TD alt

Point taken, but he has to learn. I'd say that he certainly had problems with drops, but I don't remember any fumbling issues. He's young. I don't know that he was talking about thinking about improving while he's literally playing, as much as he's thinking about improving catching before regular season begin. The good thing about the Jugs machine, and any type of practice, is that it leads to muscle memory, which of course leads to not having to think about playing, but just playing. We'll hope for the best.

I mean, I think that we've been using them, but, like you're suggesting, maybe to a higher degree now. I would caution though to not take it out of context. It's simply a tool. The importance of it and its priority can't really be judged by us from the outside looking in. On kind of an off note, sure PFF (CFF) had Bryce ranked as the highest rated QB when he came out, but I heard a PFF analyst say that "stature" was very important in the discussion between Young and Stroud as well, and honestly he didn't know that Young would or should be the first taken. Context and the bigger picture hav to be taken into account.

Which is all I was saying from the get.

The bad thing is that Xavier Legette kind of ignored the Jugs machine his rookie season. The good thing is that he's committed to it now. Catching is important to an NFL receiver (sarcasm), but, perhaps just as important is a receiver's---any player's---mindset. "This offseason, the young wideout has gotten back to something in terms of preparation (Jugs machine). 'Oh man, it’s always been something I’ve done, and I don’t know why, but I felt like I could take a little breath,' explained Legette (via Darin Gantt of Panthers.com). 'And when you’re playing in this game, you can never do that. It’s always a way to get better, and that’s one of the ways to help with catching. For sure, for sure. In my mind, I’m thinking about ways, things I can do. What can I do to have less drops this coming season in Year 2? 'The whole mindset has changed, man,' added Legette. 'Trying to do anything I got to. I’m sacrificing a lot of things that I used to do outside of the building to put my work inside the building.'" https://www.si.com/nfl/panthers/xavier-legette-focused-on-reducing-drops-that-plagued-rookie-year-with-panthers-01k1692c0tz9 So, yeah, it wasn't good coming in taking some things for granted, but Legette is young. His mentality appears to have changed and he appears to be maturing and he's been putting in a lot of work by all accounts. I know some of you are down on him, but I still have faith. Last season was a disjointed mess in its entirety, but there were still some flashes, particularly with route running. With Legette's seemingly better fit as the WR2, mindset and focus---doing his actual job catching the ball---he should be able to improve. Lastly, I'd like to add, props to Legette for being so open about the need to improve and change his mindset. Some guys wouldn't necessarily admit that publicly. If nothing else, he's honest and down-to-earth.

And to be honest, we weren't really talking about PFF grades either. I brought it into the conversation via a pic that's LLM-related (which apparently some Huddlers took issue with) as an aside for providing more specificity than just sheer numbers

If their grading system is based upon stats, then...but keep on splitting hairs, as it suits your narrative.

PFF uses the term "context normalized-scoring," which is based upon statistics. Hell, any serious metric or analytic systems are based upon stats and expectations, and looks at what players do against those expectations, but If you don't think that stats play any part in a players grades, be wrong. At the end of the day, it's heady anyway, so everyone is not going to understand everything. I'm done with this conversation for now. But just know, it's OK to be wrong.

PFF uses these metrics in player evaluations, and use those to come up with player grades. It's NOT separate. My god!

I never said that it was "the greatest player evaluations tool," but it is a tool. You have to know how to use the tools, so...obviously PFF guys should know how to do that.

They're explaining it, but they're still using stats, just within the context of their system. Damn, man.

You're full of it. Stats are fundamental to their system.

What are all these? Could they be stats? Coverage Metrics Several standard metrics are commonly used to evaluate players' effectiveness in pass coverage. These include passer rating allowed, yards allowed per coverage snap, completion percentage allowed and PFF's 0-100 coverage grade. https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-advanced-coverage-grade?utm_source=chatgpt.com To say that PFF doesn't use stats in its grading is simply incorrect, period.

You're right, but they also use stats in the NFL per my last post, as you're so obviously trying to deny.

Pass-Blocking Stats PFF collects many stats that help define each block. https://www.pff.com/news/pro-how-pff-grades-pass-protection?utm_source=chatgpt.com

https://www.pff.com/news/pff-fc-all-you-need-to-know-about-how-grades-are-calculated?utm_source=chatgpt.com To establish the expectation for each grade, PFF uses statistical models. These models learn what typically happens in a given scenario for each facet of play by using characteristics of the event as explanatory variables and the given play-by-play grade as the response variable.

No need to review data according to some. What is this "data" of which you speak? Could it be advanced statistics? Surely not!

Umanmielen's confidence obviously isn't going to be squashed by much of anything. He's come to play from day one.

PFF explicitly said that they use advanced statistics, but you're saying they don't, and I don't understand English. Like I said, @LinvilleGorgeyou just want to be contentious. Out of everything in the thread and me even talking about Icky despite PFF, that's what you hone in on. LOL

Is it yours?

I trust that we will. Dan wanta to be practical, but also is a realist. We paid Jaycee despite the injuries; we'll pay Icky despite his pass blocking imperfections, which mainly comes down to what I call "brain farts," a.k.a. inconsistencies. The only way I can't see is paying him is that if his play just falls off a cliff, and I don't think that's realistic. Even then we may him, just at a contract commensurate with his level of production. I'd prefer they get him his money before the season, that way we'll get better value, but who knows?

Honestly...I don't mind cockiness in an NFL player, even a young buck, but if you're going to be cocky, you damned sure better well bring the juice, even with the pads on.

I mean, what are we arguing about here? I don't think anyone at this point (at least I hope) thinks that Icky is dog sh¡t. Now is he a top five OT in the league? No. Is that going to stop him from being paid like one? Maybe not if the nature of the beast---the business of player contracts and their negotiations within the context of recent history---comes into play. I think that we can all agree that Icky leaves a lot to be desired in pass pro, but is a beast in run blocking. Some suspect that he may be better as an OG, but the fact is is that even average LTs are hard to come by. As long as we don't have an elite LT, the belief that one is in the draft (and transcends other needs), the patience to wait for one to emerge, or the money and willingness to buy one, Icky is our best option. I think that we can all see that, regardless of PFF, right?

And, for the record, PFF refers to its stats (and not just as a name): https://www.pff.com/news/pro-pff-premium-stats-highlighting-all-of-pffs-advanced-metrics-and-grades They don't grade "arbitrarily" either, they use their system.

No, I have read too many things from PFF over the years; PFF specifically said that they use advanced statistics, but that statistics don't tell the entire story, which is why they came up with their system. At this point you're just being adversarial for no reason. Stats play a big role in what they do.