Borat

Mahomes had one bad game against the best team in the league. You don't play the SB champs 17 times a year. Rodgers is actually a great example – he's been super pissed with the coaching and personnel and still drags them to the playoffs every year.

Haha I actually go to about a Panthers game / year due to family in the area. I don’t mind when they do well, as long as it’s not at the expense of the birds.

Carolina had bottom-3 (and arguably the worst) QB play in the league last year. I don’t think it’s that much of a reach to say a Rodgers, Mahomes, etc. is worth ~4 ‘WAR’ when the “replacement level” benchmark is Darnold / shell of Cam Newton.

They’re not “rationalizations.” They’re inductive conclusions drawn from the fact that 1) Cam has been very bad for the past 3+ season, 2) didn’t have a starting job at this year’s onset, and 3) had declared months before signing that he was ready for an NFL return. Three datapoints that cast substantial doubt on a face-value reading of the tweet. Context matters.

Huh? I have zero problem with Cam’s ‘behavior’ (if it’s even fair to call it that). NFL needs more personality + fun. Cam was good for the league.

Family is from Cary / Apex, and I've followed Cam since he was in HS. He and I also have the same favorite team ;).

Don't bother doing both. Full fix on the OL. Trot Darnold and/or Cam out again and preserve cap space, or sign a ~Dalton (/ Bridgewater, but that ship has sailed) if you're really trying to clear the slate.

That and every opioid known to man and some to aliens.

It’s so bizarre to me when people take agent ‘leaks’ at face value vs. using their noodles.

Hahahaha, see the post (right on queue) replying to me above. “The Panthers abject dysfunction at the QB position for the past 2 years validates Cam as a starter, never mind that there are 35-40 QBs across the other 31 teams who are better than both”

Because they signed Tyrod Taylor, when Cam was also available, to start? And why would Cam turn down a starting gig at that stage? Also, agents put poo like this out all the time. ‘Leak’ some nebulous half-truths and hope to drive some demand. That tweet could also be read as “they wanted to sign him as a tight end” — there’s purposefully little to no info content. Playoff QB = good enough to take his current team to the playoffs. Cam and Sam aren’t anywhere close. And though Ben was helped by a team, his play was miles above either Cam’s or Sam’s this year. Re: starter, if you want to benchmark him to Darnold, who may start solely due to Panthers dysfunction, then fine, but he’s not one of the best 32 on the planet anymore. Neither is Sam.

Those were assumedly backup gigs though, which he wasn’t willing to take. The point of contention in this thread is “is Cam a playoff QB” (/ “is Cam even still a starter”). So in that sense, the lack of a gig is indeed still an indictment.

Bridgewater's QB rating in Denver (94.9) was pretty darn close to his in Carolina (92.1). And his QBR was way better (56.8 vs. 47.7) he was a far more impactful rusher in Carolina than in NO or Denver. Darnold's stats were right on top of those in his final Jets season. I agree that Newton isn't the only issue on that 0-13 stat. I'm just saying 1) the other QBs didn't really regress all that much and 2) thus, you can't throw it all on Rhule, the team, etc., especially given that Cam didn't exactly light up NE with an all-time coach.

They have a starting caliber QB, though. I would posit Panthers + Tua = wildcard.

Yeah I mean no starting QB has anywhere close to that entire Christmas list, lol. Maybe Brady when his team’s healthy, but even then, they don’t have anyone like CMC.

"When you have two QBs, you have none." Panthers have that x2. Plus, none of Bridgewater, Darnold, nor Walker were exactly luminaries elsewhere, but it's not like they totally nosedived in Panthers uniforms (vs. their prior stops). Bridgewater is easily the best of the other three, and his year in Carolina wasn't to dissimilar from his best years in NO or Minny, output-wise. Darnold looks a lot like the Jets version. And Walker started 2 games. I think it's a bit of a stretch to attribute their struggles to Rhule, when they have held pretty steady from their play for previous teams. Old Cam would transform this team. The current version is too old and injury-plagued. Sure, but that is just as much "Cam is no longer the answer" vs. "Cam is the problem." He's really not producing that differently than Darnold, et al.

Flores is a fantastic coach, but Tua is head and shoulders above any QB on the Panthers' roster. And the rest of his old team team isn't bad either. I don't think Flores in a vacuum is enough.

Frasty the Strawman

If only Cam had an all-time great coach. Then he'd certainly play like it's the early 2010s again! (It's possible for them to both be insufficient for their roles)

I don't think anyone is arguing 2011 Cam sucks. It's the current iteration who's probably not a path to the postseason.

How can you watch Cam for the past 3 years and think, "you know what, we could be playoff team with him next year?" Gee, maybe the same way they've been doing it for years? Play containment, bring pressure, and force him into quick decisions and short / intermediate, accurate throws.

Do you really wish the Panthers had outdone Indy's offer for Wentz?

Putting aside the implications for a second, that's a pretty funny quip

Bill O’Brien was an above average HC. His GM’ing got him the axe. Assuming they keep church and state separate this time, should be a good hire.

Watson was amazing behind some awful lines in Houston. But doubt he’d okay a trade, so kind of moot.