Newtcase

Plenty of justified doom threads to kick it around in, so here's a positive one!

Eddy has been one of the few bright spots on the team.  Drilled the 54 yarder yesterday.  I miss the days when I thought Zane's injury might be a problem for the team.

4 minutes ago, Pejorative Miscreant said:

He didn't just go Archdale, did he?

 

Thats a damn reference right there.  

Never go full Archdale.

What are we trying to accomplish?  For argument's sake lets just say PJ plays better than Baker.  Are we a contender?  I think quite clearly, NO.  So really, the best thing that could happen is the worst thing that could happen.  PJ leads us to a few wins we wouldn't have got otherwise.  Damaging our draft position, and GASP creating a possible bridge for Rhule to cross to another year.  No Thanks.  Accept this year is lost, stop looking for hope.  

I think I'll dress up as Matt Rhule for Halloween actually.

You're saying this is not already rock bottom?

Carson Wentz is on the table too.

1. Rhule hasn't been the problem today...yet

2. Rhule has been the problem before.

Both of these things can be true.

Under Matt Rhule opponents scored 17 or more in 74% of the games.  When scoring 17 or more opponents won 96% of the games.

Do we hold the Saints under 17?

4 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Wtf were they thinking?

That we were close.

It may be due to our ownership.  I think the perennially bad teams start at the very top.  To this point David Tepper has not inspired any confidence that he can get the right people in place or that he'll move on in a timely manner when it becomes obvious he has the wrong people.

Watching Sean McDermott walk across the field after Buffalo's win last night is just soul crushing.  That man is carved from self discipline and was on our staff.  Watching Ken Dorsey's wry smile as he packed up his OC package in the booth, that man was on our staff.  I didn't see Beane, but damn, that man was on our staff.  Oh, and they were all on our staff in 2015.  Notice any difference between Buffalo and Carolina since those departures?  All the talent left the building and what was left behind and hired since is just a stinking pile of poo.  

What we have saps immediate hope.  What we don't know about this staff or future staff saps short term hope.  Overall talent, traded draft picks and coaching carousel dampens long term hope.  Yeah it's a pretty dark view at the moment.

Matt Rhule gonna trip over his boner when he see's that ESPN ranking.

So…

0-2*
 

*The Panthers were close

Mods should lock/close, duplicate to: 

Love your avatar because I'm adopting Buffalo this year.  Still a Panther's fan first and always.  

However, have always been a McDermott fan and letting him get away when we could have cut Ron early was a huge mistake for this franchise.  It certainly seems like McDermott knew where to the raid the pantry as well with so many Carolina pieces ending up in Buffalo and the franchises going in polar opposite directions.

Either way, there is little to no conflict in rooting for the Bills and it'll at least provide an interesting team to follow while we suffer through this Panthers regime.

Hey look Ma I made it!

Everything coming up aces!

2 hours ago, electro's horse said:

My main question about the bills is this

did Beane and McDermott learn from the cam experience that qb off tackle should not be the staple of the offense? That no matter his size, running should always be at best the second option?

or, is not murdering your qb glaringly obvious to anyone that isn’t hurney, Rivera, or Shula 

I suppose you didn't see the off tackle run with a few minutes left in the 4th up 21 then.

2 minutes ago, Sgt Schultz said:

I figured you understood what odds signify, others not so much

The concerns and unknowns we have are what really prevents me from being more optimistic than I am, and that includes how the HC will handle things.  History says he will not handle them very well by NFL standards, but we'll let that play out.

I will say this: in this or another thread somebody mentioned that they thought Tampa was teetering on the edge of regressing.  I think they are closer than that.  If Brady does not play the full season they are in trouble and going over the edge and into the abyss.  And that is not an "if" but a "when."  Brady's body could tell him that it is 45, he could get injured (particularly if their OL stinks), on the previous OL assumption, Brady has been reduced to ordinary or worse in the past when he has been consistently been in danger in the pocket (that's how the Giants handled him twice in Super Bowls), or his wife could convince him it is either playing or her (which sounds like it could be the gossip of the week) and he decides another year is not worth that price when the risk of being carried out is factored in.

But, our chance essentially includes the Bucs going over the edge this year and the Saints being more what I think they are than the bettors.  I don't factor in the Falcons, either.  While there is a lot of money to be made betting on them, the chances are better I will see trees tap dancing out my window while I am sober than that bet paying off.

It would be interesting to know how many putting money one the Saints are experienced bettors vs. those who shout "who dat" as they place their bet.

Respect.

I think most teams are teetering in the sense of relying on their starting QB to play well and stay healthy.  We're a Baker hangnail away from PJ being #1.  Ostensibly, Brady should be more fragile than Baker but Brady is quite experienced in managing risk on the field and will make sound business decisions.  I tend to believe if Tom didn't think he had it anymore he would walk away, but that's my perception of how I think he should value his legacy.  He may very well just be another guy that plays too long and the cliff he walks off is apparent to everyone.

I think the race between the Saints and Panthers is much closer than the spread.  Largely because we know what Jameis is until proven otherwise.  Same argument for Rhule.

1 minute ago, Sgt Schultz said:

That's true, but the handicappers are not evaluating the odds of something happening, just handicapping what those betting are saying the odds are of that something happening.  The handicappers win more often than they lose because those supplying the data for the odds lose more often than they win.

In this case, I think the odds look pretty realistic except that I think the house is going to make a decent haul on people betting on the Saints.

Excellent reply, and crowd sourced data (in the form of bets) tends to land fairly accurately which is why the whole system works.  Largely because big money that moves lines is much more informed money than a feeling or homerism.  I agree the Saints and Bucs have a wider spread of outcomes than they did just a few weeks ago, frankly so do the Panthers.  No one is going to give this team juice until we prove something though.  It's easy to point to the concerns with Tampa and New Orleans, but our list is pretty deep too.

1. Can Matt Rhule improve?

2. Baker, new team, coming off injury?

3. Can CMC play most/full season?

4. Does someone not named CMC/Moore become a threat?

5. O-line, we will improve enough to compete in the trenches.

6. D-line, we will be able to generate enough pass rush?

7. Jaycee Horn coming off injury, will he be what he was early last year?

8. Ordinary depth concerns any team would have.

Lots of uncertainties for the Panthers and those were just off the top of my head.  I'd love to see it come together this season, we have the talent to compete.  

Vegas Odds for NFC South:

Tampa Bay Buccaneers -280
New Orleans Saints +320
Carolina Panthers +1100
Atlanta Falcons +3500

It's the NFL, anything can happen and there are a few surprise teams every season.  Vegas handicappers are right far more often than wrong.

I'd join.

The Panthers have conditioned me to abandon hope and optimism early.

A lot of posters thinking all  the second team reps serve no purpose other than to develop Corral.  Ever consider that the coaches are evaluating other twos and needed some form of credible QB play to do so.  No reason to risk Baker/Sam and PJ probably gave them the best look at everyone else.

Beyond the team regressing last year the biggest concern is how completely unprepared we looked.  Compounded with Rhule looking completely lost on the sidelines on multiple occasions and people rightfully started to recognize he and his staff were in over their head.  

If he wants to finish this year as Panthers HC then he better at least know the rules of the game and where the game clock is situated in his field of view.  There were embarrassments last year that just aren't acceptable for a professional football coach and that's not even considering how embarrassing the fugging team was.

4 minutes ago, Brooklyn 3.0 said:

With exception of a handful of years, the Panthers have always sucked. This shouldn't be shocking.

There are degrees of sucking though.  Right now we're 2001/2010 sucking level.

6 hours ago, PanthersGOATFan336 said:

So lets say we tear it all down..fire rhule. We hire the next big thing coach..hit on most of our draft picks the next 2 years. How long realistically would it take to get back the to superb owl?

How far away are we with our core and good coaching?

Would you be ok with going through a losing season next year as long as rhule is gone to get a good pick?

What is best case scenario W-L record for our potential rookie coach next year?

What would be your first steps as new coach?

We have no core.  CMC is glass.  DJ is the best WR2 in the NFL or a low end WR1.  Everyone else on offense is either JAG or worse.

Shaq, Burns, Reddick, Djax and Gilmore are above replacement and Horn flashed, but he has to prove it all again after injury.  Everyone else is JAG or worse.

ST is a disaster.

Having traded our 2nd and 3rd picks next year.  We’re saddled with either Rhulegime for another year or a new coaching staff with a total gutting likely.  Certainly a delicate cap situation with how much money is committed to CMC and our deluge of rotten QBs.

We’d have to catch lightning in a bottle to be relevant any time in the near future.  Tampa isn’t going away until Tom retires.  Green Bay won’t go away until Aaron retires.  God forbid but Dallas looks solid.  LA is a contender, Seattle is always a wild card.  SF is a wild card.  Arizona is ahead of us, could probably argue Chicago and Washington are as well.  Hell, even New Orleans and Atlanta can make a case they’re no worse than us.  That’s just the NFC.  It took 5 years after drafting Cam to be a legit contender and it didn’t last long.  

With that said we went from 1-15 in 2001 to nearly winning a Super Bowl in 2003.  So there’s a case for a quick turnaround and the NFL certainly has plenty of examples.  Right now the team feels like the Browns though.  Just cycling through possible solutions so quickly that you never even know if there was potential in patience.