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All Time Panther Team

Smith vs Lucas

By Smith vs Lucas,
in Carolina Panthers

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KendrickPanther Apprentice

KendrickPanther

Posted
Posted

You bring up circumstance when Jake was on better teams than Steve was. You can say playoffs this and playoffs that, you'll never be able to know how much of that was dependent on others or not. How would Steve do on the teams Jake was on in the playoffs? We'll never know. Best we can do is look at his stats and come up with the best guess. I can probably guess he wouldn't have thrown all those INTs in the Arizona game. The stats are the only ones that don't lie or bring emotion into it. Individually Steve was better. If you want to talk about Jake's fire or whatever, then we're talking about 2 different lists that I described earlier.

 

We aren't going to see eye to eye on this so there isn't much point in continuing this. I'll leave you with this, if Steve played on such aweful teams, why are so many of his teammates including Sean Gilbert, in your top Panthers of all time list? The one clear deficiency in the Buerlein years was Seifert.

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KillerKat Grand Master

KillerKat

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We aren't going to see eye to eye on this so there isn't much point in continuing this. I'll leave you with this, if Steve played on such aweful teams, why are so many of his teammates including Sean Gilbert, in your top Panthers of all time list? The one clear deficiency in the Buerlein years was Seifert.

I already addressed this. Look at the stats. There are 2 different debates going on in this thread. 1 with a list based on stats and all-pro selections. One based on assumptions and fire and etc.

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

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The number of throws is a more accurate comparison. A throw is a throw.

So you think Delhomme is better than Drew Brees?

You're making assumptions yourself in this debate. You're assuming Beuerlein isn't good and it was the system. You're also cherry picking a situation to best fit your argument.

This is what I want to take out of discussions when I make my list. No emotions, assumptions, cherry picking, or debates. I look at the numbers. I also remember watching Beuerlein too with my own eyes.

Where in the world would Drew Brees into the debate? That's pretty left field.

And speaking of left field, where did I say Beuerlein wasn't good? I said he's my number three. Pretty sure most on here would agree with that.

Bottom Line: If you want a real comparison, you have to look at the real world. Numbers can be deceiving, and inflated completion percentages for West Coast QBs are a prime example.

If you're really wanting to stick by this 'stats alone' approach, you might wanna take a look at where that would leave Cam in relation to other QBs last season.

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TheRed Newbie

TheRed

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Posted

16-game Season Average-

Delhomme-

10-6 W/L, 59.3% Cmp, 3,386 Yd, 21 Td, 15 Int

Newton-

8-8 W/L, 59.8% Camp, 3,766 Yd, 21 Td, 14 Int

It's shameful that people are already diminishing what Delhomme accomplished here.

 

I don't agree with diminishing what Delhomme did in his time here, but they played on different teams and were asked to play different roles in the offense. Are you including Cam's rushing yards and touchdowns in that? Cam was the leading rusher in 6 games last year...

 

Delhomme through his first three seasons (with Carolina):

 

10,667 total yards, 75 total touchdowns, 47 interceptions

 

Newton through his first three seasons:

 

13,331 total yards, 92 total touchdowns, 42 interceptions

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iamhubby1 Veteran

iamhubby1

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I already addressed this. Look at the stats. There are 2 different debates going on in this thread. 1 with a list based on stats and all-pro selections. One based on assumptions and fire and etc.

Actually there is only 1 debate going on. Yours, and everyone else's. You are arguing for "pure stats" against stats, play, and fandom. Which, in my mind, is how it is supposed to be.

Just because you need to be right, does not make it so.

 

 

Beuerlein, 5 years-

6 GW drives, 0 winning seasons

Delhomme, 7 years-

24 GW drives, 3 winning seasons, 5 playoff wins

But, but, but, stats. Steve had some good years for sure. But if I want a QB to lead my team. I want Jake. His fire and leadership are, wait for it, Legendary.

But, by KK's standards, the "Best of" list would be a bunch of 1 or 2 year players that had great years. Rentals if you will. Not really "All time" type Panthers if you ask me.

But that is just KK being KK.

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KillerKat Grand Master

KillerKat

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Where in the world would Drew Brees into the debate? That's pretty left field.

And speaking of left field, where did I say Beuerlein wasn't good? I said he's my number three. Pretty sure most on here would agree with that.

Bottom Line: If you want a real comparison, you have to look at the real world. Numbers can be deceiving, and inflated completion percentages for West Coast QBs are a prime example.

If you're really wanting to stick by this 'stats alone' approach, you might wanna take a look at where that would leave Cam in relation to other QBs last season.

They have the same rushing stats too?

I brought up Brees because it sounds like that just because Beuerlein was in a WCO means what he did is less. Brees is in a pass heavy offense. So I would think you would think less of him too.

I also brought up interception percentage and QB rating too. Not just completion percentage.

Also you didn't answer why you put Delhomme ahead of Beuerlein even though the stats say otherwise.

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KillerKat Grand Master

KillerKat

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Actually there is only 1 debate going on. Yours, and everyone else's. You are arguing for "pure stats" against stats, play, and fandom. Which, in my mind, is how it is supposed to be.

Just because you need to be right, does not make it so.

 

 

But, but, but, stats. Steve had some good years for sure. But if I want a QB to lead my team. I want Jake. His fire and leadership are, wait for it, Legendary.

But, by KK's standards, the "Best of" list would be a bunch of 1 or 2 year players that had great years. Rentals if you will. Not really "All time" type Panthers if you ask me.

But that is just KK being KK.

There are a couple posters in this conversation that put outside factors into this and me telling them that those belong on another list. Yea, me saying I'm talking about something different really means I'm right. Nice reading comprehension there.

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KillerKat Grand Master

KillerKat

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Posted

Actually there is only 1 debate going on. Yours, and everyone else's. You are arguing for "pure stats" against stats, play, and fandom. Which, in my mind, is how it is supposed to be.

Just because you need to be right, does not make it so.

 

 

But, but, but, stats. Steve had some good years for sure. But if I want a QB to lead my team. I want Jake. His fire and leadership are, wait for it, Legendary.

But, by KK's standards, the "Best of" list would be a bunch of 1 or 2 year players that had great years. Rentals if you will. Not really "All time" type Panthers if you ask me.

But that is just KK being KK.

And my best of list would include what is supposed to be on an All-Time list. The best players. It's only common sense.

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