TD alt

Well, NFL Trade Rumors could be wrong, I don't know. Maybe they're referring to a different list or something. That aside, he's still middling (but I guess some players have to be). https://nfltraderumors.co/panthers-name-austin-corbett-starting-center/

I mean, if we're only talking "proven talent," that's one thing. Whether or not Horn is "elite" is another discussion. And you can always make an argument about how valuable oft injured, yet talented players are based on availability, I feel that's another discussion as well. I think that Ickey is proven talent. He could be considered elite at run blocking and serviceable at pass blocking as an LT. I think that he has proven to have NFL starter's level talent, but that that talent may be better as an OG than an LT. At the end of the day, I'd hate to see our team without Horn and Ickey (and Renfrow, really, but he's a lot more expendable due to depth). In my opinion, the team's talent level certainly takes a hit when they aren't playing.

PFF seems to reflect your opinion. AC played five games last season, and out of 35 qualifiers PFF ranked him 18th.

I really don't think there's anyway we end up as the least talented roster, but no need to debate it because things will begin to be revealed. I can't see a list of "proven talent" without Jaycee. If the list is proven talent I think he has to be on it. I would probably include Ekwonu and Renfrow as well. Injuries and the occasional brain fart doesn't make talent "unproven" if you will, maybe inconsistent.

I would include Renfrow in that group, just saying.

Well, if he stays healthy, he should be center for the long run. He's earned it from everything I've been reading.

Always trying to frame an argument by putting words in people's mouths, displaying juvenile clowning based upon your own words and throwing out insults when a person calls it out. That's the shtick.

First of all, you can think what you want. I've been told that I am intelligent by much better than the likes of you. Intelligent people don't really have to proclaim it. People generally just know that a person is intelligent based upon their quality of thought. In my experience, people of lower IQ and/or those who have other personal issues respond with insults because they are intimidated simply because they know they're not as intelligent. I have never self-proclaimed to be intelligent that I recall, and if I did, it's only in response to your repeated assholery. You got issues, bud. Secondly, 32 teams didn't need a QB or perceived that they needed a QB. Of the ones that did, some logically thought that there were better options, and I certainly can't say the ones that did colluded. I will say that NFL execs and coaches aren't beyond being affected by narratives based upon things other than a person's ability, are even affected by media-driven b.s., and they certainly are subject to the politics of it all, as was the case with Collin Kaepernick for example.

Simplistic argument meant to divert discussion from reality. No surprises.

See there you go with that shtick. No one, here at least, is "slobbering" over anyone. I find it "embarrassing" that y'all won't admit that Shedeur got hosed during the draft for something other than his talent and potential to play QB in the NFL. I find it highly "embarrassing" that what are supposedly educated football fans essentially co-signing a nonsensical slide by using some johnny-come-lately, ultimately nonsensical justifications for a slide to the fifth round. It is "embarrassing," but it's certainly not surprising.

Yeah, OK. Plenty of people, including an undisclosed NFL exec, disagrees about learning anything new. Sanders exceeded expectations for many people. As for what "we don't know," we can say that about some starters now, but especially rookies who have never taken a snap "when games matter."

He looked a lot better than many QBs that I've seen," and that's saying something considering that he hasn't been availed the same opportunities and resources as those QBs. And, like I told you before, he was playing "with guys who will be working at the Amazon warehouse in a couple of weeks," if you want to put it like that, and that's all he has played with since becoming an NFL employee.

I haven't seen one person anoint him a star. Now I have seen people say that his performance was not surprising, and I have seen people say that his performance was an affirmation that QB needy teams shouldn't have let him drop, and I'd say they are absolutely right. And, as I've said, the 2nd and 3rd string thing goes both ways, because that's all of what he's been playing with (even fourth stringers), and we all know that that's a big disadvantage. He deserves a better shot than he's been given, and, I dare say, he looked like a viable NFL QB. It would seem that people are simply hating on him unnecessarily for whatever reasons.

"Oddly?" Lance was super young with relatively little playing time when he was drafted. An actual good situation combined with smart coaches can make a difference. It's still early for the rookie, but from what I heard, Shough isn't looking like the next second round gem. If he hasn't distanced himself from Rattler, the Saints FO is probably already thinking about next draft.

Not a bad dart throw for a project.

“I even told him today coming off the sideline, I’m like, ‘Man, I like what you’re doing out there. Just keep doing it—we’re gonna connect, “I told him, ‘Don’t worry -- I’m gonna try and make your job easier.’” -Tetairoa McMillan to Bryce Young https://www.si.com/nfl/panthers/what-panthers-wr-tetairoa-mcmillan-said-about-bryce-young-after-first-game-together-01k2abf7esfk

FWIW, he wasn't calling plays Friday.

It's better than Cat Crave whose main writer seems more interested in shocking headlines, manufactured stories and and clickbait. Sometimes an inferior site and other sites follow that same modus operandi depending upon the writers. I'm getting to the point where I see one and say, "Oh that was written by Dean Jones," and I don't even click on it. There has been a decided lack of quality Panthers articles this year. All I can think is that Tepper and the FO must be affecting indepent news sources behind the scenes very negatively.

I get what you're saying. I do. But at the same time, I think that you're saying that you just don't really believe that Bryce has taken a step forward from bad Bryce to good Bryce. I don't think that you've really recognized the difference between Bryce of the last 10 games last season, and even much less the last three games of last season, and even lesser still the last game of last season, and Bryce before he was benched. You're not recognizing what appears to be an upward trajectory. Now I am not saying that it will continue, because I don't know, but on its face there was improvement and progress based upon the path of last season. So, in my opinion, you're discounting what was undeniable. I will say that being where the state of the franchise was coming from and in, there were growing pains from top to bottom during the beginning of a major transition. I'm sure that all the instability that comes in the aftermath of a train wreck didn't help with the offense's ceiling. With all that was going on, of course we had a so-called "low ceiling offense." But, again, the offense showed the last three weeks that maybe the ceiling wasn't as low as it appears. Now, you add in the continuity for Bryce, the O-line and a receiver who many thought was the best pure receiver in the draft (as well as possibly a veteran route technician in the slot and/or maybe an underappreciated spark plug that was playing in the giant shadow of a Heisman trophy winner), then the ceiling appears to be even higher. I don't know that we need to "add new stuff" to the offense (I don't know, maybe), but I do think that if we execute the offense efficiently, it will go a long ways towards giving headaches to the defensive opposition. Like I said before, if Bryce can just continue his ascension, I think we'll be OK. Bama Bryce, the one that has a command of the offense and give defenses fits off-schedule, gives the team a great opportunity to make legitimate noise in the league.

I never believed he was some genius. I know that that was a media narrative, but I was never convinced. I think Ejiro is way past the hot seat, and I just can't say that he even knows what he's doing.

The "few starters playing," perhaps any, goes both ways, LinvilleGorge. He played well with "camp bodies who won't be on a roster in a couple of weeks." He's been playing with them since the beginning too. But, If Mary K Cabot is correct, then Browns execs are "keeping it in perspective:" "The truth is, while the start was exciting and promising, Sanders is likely still a longshot to beat out Joe Flacco and win the starting job out of the gate," Cabot said. "Granted, he brought the juice and gave the Browns a much-needed spark, but he still has a long way to go before he can go head-to-head with Burrow in the opener and then venture into M&T Bank Stadium against the Ravens' vaunted defense and play as fast as he'd need to." The Newsweek writer, Evan Massey, gave clarification on Cabot's remark: "Basically, Sanders had a good game but that was as far as it went. He's still not viewed as a legitimate starting caliber quarterback in Cleveland." Massey feels like many people do though: "Since falling in the 2025 NFL Draft to the fifth round, Sanders has been discounted by the media. He was projected to be a first or second round pick for a reason. The talent is there for him to be a very special player in the NFL." https://www.newsweek.com/sports/nfl/browns-insider-reveals-bad-news-shedeur-sanders-2111426

You're like a tough crowd for a stand-up comic, but I understand the sentiment. But still...The first team offense didn't play that much. Even though they didn't, McMillan still had 43 yards (which would've been about 50 yards and a TD if the rookie had gotten his head around). I think that's more than just "meh." I mean you say X didn't do much, but he was only in for 6 snaps, two or three of which were run plays. I mean, he was blocking when he got thrown out. And I haven't seen the TEs legitimately be used in the regular flow of the offense since Greg Olsen left, so of course it's easy to say "meh," but were they blocking well? But again, it's not like they were in for a whole lot. Just looking at the box score, there weren't that many opportunities to shine for some of these guys, Bryce only had 6 attempts. On an off note, because it was so little, that's why I'll never understand why people think it's of paramount importance to get those snaps in. Training camp and preseason practices are much more important, particularly for starters.

If Bryce is good, then we'll be good. We ostensibly have enough firepower to be good. Between receivers, TEs and RBs, there are presumably enough legitimate receivers to move an offense effectively. We still have to base things off the regular season though because that's when we'll supposedly be putting forward our best and facing other teams' best. It's more difficult to judge the first team if they're playing against the second team. But looking at the end of last season and the acquisition of T-Mac and presumably Renfrow this season, we should be able to move the ball. "Success" is largely going to depend on Bryce.

I don't know if you missed this when I posted it, but I feel compelled to post it again. It may help give you some food for thought as to what leads to successful QB play, as well as WR play in the league. I think that you may be unduly critical of Bryce and Tetairoa due to perceived limitations. Both can actually be successful, notwithstanding perceived or even real limitations. The go-route isn't necessarily the best route in terms of efficiency, and the average go route as far as air yards is only a little over 20+ yards. Moreover, receivers get markedly more separation on the post and corner routes, and routes in general that break inwards as opposed to outbreaking routes. The go-route may be good in that it keeps defenses honest, and is great when the target is hit, but in terms of efficiency, it's arguably the least effective and gives the QB a lower probability of hitting the target, and generally limits a receivers ability to separate. But, peruse the article because I believe it may give you some insight. https://www.nfl.com/news/next-gen-stats-intro-to-new-route-recognition-model#:~:text=Targeted%20pass%20catchers%20on%20posts,)%20and%20slant%20(%2B0.26) When NFL analysts say that deep throws are throws more than 20 yards, they have a reason for doing it based on averages, and Bryce was pretty good at throwing deep passes later last season. Tetairoa was not only effective in college due to making some nice deep catches, but some analysts contend that he was even better on crossers or in the slot where he could find the soft part in a defense and then follow it up with YAC. And, to top it off he was the second-ranked WR in the nation last season at breaking tackles. I think we'll be just fine with Bryce and Tetairoa, as long as Bryce continues his trajectory that he began last year.

I understand your thoughts process, but as players and prospects, the two are really different as night and day. Shedeur looked the part of a legit NFL QB whose ceiling was starter and floor was a backup, and Richardson was always a project, projection, or a product of imagination.