Darin Gantt's Panthers Draft Needs

[MHS831]

I wish we could have kept Mitchell and Ginn and bettered the offer to Collins and Nicks. All could have been done with money left over from tagging Hardy.

But Gettelmen choose that route to make sure he can keep the best De in Fa not rent him on a prove it deal.

I'm still waiting for you to tell me what team has ever rented a player for 13 million dollars and it was considered a good move??

You can be blind to the facts but if Gettelmen doesn't get a long-term deal with Hardy. Knowing what he was sacrifice to a attempt it. Imo is a complete fug up.

Then to pile on the fug up and take a DE in early is crazy.

 

Let me tell you about facts.  If Gettlemen lets Hardy walk and CJ is underperforming his contract, he has no choice but to keep CJ because he lets Hardy walk in 2014, hires an aging journeyman for a year or so, and where is he sitting in 2015?  This way he has a choice between CJ and Hardy before he signs Cam.  Funny that you never mention the cap, the future cap, etc when you talk about facts. 

 

The facts? Sign a free agent OT--all the best LTs can be found in free agency--and let Hardy walk, locking you into CJ for the near future?  You would rather have a rookie DE, Hardy, Collins, and Nicks?  You think like a fan, not a GM, so perhaps you should not criticize the GM if you are not going to consider the full scope of his job.

 

[MHS831]

This part you are completely right. 

 

I just think it's crazy when you say WR and OT aren't the biggest needs right now. Yes, drafting a DE would be helping that position in the future but how can you sit back and look at WR and OT and feel ok about the future there? The depth guys at DE are much better than the depth guys at WR/OT. Plus, the new DE will have 3 studs lined up beside him. We have mediocrity everywhere at the other 2 positions. 

 

Ok....we can find some bargains to match the WRs production of last year....but we had the 27th ranked offense. It's not like we are matching greatness with the guys we signed. The WRs were decent last year. They are decent right now. So we just move on to address future problems?

 

I think there are some who want Gettlemen to suck so they can say they were right.  He is doing beautifully, if you ask me, and I am including the Smitty situation.

 

This move gives Gettlemen very important options moving forward considering the reality of the cap.  DE and QB are pretty important parts, and right now, I do not think Gettlemen wanted to pay Hardy at his peak when he can watch him for another season before entering the Cam deal--it will change the cap and the roster.  CJ and Hardy will not be Panthers in 2015 unless some reasonable deals are negotiated.

 

[TylerVagyler]

I think there are some who want Gettlemen to suck so they can say they were right.  He is doing beautifully, if you ask me, and I am including the Smitty situation.

 

This move gives Gettlemen very important options moving forward considering the reality of the cap.  DE and QB are pretty important parts, and right now, I do not think Gettlemen wanted to pay Hardy at his peak when he can watch him for another season before entering the Cam deal--it will change the cap and the roster.  CJ and Hardy will not be Panthers in 2015 unless some reasonable deals are negotiated.

 

Yeah, I'm fine with how Gman has handled this offseason. He said free agency is used to put you in a position to go BPA in the draft and that's sorta what he's done. I think CJ will be released after this season and Hardy then signs a long-term deal. We should be in a much better cap situation in the next couple years and not dishing out big contracts this offseason will be one of the reasons why. 

 

With that said, I won't be mad if they draft a DE in the first but I will be disappointed. 

[MHS831]

Yeah, I'm fine with how Gman has handled this offseason. He said free agency is used to put you in a position to go BPA in the draft and that's sorta what he's done. I think CJ will be released after this season and Hardy then signs a long-term deal. We should be in a much better cap situation in the next couple years and not dishing out big contracts this offseason will be one of the reasons why. 

 

With that said, I won't be mad if they draft a DE in the first but I will be disappointed. 

 

It really depends on the draft--if there is a big run on WRs and OTs, then I could see being happy with a DE--but if Cooks or Martin is sitting there, I would be disappointed.

 

I have been disappointed after several drafts and proven to be wrong.

 

[WOW!!]

Let me tell you about facts. If Gettlemen lets Hardy walk and CJ is underperforming his contract, he has no choice but to keep CJ because he lets Hardy walk in 2014, hires an aging journeyman for a year or so, and where is he sitting in 2015? This way he has a choice between CJ and Hardy before he signs Cam. Funny that you never mention the cap, the future cap, etc when you talk about facts.

The facts? Sign a free agent OT--all the best LTs can be found in free agency--and let Hardy walk, locking you into CJ for the near future? You would rather have a rookie DE, Hardy, Collins, and Nicks? You think like a fan, not a GM, so perhaps you should not criticize the GM if you are not going to consider the full scope of his job.

No what I want to happen (and hope is happening) is getting a long term deal with Hardy. Not renting him for 13 million. And I also hope that Gettelmen had the for site to see the advantages this draft was offering him. And that's why Gettelmen made the moves with the offense because he planned to use the best WR draft in decades.

[WOW!!]

Let me tell you about facts. If Gettlemen lets Hardy walk and CJ is underperforming his contract, he has no choice but to keep CJ because he lets Hardy walk in 2014, hires an aging journeyman for a year or so, and where is he sitting in 2015? This way he has a choice between CJ and Hardy before he signs Cam. Funny that you never mention the cap, the future cap, etc when you talk about facts.

The facts? Sign a free agent OT--all the best LTs can be found in free agency--and let Hardy walk, locking you into CJ for the near future? You would rather have a rookie DE, Hardy, Collins, and Nicks? You think like a fan, not a GM, so perhaps you should not criticize the GM if you are not going to consider the full scope of his job.

Also Cj is underperforming his contract? ? Really?? He has like 36 sacks in 3 years. Also 1 of the best run defenders in the league. I can't wait to see what JPP or the other DE'S get. So we can really see his value.

[MHS831]

Also Cj is underperforming his contract? ? Really?? He has like 36 sacks in 3 years. Also 1 of the best run defenders in the league. I can't wait to see what JPP or the other DE'S get. So we can really see his value.

 

He is good, but not that good.  Look at his stats compared to others in his pay grade.  It is no newsflash that we overpaid for Johnson.  However, I said that to trap you into a situation where your logic is exposed.  If CJ is not overpaid and is earning his contract, how can you say that Hardy is worth the same money?  That is what it takes to keep him here on a long-term deal.  If you slow down and consider the fact that Hardy wants to be paid on his 2013 performance alone--that is the scale he chose--then it is smart to tag him for another season.  Maybe the DE they want to keep emerges.  Of course, your philosophy is to keep both DEs, sign a stud LT and WR in free agency, and then sign Cam to a $20m per deal during the 2014 season.   Why didn't anyone think of that?

 

Tell me, did you oppose the Jon Beason draft pick?  We had Morgan.  Did you oppose the Luke Kuechly pick?  We had Beason.  BPA tends to work itself out.  If we draft Ealy in the first, then I get it.  Gettlemen does not want to be held hostage again.  Are there WRs in the second round?  Are there Tackles available in the third? 

 

Yes. This is football from the GM' s perspective, which is probably why you don't like him.  He is not a free-spending, mortgage-the-future guy. 

[MtnJax]

Kony Ealy at 28 if he is there. Just watch

[WOW!!]

He is good, but not that good. Look at his stats compared to others in his pay grade. It is no newsflash that we overpaid for Johnson. However, I said that to trap you into a situation where your logic is exposed. If CJ is not overpaid and is earning his contract, how can you say that Hardy is worth the same money? That is what it takes to keep him here on a long-term deal. If you slow down and consider the fact that Hardy wants to be paid on his 2013 performance alone--that is the scale he chose--then it is smart to tag him for another season. Maybe the DE they want to keep emerges. Of course, your philosophy is to keep both DEs, sign a stud LT and WR in free agency, and then sign Cam to a $20m per deal during the 2014 season. Why didn't anyone think of that?

Tell me, did you oppose the Jon Beason draft pick? We had Morgan. Did you oppose the Luke Kuechly pick? We had Beason. BPA tends to work itself out. If we draft Ealy in the first, then I get it. Gettlemen does not want to be held hostage again. Are there WRs in the second round? Are there Tackles available in the third?

Yes. This is football from the GM' s perspective, which is probably why you don't like him. He is not a free-spending, mortgage-the-future guy.

Who is in CJ pay scale now??

He's outperformed Mario Williams and Julius Peppers who both were slated to make more.

I think Hardy is on a better career path then CJ was. Compare Cj 3rd year (where he broke out) to Hardy's 3rd year. So yes I think Hardy deserves the same. I also think Pass rushers like QB and Lt are value positions. So you pay to keep these positions strong over others. Specially when you have 2 proven commodities. Hardy numbers haven't decreased so your point is null and void. As a starter the last 2 years he has 26 sacks. So last year was his prove it year and he did that. It's time to pay the man.

Morgan was hurt dealing with concussion and for a Mlb that's a career killer injury. So yes I had no problem with the drafting of Beason. This is not the same situation.

As a GM you can't be held hostage but you have to keep your young talent home. He also already put himself in a hostage situation when he tagged Hardy and let other players walk. This off-season changed to the "keeping Hardy at all cost" move when he did that. So if he doesn't get a long-term deal with him he failed. If he takes a DE 1st he failed. There are to many other needs to not find a player. That starts and fix a hole from day one. Instead of making your top draft pick ( who will be a rotational player if it's a position in the front 7) and top Fa move allocated to the same position. That is a fail in my opinion.

[panthers55]

Is CJ overpaid?  Yes he is.  He is productive and he is consistent but honestly no DE is worth 17 million this year and 19 million next year.  His contract was likely meant to be restructured just like Smith's was as well.  The problem with that philosophy is what happened to Smitty and was is happening to Johnson.  They don't want to restructure particularly if it means less overall money.  With Smitty it was clear cut as his production was dropping but with CJ he really hasn't fallen off.  But again is he worth the money he is making.  Honestly no player outside of quarterback is worth that much.

 

He is 2nd in cap hit behind Mario Williams and third in salary behind Williams and Hardy in salary this year.  Meanwhile as DEs go he is 8th in sacks behind Hardy and guys making much less than him and 89th in tackles including 3rd on our defensive line behind Hardy and Star.

 

By the way Mario Williams is way over paid as well.

[MHS831]

Is CJ overpaid?  Yes he is.  He is productive and he is consistent but honestly no DE is worth 17 million this year and 19 million next year.  His contract was likely meant to be restructured just like Smith's was as well.  The problem with that philosophy is what happened to Smitty and was is happening to Johnson.  They don't want to restructure particularly if it means less overall money.  With Smitty it was clear cut as his production was dropping but with CJ he really hasn't fallen off.  But again is he worth the money he is making.  Honestly no player outside of quarterback is worth that much.

 

He is 2nd in cap hit behind Mario Williams and third in salary behind Williams and Hardy in salary this year.  Meanwhile as DEs go he is 8th in sacks behind Hardy and guys making much less than him and 89th in tackles including 3rd on our defensive line behind Hardy and Star.

 

By the way Mario Williams is way over paid as well.

 

Thank you.  Gettlemen is aware of the situation you describe at DE and is not going to have $30+m absorbed in 23 sacks per season from 2 DEs.

Great comparison to Smitty.  That is what Hurney did--he gave ridiculous contracts and then guaranteed unguaranteed money through restructuring as the player continued to perform.  What we are dealing with is the aftermath of Hurney, which is what Gettlemen means when he refers to Cap Hell.  This kind of logic and finance is, as you suggest, unsustainable, something some fans don't comprehend.

 

But if you say anything about Hurney, they say something like "Get over it.  How long are you going to blame Hurney?"  as if his contracts terminated when he was.

[MHS831]

Kony Ealy at 28 if he is there. Just watch

I think he will be, and he could be the BPA too.

[WOW!!]

I think he will be, and he could be the BPA too.

I think he will be Everett Brown 2.0.

Other then Clowney most scouts are saying this is a weak 4-3 DE draft. But yeah lets take a De in the 1st round.

[UpstatePanther]

Drafting a serviceable De takes time. Because the guy has to prove he's that. It's to late trying a move like this. When Gettelmen tagged Hardy and let other players walk. That locked him into making sure Hardy got a long term deal.

 

you make it seem like it was an arbitrary, split-second decision to tag Hardy and let other players go. if there is one thing Gettleman does well, its making good calculated decisions. this seems no different to me. i find it hard to believe that Gettleman was simply being reactionary through the first week of free agency. its just not the way he does business. he seems to examine every aspect, every possibility. he's the type that has contingency plans. its just unreasonable to me to suggest that tagging Hardy was a rash decision that will severely hurt the Panthers.