Newtcase

I have no issue getting behind Bryce when he deserves it. Here's one of my posts after the Green Bay game last year.

Well to be fair those are just the arguments that normal fanbases have unless you clearly have an answer at the position.

Cherry picking one statistic to support your argument without context isn't good faith debate. For example, I could cherry pick bad throw %, of which Bryce was the worst in the league by a mile at 21.5%. But that would lack the context of pressure, wr quality, play calling, quality of opponent and many other context pieces that may help explain why he threw so many poor passes. Cherry picking interception percentage ignores how lucky he may have been with dropped interceptions, which was quite lucky by the way. It was almost extraordinary how many interceptions he threw that were between the numbers and dropped. It also ignores weather, injuries, quality of opponent, hell maybe the receiver fell or didn't fall for another guy. The point being a single stat in a vacuum does nothing but make your argument look feeble. Look I get it, you like Bryce or at least you're a glass half full guy. Anyone else with a shred of doubt is a hater or cynic, always dismissing the possibility that we're just Panthers fans commenting on what we've observed. I would be thrilled for Bryce to blow up and make us relevant this year. I wouldn't give one single shitz about the crowd in here that would rush to tell me how wrong I was. I'm capable of observing what's happened and judging just that. I want to see quality football. I linger on this board all day because I'm obsessed with the Panthers not because I'm obsessed with shitting on Bryce.

**In this space team management actually believed removing CMC and DJ Moore, while keeping Burns was the right move** MY GOD

Once again your points are spot on, very well written. I'd like to expand your post if I may. Under Tepper the concert of moves has been such that there has always been more than one possibility for the biggest failure. 2019 - Rivera caught the heat and lost his job. A shadow form of Cam and/or Hurney could have been more to blame. Tepper probably just wanted to get his guy anyway. 2020 - Hurn dog eats it this year even though Rhule and the beginning of QB purgatory could have more to blame. Tepper probably wanted his own GM as well though. Although this was a raw deal for Fitts as he inherits Rhule. 2021/2022 - Rhule holds the bag for this era. Next up is Fitts. Most argued both should have been fired here. A carousel of washed QBs ending with a bonanza shitshow fire sale that wasn't actually a fire sale tainted the future as well. Maybe if we had committed and shipped Burns for two firsts our whole story might be different right now. 2023 - After being allowed to pick both his coach and QB Fitts shitz the bed in the most magnificent way finally creating the first "clean the house" situation. Fitts and Reich both bite the dust along with many staff. But maybe, just maybe, the problem was Bryce. 2024 - Our "full reset" is actually more like a soft reset since Morgan's qualifications are questionable at best and a complete Fitts understudy at worst. We still have Bryce and that still brings plenty of questions. We added a complete unknown quantity at coach as well. So if, or should I say...when the Panthers stink it up again in 2024 where is the blame going to land? Bryce, Morgan, Canales? Take your pick! The beauty of Tepper's management style is you can never truly isolate the problem. EDIT: Any combination of the above can be true at the same time.

I think it's all a nothing burger. Dallas scored the most points in the NFL last season. Unless the Cowboys know something the rest of the league doesn't, I can't see them letting him walk.

What's the threshold for the amount reps that you think would make a difference? Whatever number you come up with is how many he should get IMO. Bryce was terrible last season, he should be out there earning his keep just like anyone else on the team who is being dismissed as a bum or camp fodder.

I think you are spot on. I don't even know where this QB whisperer garbage came from. Baker statistically was on par with his early Cleveland production last year and only threw for 147 yards in 9-0 win against us with the division and playoffs on the line. Not making a statement on Canales other than I don't think his resume is head coach quality. Doesn't mean he won't be, to me it just means it's yet another gamble.

We'd have to accidentally get trapped into a situation like this. Canales has already told us there is no QB competition in Carolina. Imagine not having to compete for the job of "NFL QB", it's really insane if you think about it.

Who brought their kid to work?

Jordan in the last dance....whew...they won titles though!

Our defense looking strong. Our defense is practicing against our offense. Our offense is running gassers.

I think Canales is here on a BY9 mandate. Saying there is no QB competition seems out of place for a first year head coach given how bad the team was last year. Dan and Dave have both said on every occasion they want competition up and down the roster. I can't think of any reason he would handcuff himself to Bryce unless he agreed to it for the job.

The Bucs beat us twice last year by a combined 12 points including one of the ugliest games of the year, the 9-0 finale where Baker threw for 137 yards with the division crown and playoffs on the line. Canales is a huge question mark as well.

We’re now debating how good a throw an incompletion was. The bar is lowwwww.

Just a bigger Bryce without the sunk cost.

That'd be a half decent opening drive.

Actual future photo of Dave Canales sent from week 5.

By no means am I arguing that it's all Bryce, but I would argue that he made us WORSE by a wide margin. Comparatively, I think most would agree that the Jets expectations fell off a cliff when Rodgers was replaced by Wilson after one series. The betting odds certainly did. Competent QB play changes everything. Believe it or not, I'm not rooting for the kid to fail. I'd be thrilled to be wrong and it certainly wouldn't be the first time. My opinions are based off what has happened, not what might happen. I'm always open to include new information and shift my opinion as appropriate. I don't have to fit in neat predefined boxes built by insecure huddlers that demand loyalty in the face of disaster.

What you see as cause I see as effect. Soon it will be undeniable to all.

I want to address this metric as well. Things like pressures, hits and sacks are cold hard facts. No nuisance at all. But WR separation charts....hmmm...tell me more. I have questions. Is the amount of separation measured for each pass at the moment the ball arrives to intended receiver? If it is how do we know the pass didn't affect the seperation? I.E. thowing someone open vs a receiver needing to slow down for an underthrown pass, thus allowing a defender to catch up? We certainly saw plenty of this and it's certainly a demarcation point for good vs bad QBs. Maybe the amount of separation is for every receiver on every play. If it is at what point is it measured? How does the statistic recorder know where the route is supposed to create separation? Does it account for other receivers that may have been wide open or just the one the pass went to? Please explain to me these from your chart.

Dude, you're clowning right? Otherwise you have no idea what a strawman actually is. Let me spell it out for you. Did Mahommes perform well under pressure? Yes or No (Support with direct evidence) Did Goff perform well under pressure? Yes or No (Support with direct evidence) Did Bryce perform well under pressure? Yes or No (Support with direct evidence) Answers....Yes, Yes, No. Once you start arguing outside of the evidence you are presenting a strawman argument. Now if you want to present a new argument about comparing experience or WR separation by all means make that argument. But this argument is simply that two QBs performed much better under similar pressure.

Our weapons looked great against Green Bay and everyone ran around saying how great Bryce played. They played pretty damn decent against Seattle as well. You could consider the possibility that we're not as bad as Bryce made them look as they looked a helluva lot better on his best day didn't they? Pointing out higher success against higher pressure rates is a direct argument against "No one could succeed under that amount of pressure". In no way is this a strawman argument. If it is then anyone, any time, anywhere could claim any comparison is a strawman. If you could draw a more direct argument then I'd love to hear it. Regarding pressure %, if Bryce were a little more successful and sustained a few more drives then there would have been more plays to dilute this metric. His very failure contributes to less plays and a higher percentage, he IS PART OF THE METRIC being higher. Beyond that the you're avoiding the obviousness of it all. Mahommes and Goff were both under tremendous pressure all season and turned in spectacular results. In my mind there's no room to say "No one could play with that pressure" when clearly there are guys that are, including Dalton when he had the chance on the same team. EDIT: In fact, it's you making the strawman by pivoting your argument to wide receiver separation vs. directly addressing performance under pressure.

Statistically Mahommes was pressured more (152 to 150) and hit more (65 to 50) than Bryce last year, yet only sacked 27 times to Bryce's 62. But Bryce copers on here acting like no one could be successful under pressure. Honorable Mention for Jared Goff as well.

Can he play QB?