rayzor

agreed on Cam would have been better with Norv or someone else that had more than his daddy's name going for him (seriously, that was one of the biggest fug ups of Ron's tenure here...and he had many). under Shula, it was run heavy, the way many successful offenses have been. it wasn't managed well. that was the issue (at least as far as Shula was concerned). run heavy offenses can and do work. whatever the case is... i think that people are selling Willis short. I think, honestly, that the vick criticisms are unwarranted. he won games. pure and simple. he was a massive headache for us the whole time he was here and i don't think many would argue that.and he did it in spite of mismanagement from the coaches he had to deal with and his admitted maturity issues. point being that he could have done much better with the tools he had if he was managed better. truth is, there hadn't really been anyone like him before so it was essentially an experiment. he had the tools, there's no denying that. whatever "style" QB he was wasn't the culprit in him being successful or not. what he had going on between his ears and how he was managed by the coaching staff and the offense they expected him to play in had more to do it than anything. but i think willis may not be the athlete vick was, but he's got the tools needed. just like any rookie, they are going to need to be handled right to find any kind of success short or long term. lumping these guys into all these made up categories is just lazy, imo. metrics used for these categories are made up by whoever wants to prove whatever point they are trying to make.

wait.... the offense with Cam was built around running? are you talking about towards the end or the whole time? i'll debate that other stuff later, just wanted to be clear about that one point because that opens up a whole other can of worms.

I'll just say going defense with the first pick would piss me off. I'm anticipating being pissed off.

It's a line drawn in the sand that people put wherever they want to put them ... often to support whatever narrative they are trying "discretely" to push. People thought that Cam was a running QB and that he wouldn't transition into the NFL or that he would have to sit behind some vet for a year. The job of a QB is to get his team down the field and into the endzone. Doesn't matter how he does it as long as he can. Obviously, the more ways you can accomplish it, the better. If you are leaning towards any one way, you better be good at it. The game is evolving, though, and being able to run is much more of a requirement than ever before. The key to success for any of them is the same for all, use what they bring to the table wisely. Be smart with it. Know how to be effective using the tools they bring and build around it and work to help them develop, giving them more tools to work with.

Hard line drawn pre-draft: no picks in '23 should be traded away. 1) take the best LT at #6 2) trade back a few spots and take the best LT and use the next pick for a QB 3) trade back and go BPA with all picks 4) go BPA with #6

And no ....that wasn't the reason Fields wasn't drafted. Seriously....

Shouldn't give it to him, because he's as much to that number as 89 is to Smitty. But Tepper and Rhule would have because it's not special to them as fans.

Actually that bar isn't set really high and probably pretty easily crossed by many in here. And that's not a commentary on how brilliant this community is

Good. Take the refs out of get he game as much as possible. Next step, make every remaining call they make able to be challenged.

You fuggin jackasses are ridiculous turning this into a tinderbox style pissing match. Locking it up in hopes that at some point some of you will grow up.

Wow that sucks. Probably some jackass looking at their phone "just for a second" didn't see him. It can wait. It can all wait. Watch the road.

He sucks. Many of us were optimistic and hopeful, but we all see it now. It was a colossal mistake. Time to move on.

Literally the first person i thought of.

Emory used to post in here several years ago. Always loved his contribution. He'd share his matchup analysis (that he was doing for all games) that was better than just about anyone besides at the time and then he'd come back and discuss it and get involved in other discussions. Very happy to see how he's grown. Definitely worth a listen.

He's right, there was a mistake made in that trade. Jets didn't make it, though.

good. there's a problem. get it fixed.

Packers

He's serious. Guy worships the rich.

Please someone see his potential and bite giving us a 2nd or 3rd.

Oh you kids and your little college rivalry ...... So cute.

that would be about the only way it would be a viable option. it's options/draft ammo we didn't have before. also, just us showing interest would perk the ears up for others interested in moving into the top 10 to give us a benchmark to shoot for. that would be a baseline as far as trades for that spot go.

i'd like to ensure we draft a top LT, but this would be very hard to pass up.

Cam > Willis and Pickett > Yo Gabba Gabbertt, but yes.... not far off from that situation. That said ..... Take a tackle.

This team is snake bit since tepper bought it. Picked the wrong coach who picked the wrong QB over and over and apparently tepper picked the wrong city to plant his headquarters in. Guy can't get out of his own way.