Newtcase

Just now, kungfoodude said:

Mahomes sat for a year. Rodgers rode pine for multiple. Manning stunk it up in year one. Brees was trending bust after his first stop with the Chargers. Huddle legend Trevor Lawrence was cheap his first season(and honestly doesn't look like he is trending towards elite).

Sometimes it just doesn't work out the way it looks it was going to. 

Totally agree.  Just saying it shouldn't stop us from discussing what's happening in real time right in front of our eyes.  We can admire and criticize all while holding reservations that the now of things isn't the absolute.

31 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Right but this is through 4 games. Maybe Stroud never pans out. Maybe Young. Maybe Richardson. It's 4 games.

I think everyone accepts this.  It's not enlightening to point out we're four games in.

The discussions that's being had is the optics week in/out of these players, discussions you'd completely expect on a NFL message board.  The picture is one of continuous evolution, and phrases like "He had IT from day one" are born from guys like Stroud that you know, had IT since day one.  Sure he has to have success a lot longer to form credibility but you can't knock the guy so far.  The same isn't true for Bryce.  He needs to find IT and continue to find it for the same credibility.  The only thing we know through four games, it that for many reasons Stroud and Richardson are out of the gate much better than Bryce.

Well Miles, I'll tell ya what I'm tired of.

I'm tired of any Panther that makes any type of ordinary play celebrating like they just clinched the division.  Pelvis thrusting, shimmy shakes, chest bumps, knee wobbles, spider posing, firm 1st down thrusts, roid rage squat shouts...seen em all, and most them on like literally just the play you should make.

These celebrations are as tone deaf as calling out fan boos.  You and the rest of this organization should just be thankful that you're part of the NFL because you wouldn't make it on your own merits at this moment.

The NFL is some grown ass men, many of them fierce and fighting through tons of adversity to get their opportunity.  Physical attributes will never be a bad thing, lack of them almost always is. 

Just now, br2nc0 said:

It proves that BY is hitting his reccievers, it turn proving that accuracy isn't as issue. Coupled with the fact that our WRs are last in separation in the league, it proves that BY's hitting his receivers isn't a BY issue, but a WR issue. It also proves how scared and incompetent the coaching staff is on BY.

Well lets unpack this.

It's hard to consider his accuracy as passable when he hasn't even attempted a pass beyond 20 yards.  Most reasonable minds would expect a high completion from any QB with so many short passes.  They're called high percentage plays for a reason.

By what metric are you claiming we have the least separation?  There has been some quality film break down that shows Bryce isn't seeing or attempting the pass when the play IS there, and trust me there are plays with open options.  Dalton gave us a fine example of what's possible with our WR group in what was a certainly a harsher setting than the Vikes at BoA yesterday.  I suppose the alternative is you think we magically only had receivers open beyond 20 yards that one time Dalton played.

Blaming coaching here is pure conjecture.  Bryce is the trigger man, most route trees have options at various depths.  Clearly Bryce is declining to throw beyond shallow routes, eliminating a large part of NFL concepts.  He's also audibling a fair amount at the line.  In the end we can only be certain of three things.  One, we don't know the call or the intention of the call.  Two, Bryce hasn't attempted a pass beyond 20 yards. Three, the offense performed differently with Dalton.

But don't let logic get in the way of your narrative.

48 minutes ago, countryboi said:

That’s why it’s less than 32 starting caliber quarterbacks in the world.

There are way less than that.

22 minutes ago, br2nc0 said:

Bryce is one of the most accurate Qbs in the league.

Do you honestly believe you're adding anything constructive to the conversation?

7 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

The manning comparison is fuging wild

Yeah we clearly have Peyton fugging Manning on our hands here and are just too blind to see it.

1 hour ago, CPF4LIFE said:

Bryce is closer to being a college football analysis than a all pro Qb right now. That's just the truth. He has to figure it out for himself if he wants to play in the league a long time. I dont think its about the coaches and talent like some people say. Sorry, im just not buying it. Some All time great college players didnt amount to anything in the league. If you are convinced a guy doesn't have to prove himself in the pros based off what he did in college then you are really lost. 

If comments were play results this is a 40 yard laser.  

Bryce stans think we scored 13 points and that isn't too bad.

I mean, he's not wrong.

Right now we're just a comedy, the opportunity to become a complete laughing stock is in play.

Just now, TheCasillas said:

I am not making any point but sharing the chart that relates to what Reich said in his presser. you all are looking for more. I am sharing the game plan we took it from.

Except you have no clue what game plan we took from it, you can only hypothesize based on a comment.  You're not in the headset hearing which calls BY is deciding to kill, kill kill.  Our plan may have been to challenge the field periodically and it just never happened.  That's my hypothesis and it's worth as much as yours.

8 minutes ago, TheCasillas said:

Reich said "we saw what the Chargers did last week" and I am just sharing we did the exact same thing.

Ok.  Not sure what point you're really making here.  I don't think anyone would argue against the fact that short passes occur all the time, literally no one.  What everyone is discussing here is that Bryce cannot attempt, much less complete a deep pass.  So to have that discussion you hold up a Herbert straw man that literally has nothing to do with Bryce not passing deep?

All the Bryce stans blamed our play calls and receivers for the first two weeks.  Then when Dalton showed both the calls and receivers could work, they blamed Seattle's defense even though it was clearly a strong defensive showing in a very hostile environment.  Finally, BY goes back in against another very poor defense at BoA and suddenly we can't complete a downfield pass....again....and we're throwing up Herbert pass chart comparisons.  This is all just intellectually dishonest.  Bryce can be bad and still have potential at the same time, but pretending this is all normal is not how I see it.

8 minutes ago, TheCasillas said:

LOL

What is the purpose here?  To show Herbert can throw deep and short?  The fact that you'd even drop Herbert's pass chart as if he and Bryce are almost on the level is a bit numbing.  

1 minute ago, RumHam said:

3. I mentioned last week about Hunter Henry as he isn't involved in the offense and i guess he gets paid as much as Ian Thomas, who is awful. Why the fug is Ian Thomas on this team? Why was he even in on that play and why isn't Henry the one making the play? Henry has hands, runs routes, but Ian Thomas still has a job. This team has always had these legacy players that for some reason get held onto b/c people think they have potential, but then they do end up somewhere else, they're either cut or never get signed. Ian Thomas wouldn't play anywhere else in this league, yet he's been here it seems ten damn years.

I think you mean Hayden Hurst.

2 hours ago, NAS said:

If you look at my post history I was a CJ Stroud guy, so miss me with being a Bryce fanboy or coddler.    However, I think the kid can be a really good QB if he gets put into a better situation.   I don't know if he will be great, or have the same ceiling as AR or Stroud,  but I think we should lookin in the mirror and self reflect by asking ourselves a few questions:

1. Is it Bryce Young's fault that Panthers traded up to pick him at #1? 

Your anger should be directed at the FO not the rookie QB who is trying to develop in an extremely difficult situation.

2. If Bryce was 6'2" instead of 5'10" and had the same identical performances, would you feel the same away about his progress as a rookie QB? 

Be honest.  You would probably give him a much longer leash but you're playing into the optics of him being small as the reason for not performing better.  

3.  If Ian Thomas catches the TD on the ball that hit him in the hands, or Bryce has even decent offensive line protection, Panthers win the game yesterday and Bryce wins with over 100 QB rating and Panthers are 1-3 instead of 0-4.    Would you still be saying he's a bust?  

I'm just saying, 3 games into his career, this is a major overreaction.  Trevor Lawrence was terrible most of his rookie year, but people didn't call him a bust because he's tall,  Jaguars didn't trade up to get him, and he had a terrible coach.  Bryce should at least get a chance to play out his rookie year and support him along the way.

 

1.  Not at all.  

2. Bad is bad.  Personally, I've just commented on what I've seen play out.  Being short isn't an optic, it's a physical trait btw.  I do think BY has serious issues seeing the field and it's the biggest limiting factor so far.

3. That ball, why catchable needed more air.  Not going to bother playing what if with you, we have actual results to discuss.

For the love of god, stop comping BY to anyone.  Peyton Manning, Trevor Lawrence or whoever else is the flavor of the day for "was bad at some point" validation.  Jimmy Clausen was also terrible and stayed terrible, means nothing.  Bryce is his own man with his own trajectory, one which we're in the midst of at the moment.  2023 is a lost season already, we're going to see plenty more of Bryce.  I hope that against obvious odds the kid can put it together, but legitimately fear the height concerns were well founded.

Andy Dalton is the best offensive player we have, followed closely by Thielen.

Derrick Brown has broken away as the best defensive player.

The truth is staring at all of us.

If the draft were tomorrow where does Bryce Young go?

1 minute ago, Icege said:

I mean, there is though.

You're saying that we're straight up paying $55M for folks to not play for us, which simply isn't true when given the context. For example, those DJ Moore + CMC numbers are from trades for draft picks. The way these are typically evaluated (as Casillas pointed out in a previous post somewhere, maybe not this thread) are by a point system based on how much the teams believe a player is "worth." This isn't simply a "We're just paying people to not pay for us." This is a, "We traded two of our premiere players for draft capital (one of them being a move up to #1 for a potential franchise QB)."

When you remove those two players (DJ + CMC), that $55M falls to $21M. That's less than half of the number you're pitching a fit over. If you go even further and remove the Chosen Anderson contract (which was universally regarded as a bad extension), that number drops to ~$12M. This is during a season where the league average for dead cap is nearly $29M for a team.

Your current presentation of the issue is limited to your frustration which excludes the circumstances involved. As a result of you choosing to dismiss said context, you've come across as being misleading.

Relax guy, no one is pitching a fit.  Just stating that we're paying a lot of money for players not on the roster, which is true no matter how you chop up the conversation.  I appreciate the deeper explanation on DJ and CMC and how that is nuanced.

With your explanation I think we can agree that amounts to us paying 34mil for Bryce Young and DJ Johnson in 2023.

I think the merit of paying Burns survives under either circumstance.  Just my opinion.

Just now, TheCasillas said:

Did you not read my comment? 

Yeah I did, the one where you said part of our dead money was restructures?  That was a chuckle.

Otherwise, my point stands we have 55mil in dead money.  That is to say, 55mil of our 2023 cap space is committed to players who aren't on the team.  There is nothing misleading about that.

3 minutes ago, TheCasillas said:

Kind of misleading since 33 million of that is from the CMC and DJ Moore trades. 
 

Robby Anderson is the bonehead one with the 9 mill in dead cap… the rest is cuts and restructures 

How is it misleading?  Which of these players are on the roster?

I mean we're paying 54mil in dead money this year.  If we can pay players 54 mil to not play here I'm pretty sure we could pay Burns 28-30mil to do his thing.

Edit: We have another 25mil on IR.

2 hours ago, Jmac said:

Ride this season out and come back better next year.

This should be a Panther's t-shirt at this point.