Proehl on 1st visit with Kelvin Benjamin: "I was in awe to be honest"

[Chief Keek]

Calm down with the Calvin Johnson talk already, there is only one Megatron. Let's see Kelvin take a snap in the regular season before crowning him as the next great WR.

[MedellinHeel]

You're not making any sense. 

 

No, there is not a big difference between a vertical in the low and high thirties. Not at all. They're a lot of co-mitigating factors, such as Explosion, timing/anticipation, Height, Reach, etc. You're wrong!

 

You think Roy Hibbert in the NBA, has a decent vertical??? Of course not. However, bring a 6'5" guard with a 48" vertical in the paint, and 7/10 times he's going to block their shot or make them miss. You get my drift? This is the advantage that Benjamin will have over most Cornerbacks, and even Linebackers (as they'll be most likely slower and heavier, even if the same height). 

 

Plus, that was his standing vertical. Some guys may have lower standing verticals. However, their running verticals are much/disproportionately  higher (can even be higher than another player that has a higher standing vertical than them). 

 

Once again, he's fast, deceptive and agile. His 40 time is completely cause he doesn't get out of the blocks/come out of his stance quickly. But he moves. 

 

And Yes, KB can be the Panthers Megatron On The Field, even if he's not Megatron on the combine (after all who is)!??

 

What ever you say bro. Go ahead and compare KB to Calvin lol. 

 

 

[FootballMaestro]

PS: This is the same logic, Panthers fans use when Cam's throws high ("Oh why does Cam Do that"). Every QB does that every week. 

 

So now it's, "KB is not Megatron athletically". So now that means, KB is an Athletic dud in comparison. 

 

Huh, No One is Megatron athletically in the NFL. However, that doesn't stop other tall, big bodied, less athletically gifted receivers from dominating the NFL, and/or being very good receivers. 

 

SMH at Huddler's sometimes. 

[FootballMaestro]

What ever you say bro. Go ahead and compare KB to Calvin lol. 

 

What ever KB does on the field, remains to be seen. 

 

However, you're logic and blanket statements regarding KB's 'lack of athleticism' made no sense, having little basis in reality, history, practicality and scope in the NFL (in the combine and on the field).

 

Sorry.  

[MedellinHeel]

PS: This is the same logic, Panthers fans use when Cam's throws high ("Oh why does Cam Do that"). Every QB does that every week. 

 

So now it's, "KB is not Megatron athletically". So now that means, KB is an Athletic dud in comparison. 

 

Huh, No One is Megatron athletically in the NFL. However, that doesn't stop other tall, big bodied, less athletically gifted receivers from dominating the NFL, and/or being very good receivers. 

 

SMH at Huddler's sometimes. 

 

Who are these other tall big bodies WRs dominating the NFL so I can compare their athleticism to KB? 

 

If I had to bet right now I would bet KB would be inferior athletically. 

[Chief Keek]

PS: This is the same logic, Panthers fans use when Cam's throws high ("Oh why does Cam Do that"). Every QB does that every week.

So now it's, "KB is not Megatron athletically". So now that means, KB is an Athletic dud in comparison.

Huh, No One is Megatron athletically in the NFL. However, that doesn't stop other tall, big bodied, less athletically gifted receivers from dominating the NFL, and/or being very good receivers.

SMH at Huddler's sometimes.

Nobody said Kelvin wasn't athletic, just stop comparing him to Megatron. Kelvin hasn't played one down of NFL Football yet, nobody knows what he's going to do until we see it. Calvin Johnson has already proven what he's capable of at the next level, let's see what Kelvin's got before putting him in those conversations.

Personally in my opinion I think he is going to make some noise but I actually want to see it with my own two eyes first before giving him the title of great WR.

[FootballMaestro]

Nobody said Kelvin wasn't athletic, just stop comparing him to Megatron. Kelvin hasn't played one down of NFL Football yet, nobody knows what he's going to do until we see it. Calvin Johnson has already proven what he's capable of at the next level, let's see what Kelvin's got before putting him in those conversations.

Personally in my opinion I think he is going to make some noise but I actually want to see it with my own two eyes first before giving him the title of great WR.

 

Two different arguments. 

 

I can agree with your comparison to Megatron. However, what do you want Panthers fans to do?

 

They're excited about their draft pick, and have nothing else to talk about for weeks.

 

To be expected!!  :cool:

 

However, now we can't go in the other direction (because of this), and make KB appear as an athletic flop; when he's obviously a beast (at this early stage). Just listen to how the Panther players, coaches and General Manager were marveling at his athleticism, football instincts and catches, just off of a few spring No Pads practices. 

[FootballMaestro]

Who are these other tall big bodies WRs dominating the NFL so I can compare their athleticism to KB? 

 

If I had to bet right now I would bet KB would be inferior athletically. 

 

How little do you know. 

 

I don't have the time for this right now (I was done with you). 

 

However, I'm sure someone will pull this stuff up eventually. 

 

Ironically, the Panther players, coaches and GM were marveling at KB and calling him an athletic freak, so what more do you need?

 

You still don't get it, do you?

 

Measurable aren't always the "All All, that Be All". The combine doesn't measure explosion. You can have a 50 in vertical, but if another guy who is taller, who has longer arms, can get up to the same height, and/or jump faster, he's going to catch more balls against you. Even if you take two guys that are the same height, and one has a 6 " higher vertical, if the other jumps faster, he'll still win out most times. It's that simple. 

 

Once again, his 40 time is useless, as he's running out of a stance, and doesn't get out of it quickly. However, his football speed is much better (plus he's deceptive). Gettlemen, Rivera and the Panther players have already stated this. 

 

Larry Fitztgerald, AJ Green, Antoine Bolden, Brandon Marshall (and many others); none of these guys are gifted athletically

 

One could argue, Megatron is the exception to the rule historically. Most of the guys who are fabulous in combines, make "OK" NFL players, and it's actually the less "gifted" ones who make better NFL players. 

 

Lastly, if KB was a two year starter, and their was less relative mystery on him, he would have probably been drafted in the top 10, 15 (and some, such as yourself, wouldn't pin the useless/ridiculous stigma on him). 

 

 

[MedellinHeel]

Larry Fitztgerald, AJ Green, Antoine Bolden, Brandon Marshall (and many others); none of these guys are gifted athletically

 

 

And which of these guys tested worse than KB athletically?

 

And p.s. your position or tone is that of I do not think KB will do good in the NFL. 

 

I think he can be successful due to his fball skills (needs to work on his drops) and his physical tools. 

 

My only thing is damn, imagine how much nicer a prospect he would be if he had a good vert and speed. And that we should not be comparing Calvin to KB. 

 

 

[MadHatter]

Im honestly not worried about the WRs anymore. I'm just scared to death about the OL.

I am feeling good about C and G.

I am feeling ok at RT with either bell or chandler.

LT still scares me

[Chief Keek]

Two different arguments. 

 

I can agree with your comparison to Megatron. However, what do you want Panthers fans to do?

 

They're excited about their draft pick, and have nothing else to talk about for weeks.

 

To be expected!!  :cool:

 

However, now we can't go in the other direction (because of this), and make KB appear as an athletic flop; when he's obviously a beast (at this early stage). Just listen to how the Panther players, coaches and General Manager were marveling at his athleticism, football instincts and catches, just off of a few spring No Pads practices. 

 

True I understand being excited but let's not go overboard just yet. I'm amped myself because I can't wait to see what Cam does with an actual receiving core.

 

[FootballMaestro]

And which of these guys tested worse than KB athletically?

 

And p.s. your position or tone is that of I do not think KB will do good in the NFL. 

 

I think he can be successful due to his fball skills (needs to work on his drops) and his physical tools. 

 

My only thing is damn, imagine how much nicer a prospect he would be if he had a good vert and speed. And that we should not be comparing Calvin to KB. 

 

 

Once again, you're using the combines as an End All Be All and they're not. So Stop!

 

As I said; they're a multiplicity of things that combines can miss:

 

Some guys don't run well at the combines for what ever reasons (just like how Bridgewater had an awful Pro Day, however is looking much better in Camp). The combines don't measure the explosion in how you jump. Who cares if you have a high vertical, if you get up there slow. There's also standing vs running vertical. One guy could have a higher standing vertical of another player. When that other player, could have a higher running vertical. Get my drift?

 

Lastly, you would be concerned with KB's 40 time (if you were only analyzing that, and nothing else), if you couldn't pin point his slow starts. So we know why he timed at 4.6. He has a big body to unfurl. However, once he's up to speed, he's obviously fast/fast enough, plus he's big, shifty, and agile to boot. And that doesn't take into account, on field adrenaline, route running, timing, size, strength and anticipation at WR vs most corners. 

 

My main concern is: you're misreading the combines, as well as placing too much faith in them. And this is despite the fact, that the Panther players, Brass and coaches, have already called him an 'Athletic Freak'. I notice, you been ignoring that/those statements?

 

Why so?

 

PS: I'm telling you KB is going to be all world. Not at all. However, I think it's ludicrous for you to try to say he's 'limited athletically', before he plays his first NFL game, even when we have the Panther players, coaches and brass already stating he's athletically and football gifted.....Strange. 

 

Nonetheless, we will see?

[tiger7_88]

You're not making any sense. 

 

No, there is not a big difference between a vertical in the low and high thirties. Not at all. They're a lot of co-mitigating factors, such as Explosion, timing/anticipation, Height, Reach, etc. You're wrong!

 

You think Roy Hibbert in the NBA, has a decent vertical??? Of course not. However, bring a 6'5" guard with a 48" vertical in the paint, and 7/10 times he's going to block their shot or make them miss. You get my drift? This is the advantage that Benjamin will have over most Cornerbacks, and even Linebackers (as they'll be most likely slower and heavier, even if the same height). 

 

Plus, that was his standing vertical. Some guys may have lower standing verticals. However, their running verticals are much/disproportionately  higher (can even be higher than another player that has a higher standing vertical than them). 

 

Once again, he's fast, deceptive and agile. His 40 time is completely cause he doesn't get out of the blocks/come out of his stance quickly. But he moves. 

 

And Yes, KB can be the Panthers Megatron On The Field, even if he's not Megatron on the combine (after all who is)!??

 

 

As much as it pains me, I'll post this pic again:

 

 

 

The defender in this play, Chris Davis (a player near and dear to my heart due to his 109-yd missed FG return in the Iron Bowl) has a 40-inch vertical.  Fat lotta good that vert advantage against KB did him.  

 

I guess (a) Chris didn't know the play FSU was going to run prior to their running it and thus was behind the play (advantage FSU), (b) KB used his body to shield the trailing defender from the play (advantage KB), and © KB's vert was perfectly satisfactory to get him to the high point of the play FIRST.

 

So, no, KBs vert isn't as high as some NFL players.  And it won't matter because of the kids height, wingspan, hands, and ability to use his body.

[FootballMaestro]

As much as it pains me, I'll post this pic again:

 

 

 

The defender in this play, Chris Davis (a player near and dear to my heart due to his 109-yd missed FG return in the Iron Bowl) has a 40-inch vertical.  Fat lotta good that vert advantage against KB did him.  

 

I guess (a) Chris didn't know the play FSU was going to run prior to their running it and thus was behind the play (advantage FSU), ( B) KB used his body to shield the trailing defender from the play (advantage KB), and © KB's vert was perfectly satisfactory to get him to the high point of the play FIRST.

 

So, no, KBs vert isn't as high as some NFL players.  And it won't matter because of the kids height, wingspan, hands, and ability to use his body.

 

Bingo/That's the Reality, Thought, Idea (the bold)!!

 

This is football, not a track meet. 

 

Let's even say the guy was as slow as some Huddler's want him to be. He could run right up the middle in traffic, and as long as you throw the ball high enough, his height, girth and wingspan will carve him out space to catch the ball in a crowd or with a DB draped all over him. 

 

When you're that size, you don't have to be super athletically gifted or a great route runner. However, he's not the athletic dud some make him to be. And he appears to want to be good, so you would hope he'll be a good route runner in the pros as well. 

 

We'll see?