Proehl on 1st visit with Kelvin Benjamin: "I was in awe to be honest"

[TheRed]

How about we just let Kelvin Benjamin actually get out there and play before comparing him to a future hall of famer.

 

Crazy thought I guess.

[FootballMaestro]

How about we just let Kelvin Benjamin actually get out there and play before comparing him to a future hall of famer.

 

Crazy thought I guess.

 

Oh, the Shame Of It!

 

Some Panthers fans are actually very high on their draft pick, and one to express it on a Panther websites. 

 

Who would have thunk it?  :cool:

 

Let it go (them, their statements). What else would you want them talk about, before REAL practices and games happen??

 

It's all speculation at this point anyway (all of it, including what the Current Panthers will do next season). 

[MedellinHeel]

As much as it pains me, I'll post this pic again:

 

 

 

The defender in this play, Chris Davis (a player near and dear to my heart due to his 109-yd missed FG return in the Iron Bowl) has a 40-inch vertical.  Fat lotta good that vert advantage against KB did him.  

 

I guess (a) Chris didn't know the play FSU was going to run prior to their running it and thus was behind the play (advantage FSU), ( B) KB used his body to shield the trailing defender from the play (advantage KB), and © KB's vert was perfectly satisfactory to get him to the high point of the play FIRST.

 

So, no, KBs vert isn't as high as some NFL players.  And it won't matter because of the kids height, wingspan, hands, and ability to use his body.

 

You see his foot is touching the ground........? 

 

Even with KB limited vert he will still have a higher reach than most CB's. 

 

The point is, it is just as high as id like if both players jump at the same time. Someone KB size you sky above most players on jump ball situations, but i you watch his games that is not case most of the time. 

[MedellinHeel]

Once again, you're using the combines as an End All Be All and they're not. So Stop!

 

As I said; they're a multiplicity of things that combines can miss:

 

Some guys don't run well at the combines for what ever reasons (just like how Bridgewater had an awful Pro Day, however is looking much better in Camp). The combines don't measure the explosion in how you jump. Who cares if you have a high vertical, if you get up there slow. There's also standing vs running vertical. One guy could have a higher standing vertical of another player. When that other player, could have a higher running vertical. Get my drift?

 

Lastly, you would be concerned with KB's 40 time (if you were only analyzing that, and nothing else), if you couldn't pin point his slow starts. So we know why he timed at 4.6. He has a big body to unfurl. However, once he's up to speed, he's obviously fast/fast enough, plus he's big, shifty, and agile to boot. And that doesn't take into account, on field adrenaline, route running, timing, size, strength and anticipation at WR vs most corners. 

 

My main concern is: you're misreading the combines, as well as placing too much faith in them. And this is despite the fact, that the Panther players, Brass and coaches, have already called him an 'Athletic Freak'. I notice, you been ignoring that/those statements?

 

Why so?

 

PS: I'm telling you KB is going to be all world. Not at all. However, I think it's ludicrous for you to try to say he's 'limited athletically', before he plays his first NFL game, even when we have the Panther players, coaches and brass already stating he's athletically and football gifted.....Strange. 

 

Nonetheless, we will see?

 

KB even at full stride does not have break away speed. His vert is low for a skill guy. So yes I can say he has limitations athletically. And when I say limitations, it merely means he is not elite (athletically), not that he is a complete dud. He is pretty shifty and agile for his size. 

 

I dont give a fug what the coaches say. KB is not gifted athletically, he is gifted physically. 

[TheRed]

This MedellinHeel guy has been pitching a fit since the minute we drafted KB. We get it already, let it go.

[MedellinHeel]

This MedellinHeel guy has been pitching a fit since the minute we drafted KB. We get it already, let it go.

 

Um no, I merely pointed out after we drafted him his vert and 40 numbers. 

 

It actually didnt take me long to come around on this pick and I even said I would have drafted him in the 1st round knowing who was gonna be available later. 

 

When I see posters comparing KB and CJ I can not help but call them out. 

[FootballMaestro]

KB even at full stride does not have break away speed. His vert is low for a skill guy. So yes I can say he has limitations athletically. And when I say limitations, it merely means he is not elite (athletically), not that he is a complete dud. He is pretty shifty and agile for his size. 

 

I dont give a fug what the coaches say. KB is not gifted athletically, he is gifted physically. 

 

Once again, you're over reaching (while finally making some sense in other areas).  

 

How many players in the NFL at KB's size have break away speed?

 

None, that I know of, except maybe Calvin Johnson (who's 5-10 lbs less than KB, and probably a bit slower after numerous NFL seasons)? None!

 

I don't see his "limitations" athletically, if they [for practical speaking] translated on the field. However, at his size most receivers are not burners to begin with. Whether they're possession or deep receivers, they beat you with their route running, size, strength, and or anticipation, not speed. I think you have a warped perception of the speed of most WR's, especially THE BIG ONES. And considering KB may be amongst the biggest one of them all, you wouldn't expect him to be amongst the fastest. Trust me, if he's not "athletically gifted" enough (as you say) at the position, they'll move him to TE, and/or only have him in during special packages. 

 

Ok, let's just ignore the coaches, players and Brass, who are actually watching what's happening on the Football Field (albeit in spring practice with out pads), while your guessing on your computer. You'd have more leg to stand on, if you saw him in practice (which I'm almost sure you didn't). 

[MedellinHeel]

Once again, you're over reaching (while finally making some sense in other areas).  

 

How many players in the NFL at KB's size have break away speed?

 

None, that I know of, except maybe Calvin Johnson (who's 5-10 lbs less than KB, and probably a bit slower after numerous NFL seasons)? None!

 

I don't see his "limitations" athletically, if they [for practical speaking] translated on the field. However, at his size most receivers are not burners to begin with. Whether they're possession or deep receivers, they beat you with their route running, size, strength, and or anticipation, not speed. I think you have a warped perception of the speed of most WR's, especially THE BIG ONES. And considering KB may be amongst the biggest one of them all, you wouldn't expect him to be amongst the fastest. Trust me, if he's not "athletically gifted" enough (as you say) at the position, they'll move him to TE, and/or only have him in during special packages. 

 

Ok, let's just ignore the coaches, players and Brass, who are actually watching what's happening on the Football Field (albeit in spring practice with out pads), while your guessing on your computer. You'd have more leg to stand on, if you saw him in practice (which I'm almost sure you didn't). 

 

I am not reaching at all, what I said are facts. You are merely ignoring them or making excuses for why they are facts. 

 

Fact - Doesnt have breakaway speed 

Fact - Underwhelming vert

 

Now yes, not many people his size possess those attributes but that is beside the fact. They still remain. 

 

With all that said, doesn't mean KB will not be successful. I actually expect him to be successful. KB is a physical freak with solid ball skills. 

[FootballMaestro]

I am not reaching at all, what I said are facts. You are merely ignoring them or making excuses for why they are facts. 

 

Fact - Doesnt have breakaway speed 

Fact - Underwhelming vert

 

Now yes, not many people his size possess those attributes but that is beside the fact. They still remain. 

 

With all that said, doesn't mean KB will not be successful. I actually expect him to be successful. KB is a physical freak with solid ball skills. 

 

1) Idiotic, stating he doesn't have breakaway speed. Who does at the size in the NFL? SMH

2) Underwhelming Vertical: Who cares!

 

I'm going to illustrate why your "Physically vs "Athletically" gifted parsing of words you added are inter-related, though you're now trying to separate them.

 

Deondre Jordan, who Plays on the LA Clippers. Would you say he's athletically gifted....????????????????????????????

The Overwhelming majority of fans, players, coaches would say yes!! Correct???

 

However, DJ's vertical is only in the thirties (when you have other NBA players in the high thirties or forties). I've read the same for Blake Griffin as well (but lets leave him out for now, since I'm more certain on DJ). So why is he still considered athletically gifted? Cause he's tall with extremely long arms and gets off the ground very quickly!!  That's why. Give Deondre Jordan these same attributes, at (let's say)  6'5-8",  instead of 6'11", and he's not so athletically gifted any more, and quite ordinary in many peoples eyes. This is why they say, "you can't teach size".

 

So you can't necessarily compare Benjamin to 6'2" 220lb receivers, when he's 6'5" (with disproportionately) extremely long arms, 242 lbs to begin with. It doesn't work that way. 

[FootballMaestro]

This MedellinHeel guy has been pitching a fit since the minute we drafted KB. We get it already, let it go.

Oh thanks. 

 

I didn't notice that before (though I'm sure he'll have some explanation/sorta back track for you)  :cool:

[MedellinHeel]

1) Idiotic, stating he doesn't have breakaway speed. Who does at the size in the NFL? SMH

2) Underwhelming Vertical: Who cares!

 

I'm going to illustrate why your "Physically vs "Athletically" gifted parsing of words you added are inter-related, though you're now trying to separate them.

 

Deondre Jordan, who Plays on the LA Clippers. Would you say he's athletically gifted....????????????????????????????

The Overwhelming majority of fans, players, coaches would say yes!! Correct???

 

However, DJ's vertical is only in the thirties (when you have other NBA players in the high thirties or forties). I've read the same for Blake Griffin as well (but lets leave him out for now, since I'm more certain on DJ). So why is he still considered athletically gifted? Cause he's tall with extremely long arms and gets off the ground very quickly!!  That's why. Give Deondre Jordan these same attributes, at (let's say 6'5-8",  instead of 6'11"), and he's not so athletically gifted, any more, and quite ordinary. This is why they say, "you can't teach size". So you can't necessarily compare him to 6'2" 220lb receivers, when he's 6'5" (with disproportionately) extremely long arms. It doesn't work that way. 

 

Both my facts are facts. You seem to have a hard time admitting such. You saying stuff like who cares or who does only illustrates that. 

 

Physically and Athletically are different metrics. 

 

Physically gifted has to due with size. 

 

Athletically gifted has to do with speed, quickness, explosiveness, jumping, etc. 

 

Another metric which deserves merit / mention is coordination. 

[FootballMaestro]

Both my facts are facts. You seem to have a hard time admitting such. You saying stuff like who cares or who does only illustrates that. 

 

Physically and Athletically are different metrics. 

 

Physically gifted has to due with size. 

 

Athletically gifted has to do with speed, quickness, explosiveness, jumping, etc. 

 

Another metric which deserves merit / mention is coordination. 

 

KB apparently is agile, deceptive, and has great body control (all athletic attributes on your list). However, you still want to parse/create words and terms, calling him "physically gifted", though he possesses (by your measure) great athletic attributes at his size. . You're talking nonsense now. The Deondre Jordan example was a very good one. 

 

And YES, lot's of people when they call you PHYSICALLY GIFTED could be talking about your body, athleticism, or both!! They're interchangeable. I would argue, most when they say it, are talking about everything (or your overall Physical impact on the field, which KB seems to possess at this early stage). 

 

You're just creating your own now to tread, hold your head above water for your sinking argument and convoluted logic.  

[TheRumGone]

Both my facts are facts. You seem to have a hard time admitting such. You saying stuff like who cares or who does only illustrates that. 

 

Physically and Athletically are different metrics. 

 

Physically gifted has to due with size. 

 

Athletically gifted has to do with speed, quickness, explosiveness, jumping, etc. 

 

Another metric which deserves merit / mention is coordination. 

 

he's physically gifted and athletically gifted.....because of his size.

 

most people that big are awkward. KB is very fluid. an explosive jumper and can make some acrobatical catches because of his athleticism. very few people his size can contort their body that way.

 

he may not have a high vert or a slower 40 time but he makes up for it in other athletic ways. not just physical. at least thats what i have seen.

 

[party_animal]

I love the KB pick but, just because someone is big and has a lot of physical tools for the job doesn't equate to being an elite by NFL standards athlete. KB should be a beast but he has a lower vertical and is slower than VJax, Marshall, Jeffrey, Megatron, Green, Andre Johnson, and T.O. That being said, his numbers are very comparable to another former FSU big bodied receiver that demolished our secondary in the playoffs...

And that guy was 30 lbs lighter at his combine and is 5 inches shorter.

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