rayzor

I don't even recognize this team anymore. Its got no fight. No tradition. No character. No identity. Its Panthers in name only. Seriously, what's the point?

The ONLY priority needs to be winning. Brand will follow. Tradition will follow. You don't create it. You can't force it. It's organic. It will come from the team itself and from the fans. Killing off "keep pounding" is a piss poor decision made by tepper. One of many. At this point I'd rather have JR (and that's not an endorsement of the old owner by any means). All Pepper has done is fug up everything. Fugging step aside or sell the team. The whole organization is an embarrassing joke.

The problem is I don't trust BC because I don't trust Rhule's opinion. Rhule was on the fence and never sure and the ONLY reason they drafted him was desperation. They fugged up and got to that point without addressing LT so they scrambled and got the only possibility left at that point and the fact they say him for so long and did whatever they could be to avoid using him at LT because they had buyers remorse. No QB is going to be successful here until they get that OL fixed. Anyone they draft, they are setting up for failure. There's no point in getting a QB without having at least an LT in place and I don't trust them to ever fix it if they don't do it this year. They fix it this year or they won't. I do think the best option is trading back. Only thing that #6 should be used for if they don't trade back is on an LT. If they use that spot to draft anything by else, they are fugged.

I'm looking at it like this. OT class might be overrated a bit and QB class might be underrated a bit. Even with that said, OT class >> QB class. LT at 6 is a better idea than QB at 6.

i hope we aren't initiating the calls. more likely to get it if other teams are initiating them. unless we have an absolute stud OT slipping down to us, trading back later in the 1st and picking up at least a second is ideal. i really hope we can pull that off.

Elaborate please. I don't get that at all from him.

Not anyone affiliated with this team.

more likely to find the next Gross in this draft than the next Cam or even Jake in this one. i think there's potential in this QB class and they might be better than i thought, but there's not one of them i would be ecstatic with at #6. If we're going to roll with a QB then...i still would prefer these guys in this order Corrall, Willis, and Pickett. I think that we'd be able to get at least one of these guys later, though, so i'm not hoping we go that direction with the 6th. First pick, imo, whether it's at 6 or later, should LT. we've put it off too long. that HAS to be the priority this year. after that they can do whatever the hell they want.

what kind of turf is he on? didn't look like grass.

same here. would prefer Corral and coming out with him and Penning would be winning, imo.

agreed on Cam would have been better with Norv or someone else that had more than his daddy's name going for him (seriously, that was one of the biggest fug ups of Ron's tenure here...and he had many). under Shula, it was run heavy, the way many successful offenses have been. it wasn't managed well. that was the issue (at least as far as Shula was concerned). run heavy offenses can and do work. whatever the case is... i think that people are selling Willis short. I think, honestly, that the vick criticisms are unwarranted. he won games. pure and simple. he was a massive headache for us the whole time he was here and i don't think many would argue that.and he did it in spite of mismanagement from the coaches he had to deal with and his admitted maturity issues. point being that he could have done much better with the tools he had if he was managed better. truth is, there hadn't really been anyone like him before so it was essentially an experiment. he had the tools, there's no denying that. whatever "style" QB he was wasn't the culprit in him being successful or not. what he had going on between his ears and how he was managed by the coaching staff and the offense they expected him to play in had more to do it than anything. but i think willis may not be the athlete vick was, but he's got the tools needed. just like any rookie, they are going to need to be handled right to find any kind of success short or long term. lumping these guys into all these made up categories is just lazy, imo. metrics used for these categories are made up by whoever wants to prove whatever point they are trying to make.

wait.... the offense with Cam was built around running? are you talking about towards the end or the whole time? i'll debate that other stuff later, just wanted to be clear about that one point because that opens up a whole other can of worms.

I'll just say going defense with the first pick would piss me off. I'm anticipating being pissed off.

It's a line drawn in the sand that people put wherever they want to put them ... often to support whatever narrative they are trying "discretely" to push. People thought that Cam was a running QB and that he wouldn't transition into the NFL or that he would have to sit behind some vet for a year. The job of a QB is to get his team down the field and into the endzone. Doesn't matter how he does it as long as he can. Obviously, the more ways you can accomplish it, the better. If you are leaning towards any one way, you better be good at it. The game is evolving, though, and being able to run is much more of a requirement than ever before. The key to success for any of them is the same for all, use what they bring to the table wisely. Be smart with it. Know how to be effective using the tools they bring and build around it and work to help them develop, giving them more tools to work with.

Hard line drawn pre-draft: no picks in '23 should be traded away. 1) take the best LT at #6 2) trade back a few spots and take the best LT and use the next pick for a QB 3) trade back and go BPA with all picks 4) go BPA with #6

And no ....that wasn't the reason Fields wasn't drafted. Seriously....

Shouldn't give it to him, because he's as much to that number as 89 is to Smitty. But Tepper and Rhule would have because it's not special to them as fans.

Actually that bar isn't set really high and probably pretty easily crossed by many in here. And that's not a commentary on how brilliant this community is

Good. Take the refs out of get he game as much as possible. Next step, make every remaining call they make able to be challenged.

You fuggin jackasses are ridiculous turning this into a tinderbox style pissing match. Locking it up in hopes that at some point some of you will grow up.

Wow that sucks. Probably some jackass looking at their phone "just for a second" didn't see him. It can wait. It can all wait. Watch the road.

He sucks. Many of us were optimistic and hopeful, but we all see it now. It was a colossal mistake. Time to move on.

Literally the first person i thought of.

Emory used to post in here several years ago. Always loved his contribution. He'd share his matchup analysis (that he was doing for all games) that was better than just about anyone besides at the time and then he'd come back and discuss it and get involved in other discussions. Very happy to see how he's grown. Definitely worth a listen.