Okay I have 4.5 days to pass a drug test

[sharkkiller]

Its not about integrity, its about a test being silly and pointless.  If I just quit smoking weed for a few weeks, then resume after I pass the test, would you consider that cheating?

 

If you want to fire me for being bad at my job, thats one thing.  If you want to fire me for how I spend my free time, thats stupid.  I havent had a problem quitting weed for a test, but to be honest it probably doubled my alcohol consumption.  I guess if thats what you wanted...

 

 

But it is about integrity. Whether you agree with the test or not, it is a requirement for the job.

 

Let's put it in this scenario:

 

You have to take an exam to graduate from college. You think it is a stupid test, because you already completed the requirements to graduate, but the University says you have to take this test.

 

Now, is it ok for you to cheat on this exam, just because you think it is stupid? 

 

The morally correct answer is no. 

The smart answer is no, if for no other reason than if you get caught you get kciked out of the school and do not graduate. 

 

The legality or morality of weed has never been the point of this thread, except to the OP, who decided that going on the offensive and insulting everyone who posted an alternate view was going to gain him sympathy, and ideas for how to cheat a drug test.

[Happy Panther]

Philosophers have been arguing for millennia on what makes up morality and can't agree yet some huddlers figured it out in a couple of days.

 

Morality is too vague for me to label something like this.

 

It is a simple business decision and every decision has potential consequences. In this case you fail a drug test, don't get the job and nobody else in the world knows about it. Pretty harmless so I don't see anything wrong with it. And it doesn't harm me in anyway.

 

Cheat on an exam...possibly get expelled from school. Not so harmless. But if an individual is comfortable with accepting the consequences that his decision to make. Doesn't harm me again (might harm those close to him)

 

 

[8 0 5]

Stay tuned fans, the results will be posted here shortly.

[sharkkiller]

Philosophers have been arguing for millennia on what makes up morality and can't agree yet some huddlers figured it out in a couple of days.

 

Morality is too vague for me to label something like this.

 

It is a simple business decision and every decision has potential consequences. In this case you fail a drug test, don't get the job and nobody else in the world knows about it. Pretty harmless so I don't see anything wrong with it. And it doesn't harm me in anyway.

 

Cheat on an exam...possibly get expelled from school. Not so harmless. But if an individual is comfortable with accepting the consequences that his decision to make. Doesn't harm me again (might harm those close to him)

 

I agree that in the grand scheme of things, a persons own morality depends on what he or she views as good or bad. But there are certain things that as a society have been deemed immoral. Cheating of any kind is one of those things, whether on a drug test, a school exam, a spouse, or a sporting event.

 

By completely personalizing your morality, and not bothering to adhere to social norm, you are freeing yourself up to justify anything you want to do, because it "doesn't harm me". That is the first step towards anarchy. I kno, I know...big jump, but think about it. If everyone just does what "doesn't harm me in any way" without regard to rules or consequences for other people, how would that affect society?

 

I guess you are one of those people that speeds up when your lane is about to end and cuts off the line of traffic that have been in the correct lane the entire time, because "fug 'em. doesn't hurt me any."

[Happy Panther]

I agree that in the grand scheme of things, a persons own morality depends on what he or she views as good or bad. But there are certain things that as a society have been deemed immoral. Cheating of any kind is one of those things, whether on a drug test, a school exam, a spouse, or a sporting event.

I would disagree. We all might agree that murder is immoral but there is open debate whether lying is always immoral. Some, including me, believe that immorality is measured by the potential harm (or benefit) it causes.

 

In this case he wants a job, the company wants to hire him. Lying in this case may be a good thing for both parties and harms nobody. Therefore not an immoral act.

[MadHatter]

I would disagree. We all might agree that murder is immoral but there is open debate whether lying is always immoral. Some, including me, believe that immorality is measured by the potential harm (or benefit) it causes.

 

In this case he wants a job, the company wants to hire him. Lying in this case may be a good thing for both parties and harms nobody. Therefore not an immoral act.

 

If it harmed nobody and if lying would be a "good thing" for the company.....the company would NOT have a passed drug test as a criteria for getting the job.

 

Your justification is humorous.

[Happy Panther]

If it harmed nobody and if lying would be a "good thing" for the company.....the company would NOT have a passed drug test as a criteria for getting the job.

 

Your justification is humorous.

You are assuming that pot smokers are bad salesmen.

[sharkkiller]

I would disagree. We all might agree that murder is immoral but there is open debate whether lying is always immoral. Some, including me, believe that immorality is measured by the potential harm (or benefit) it causes.

 

In this case he wants a job, the company wants to hire him. Lying in this case may be a good thing for both parties and harms nobody. Therefore not an immoral act.

 

 

So what you are saying is that if it is a benefit to you, it is OK to lie or cheat. 

 

Let's take this case for example, cheating on the drug test.

 

2 people apply for the same job, have the same qualifications, and similar work history. The company has a no drug policy, which is clearly stated during the hiring process, and backed up by the requirement to pass a drug test to be hired.

 

One person deos not do drugs, and the other smokes pot daily (in the morning, as he stated) because he has a hard time falling asleep at night (???). He has stated that he does not plan on stopping, so it would not be a big jump to assume that he would be high at least for a period of time while he was working. This person cheats on the company mandated drug test and passes.

 

The other person does not smoke pot at all, and passes the test with no problems. He may be a casual drinker, but does not drink during the day, and will not be drunk at work at any time.

 

If the first guy is hired after passing the drug test by cheating, and the second guy is left unemployed, you are saying that this is fine becuase it all worked out for the first guy?

 

What about the second guy? Are you saying that there is no harm to him? The cheating on the drug test had a direct effect on his life in a negative manner. By your definition, that makes it immoral, no?

 

Or are you looking at it from a selfish, me first, screw everybody else, until I am the one who gets screwed, then it is wrong, perspective?

[Happy Panther]

So what you are saying is that if it is a benefit to you, it is OK to lie or cheat. 

 

 

Or are you looking at it from a selfish, me first, screw everybody else, until I am the one who gets screwed, then it is wrong, perspective?

Never said anything of the sort. That is your third silly strawman

[bleys]

If it harmed nobody and if lying would be a "good thing" for the company.....the company would NOT have a passed drug test as a criteria for getting the job.

 

Your justification is humorous.

 

what would the difference be between a good salesmen who smokes weed and the alcoholic salesmen that has been with the company for years?

[TheRed]

There sure are some holier than thou types in here.

[sharkkiller]

Never said anything of the sort. That is your third silly strawman

 

Pretty harmless so I don't see anything wrong with it. And it doesn't harm me in anyway.

 

 

 

 

But if an individual is comfortable with accepting the consequences that his decision to make. Doesn't harm me again (might harm those close to him)

 

 

Never said anything of the sort? Really?

[sharkkiller]

There sure are some holier than thou types in here.

 

 

Not holier than thou. If you want to smoke pot, go ahead, but don't act like it is not a choice you are making to do so, and that the choices you make do not have consequences. And don't try to act like a victim if it has a negative impct on your life.

 

The fact is that until pot is made legal at a federal level...it is still illegal, and companies have a right to test for it and to expect their employees to abide by the rules set forth by said company.

 

I am having a hard time understanding how you can argue that breaking the rules set forth by a company you want to work for is not wrong. 

[TheRed]

Not holier than thou. If you want to smoke pot, go ahead, but don't act like it is not a choice you are making to do so, and that the choices you make do not have consequences. And don't try to act like a victim if it has a negative impct on your life.

The fact is that until pot is made legal at a federal level...it is still illegal, and companies have a right to test for it and to expect their employees to abide by the rules set forth by said company.

I am having a hard time understanding how you can argue that breaking the rules set forth by a company you want to work for is not wrong.

Lighten up.