handful of running backs I would trade all three of them for one.

[Mol3m4n]

I just answered that question which is that cam had more 3rd and 4th down running opportunities than Williams and Tolbert combined so the fact he converted a good number is hardly remarkable. And if given the chance I think Tolbert would be just as successful. The reason that cam was given the majority of the chances was because he poses a dual threat to run or pass which makes the defense avoid crashing in without at least taking the pass into account. So it wasn't cam's pure rushing ability but teh fact he can pass or run making a dual threat is why he was given the ball most of the time.

And no Williams didn't have the numbers skewed anymore than Cam did. Williams had 21 runs of 10 yards or more and averaged 16 yards a carry. He also had 122 attempts on first and 10 when everyone knew we were going to run and he averaged 4.8 yards a carry.

Cam also had 21 runs of more than 10 yards for the exact same average of 16 yards a carry and his long was 56 yards versus Williams 43. And given that Williams ran it 200 times versus cam 110 carries the argument should be made that cam was actually benefitted by big runs and his numbers were skewed even more than Williams which is why his average yards per carry was higher.

Amazing how the facts can make clear the faulty memories and speculations of what we think we saw.

You didn't answer anything. You just danced around it. On 3rd and over six, how many times did Cam bail out the offense? Simple question.

And you just contradicted yourself with your own starts. 16 ypc is a large skew when averaging his runs.

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[Mol3m4n]

This argument is 5 to 10 people against 1 person. Generally that one person is wrong.

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[PandaPancake]

So, exactly what part of my post was confusing to you?

 

I just can't remember him making an impact in six games.

[Jeremy Igo]

Can you grill Brussel sprouts?

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[MadHatter]

Put olive oil and rosemary and sea salt on brussels sprouts and roast it at high heat in the oven until the outside caramelizes and is dark brown/black. You'll eat a whole pound of it even if you think you hate brussels sprouts. Delicious.

Sounds incredible

[CRA]

Anyone who doesn't think Cam was a huge part of what made our running game successful needs to get there head checked. Simple and plain. No need for all this back and forth. Our traditional rush attack was average at best last year....Cam made it statically good

[Paa Langfart]

Cant believe someone was up till 3 30 in the morning arguing this poo.

[lola]

Maybe you could bread the brussel sprout and fry it like okra. Make it really crunchy.

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[panthers55]

You didn't answer anything. You just danced around it. On 3rd and over six, how many times did Cam bail out the offense? Simple question.

And you just contradicted yourself with your own starts. 16 ypc is a large skew when averaging his runs.

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No one is saying that he didn't do a great job last year as quarterback.  The issue was whether he was the only part of the running game that was worth anything and that is where we disagree.  I think he was great in very close as was Tolbert and Williams was better from over 6 yards.

 

And it must because you are answering at 4 in the morning that you missed the fact that if those 21 runs of more than 10 yards (16 yards average) skewed Williams stats over 200 runs, then Cam's 21 runs for over 10 yards (16 yards average) over 100 runs skewed his numbers twice as much.  So whose runs were skewed more by a few big runs??  Williams or Cam?

[panthers55]

Anyone who doesn't think Cam was a huge part of what made our running game successful needs to get there head checked. Simple and plain. No need for all this back and forth. Our traditional rush attack was average at best last year....Cam made it statically good

The point was whether he was only the part of it that was good and that is what I took initial issue with.  He is a good part of the running game although I still think he chooses to run when he could often throw a pass to a receiver who is open.  And that his stats and the team rushing stats are the same as San Francisco and Seattle.  Why is it that everyone are criticizing our offense yet everyone is praising the other two teams offense when they were the same as us.  If they sucked, then so did we.  If they were good then so were we.

 

But I am done here.  Argued this too much for the offseason when it really doesn't matter and is past history.  Nice to see you back, did you take a break or was it me??

[Peppers90 NC]

U never want to over cook Brussel sprouts. Fast at a high temp like rodeo suggested is best. Otherwise chop up finely and eat as a simple salad with a lemon mustard vinaigrette and some parmesan like cheese. Some crumbled bacon could be a nice addition but not necessary.

Also simple math suggests only 1,400 rush yards from your backfield is a poor number for a 16 game season.

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