Proehl on 1st visit with Kelvin Benjamin: "I was in awe to be honest"

[FootballMaestro]

Must have misread that he said he was around 255/260. But he's lean like cam.

It will be interesting to see how he progresses and how they use him. Like dg said they have to put him in positions to succeed. This is cams first "toy". Cam will target him a lot if I had to guess. I'll try and find where he said his weight after the combine.

 

Yeah, if he's really 255, 260lbs, then he would really be like a Jimmy Graham. 

 

However, just looking at him/his height (not that always works), and reading his listing, he does appear 242-245 lbs. 

 

We'll see indeed (to everything)????

[FootballMaestro]

Lol smh

 

Physical tools and athletic tools are different. 

 

Let me break it down one last time for you

 

Physical Tools - size (height, weight, arm length, hand size, etc)

 

Athletic Tools - speed, quickness, strength, vertical, agility, etc

 

Yes people include and mix physical tools with athletic tools, which doesnt change the fact they are different. 

 

The end. 

 

All good things must come to an end my friend. 

 

And so must this. 

 

I'm sure someone else will join in, and/or pick apart your convoluted logic, double standards (if they have the patience). 

 

I must go though. 

 

Enjoy your weekend. 

[MedellinHeel]

All good thinks much end my friend. 

 

So must this. 

 

Enjoy your weekend. 

 

Igualmente ;)

[*FreeFua*]

KB plays much faster than his 40 time indicates. Just ask Loucheiz Purifoy. I'm convinced some of you just look at the combine numbers and make your own conclusions. Go watch KB's cut ups. He gets separation. Hell, they even ran some end around's for KB. Says alot about his athleticism.

[iamhubby1]

Can we just stop with the Calvin Johnson comparisons. Calvin is a athletic freak. KB has some physical limitations ie speed, vert, etc.

"Physical Limitations". LOL The kid is a freak. But because he isn't a track star, or jump like David Thompson, he has limitations. Just not a good argument to make.  

 

You see his foot is touching the ground........? 

 

Even with KB limited vert he will still have a higher reach than most CB's. 

 

The point is, it is just as high as id like if both players jump at the same time. Someone KB size you sky above most players on jump ball situations, but i you watch his games that is not case most of the time.

Somebody shows you a pic of KB high-pointing the ball, a good 2 feet above a defender, during live action, and you still refuse to see where he can be a threat on jump balls.

Not all jump balls are created equal. Not every CB is going to be in position to jump with him on every pass. And even if they are, chances are they are going to come up short. Get it...short.

That my friend is being blind to your own argument.

 

 

You might have a point if I said KB was a dud athletically. Already mentioned he is agile and shifty. That alone doesnt make him athletically gifted, atleast not to me. Most football people will agree, the three most important metrics of athletic ability in regards to NFL are speed/quickness, strength, and vert. To be deemed athletically gifted you would need to test out above average on those metrics. 

 

Ovcourse ppl miss use terms like physically and athletically gifted. Doesnt change the fact that they are indeed different.

Now I may be wrong on this. But I am guessing you made that up to make your point seem more appropriate. As it pertains to WRs. Speed/quickness? Sure. Strength? Sure. But vertical? Not a big deal.

1) For his size, KB is plenty fast. Watch his "Tape", watch how many times he runs away from DBs. I saw a BUNCH. He is plenty fast with the ball in his hands. For his size, which is huge, he is damm fast. He may not be quick enough for you. But the dude seems to be quick enough on the field.

2) Strength is something he has in abundance.

3) Vertical. If there were more plays where everyone is standing around waiting for the ball to come down. I might put more emphasis on this aspect. But considering most jump balls are done on the move, I give KB more than enough credit for his leaping ability.

Lastly, the kid passed every test the Panthers threw at him. He has smarts, has the desire to improve, and is humble. Put those together with his size, strength, agility, timing, and more than adequate speed. And you have yourself one hellofa football player.

Just because he doesn't possess "Blazing Speed", does not mean he doesn't have plenty of "Football Speed".

tl/dr version. Not many players, throughout the history of the game, have his size, and blazing speed.

[iamhubby1]

KB plays much faster than his 40 time indicates. Just ask Loucheiz Purifoy. I'm convinced some of you just look at the combine numbers and make your own conclusions. Go watch KB's cut ups. He gets separation. Hell, they even ran some end around's for KB. Says alot about his athleticism.

Most folks see what you see. A huge WR with football skills. If he comes close to fulfilling his potential. We have another future star on our hands. And my friend. I can live with that.

[MadHatter]

You see his foot is touching the ground........?

Even with KB limited vert he will still have a higher reach than most CB's.

The point is, it is just as high as id like if both players jump at the same time. Someone KB size you sky above most players on jump ball situations, but i you watch his games that is not case most of the time.

So you are posting negative about our number 1 pick and starting threads whining and bitching that we did not draft an udfa lineman from your favorite team.

God you are a complete tool.

[carolinarolls]

I mentioned the following to some people who were pisst in the immediate days following the draft and even called in and left a message on the whiner line during a 5 minute moment of weakness where I attempted to stomach douchebag Marcus in exchange for some local feel about KB. It seems everybody was bitching and moaning about the kid mostly based on his lack of polish and how much of a raw project he is. Those concerns are warranted but there is more to this pick than whether or not one believes the ceiling is sky high and how much of a gamble it is for him to reach it.

In actuality he is the epitome of what the Panthers need but also comes with a very, very high ceiling that could place him among the elite of the elite in the game.

Carolina was 52% last year in Red Zone conversion. They were considrably better away from BofA and they were just over 7 points lower in this stat than they were in 2012. Tolbert provided much of this production until everyone stacked the box against it later in the season. If it were not for one of the studliest bowling balls to tote the rock since Jerome Bettis wearing a Laser Blue uni, Carolina's Red Zone rank would likely be much lower than where they finished the year with (19th).

So. Enter KB. Bigger than everyone else with some pretty nifty athleticism and hands that practically engulf the pigskin. If he never turns into the polished route runner or the wiley old vet most peole think he is far from currently, he still will serve a huge purpose for Riv and Cam this year in the Red Zone alone. If he never catches one TD all season from inside the 5 (highly doubtfl to say the least) he will at minimum comand under and over coverage on every snap taking a couple people out of the box.

Now and for the big part. Lets imagine that he can and does begin to "get it". Suppose the light comes on sometime before the end of his sophomoe campaign on all parts of the field and not just in the Red Zone. Think for a moment how awesome it is to get a rookie that will provide a HUGE help right out of the gate and yet still has a high probablility to mature into the high ceiling his physical size garners from all the analysts.

In the end, with an extrememly late first round pick DG acquired for the Panthers an immediate fix to a glaring problem with the offense and a possible homerun prospect with as much value (if potential ever materializes) as any player drafted in '14. We got as close as you can get to a "sure thing" insofar as Red Zone production goes and potential offensive phenom all in one pick.

That my friends is smart muther-frickin football if you ask me.

[MedellinHeel]

"Physical Limitations". LOL The kid is a freak. But because he isn't a track star, or jump like David Thompson, he has limitations. Just not a good argument to make.  

 

 

 

Maybe you missed this but I already stated my use of limitations probably differs from other people. What I said was he does not possess elite speed nor vert. Thus being limited on those metrics compared to other players. He makes up for this somewhat due to his size. 

 

Somebody shows you a pic of KB high-pointing the ball, a good 2 feet above a defender, during live action, and you still refuse to see where he can be a threat on jump balls.

Not all jump balls are created equal. Not every CB is going to be in position to jump with him on every pass. And even if they are, chances are they are going to come up short. Get it...short.

That my friend is being blind to your own argument.

 

 

I never once said he is not or would not be a threat on jump balls. In fact I said he will be an asset on jump balls as even with his poor vert, he still has a higher catch radius than most CB's. What I pointed out was it was not as high as you would think for someone his size. ie when him and the CB jump at the same time. I can pull up some video to illustrate this if you want. 

 

 

Now I may be wrong on this. But I am guessing you made that up to make your point seem more appropriate. As it pertains to WRs. Speed/quickness? Sure. Strength? Sure. But vertical? Not a big deal.

 

 

It is not a huge issue as his height negates the poor vert and still results in him having a higher reach than most CB's. 

 

 

1) For his size, KB is plenty fast. Watch his "Tape", watch how many times he runs away from DBs. I saw a BUNCH. He is plenty fast with the ball in his hands. For his size, which is huge, he is damm fast. He may not be quick enough for you. But the dude seems to be quick enough on the field.

 

 

There is no for his size. You are either fast or you arent. Fast for a WR is 4.4 and lower. Please show me tape where KB is breaking / running away from DBs. 

 

 

2) Strength is something he has in abundance.

 

 

I dont recall ever mentioning KB's strength. In fact I have no clue to his strength ie reps on the bench

 

 

Lastly, the kid passed every test the Panthers threw at him. He has smarts, has the desire to improve, and is humble. Put those together with his size, strength, agility, timing, and more than adequate speed. And you have yourself one hellofa football player.

Just because he doesn't possess "Blazing Speed", does not mean he doesn't have plenty of "Football Speed".

tl/dr version. Not many players, throughout the history of the game, have his size, and blazing speed.

 

 

Not sure I will say hellofa player yet. He is a very nice prospect. Whether all this translates on the field in a nice long productive career remains to be seen. 

 

I already mentioned I would have drafted KB with our pick, so I am not sure what point you guys are trying to make. 

 

The facts still remain. KB doesnt possess elite speed and his vert is underwhelming. Additionally putting KB and Calvin Johnson in the same sentence is absurd. 

 

Does any of that mean KB can not be a good player? No. 

[rodeo]

Here are the heights + verticals for some WRs.

 

Calvin Johnson - 120
Larry Fitzgerald - 110
Kelvin Benjamin - 109
AJ Green - 109
Sammy Watkins - 107

[TANTRIC-NINJA]

Here are the heights + verticals for some WRs.

Calvin Johnson - 120

Larry Fitzgerald - 110

Kelvin Benjamin - 109

AJ Green - 109

Sammy Watkins - 107

Perspective, do you have it?

If Benjamin had a negative 3 verticle he would be a better red zone target than anyone on the roster last season.

[TheRumGone]

kelvin benjamin 4.61

 

brandon marshall 4.52

 

larry fitzgerald 4.63

 

calvin johnson 4.35

 

dwayne bowe 4.51

 

dwayne jarett 4.62

 

alshon jefferey 4.48

 

T.O. 4.36

 

Roy Williams 4.37

 

Braylon Edwards 4.38

 

Stevie Johnson 4.59

 

 

here are some busts/ and here are some studs for big receivers

 

the real question should be not his 40 yard dash time, but can he adapt to pro-level cornerbacks? does he have enough smarts/strength/physicality to make an impact?

 

what was the one question kelvin asked a former wr on that show? "how did you beat press coverage."  he has enough physical and athletic ability to be a red zone threat right now. The question needs to be will he have the smarts to master the WR position/route running and beating the different looks and coverages defenses are going to give him.

 

what did DG say? only player in this draft who can run the entire route tree was OBJ (my favorite wr from this draft). what did he say about kelvin? He can run more of it than most this past draft.

 

the more i read and learn about kelvin the less nervous i am about him.

 

 

 

 

[rodeo]

My only concern about Kelvin are the drops, it's undeniable that he's had some, but it's comforting that they're never key drops. He tends to have a few in the first quarter, then is totally clutch in the second half. They may be coached away altogether, but even if not, I'm fine with 3 drops and 3 TDs like his game vs. Florida.

[TheRumGone]

My only concern about Kelvin are the drops, it's undeniable that he's had some, but it's comforting that they're never key drops. He tends to have a few in the first quarter, then is totally clutch in the second half. They may be coached away altogether, but even if not, I'm fine with 3 drops and 3 TDs like his game vs. Florida.

 

this isn't meant to be a comparison but

 

calvin johnson drops a poo ton of balls and nobody really talks about it. its moments that matter like you said. but i will say in the NFL every moment really matters.