Newtcase

I think everyone accepts this. It's not enlightening to point out we're four games in. The discussions that's being had is the optics week in/out of these players, discussions you'd completely expect on a NFL message board. The picture is one of continuous evolution, and phrases like "He had IT from day one" are born from guys like Stroud that you know, had IT since day one. Sure he has to have success a lot longer to form credibility but you can't knock the guy so far. The same isn't true for Bryce. He needs to find IT and continue to find it for the same credibility. The only thing we know through four games, it that for many reasons Stroud and Richardson are out of the gate much better than Bryce.

Well Miles, I'll tell ya what I'm tired of. I'm tired of any Panther that makes any type of ordinary play celebrating like they just clinched the division. Pelvis thrusting, shimmy shakes, chest bumps, knee wobbles, spider posing, firm 1st down thrusts, roid rage squat shouts...seen em all, and most them on like literally just the play you should make. These celebrations are as tone deaf as calling out fan boos. You and the rest of this organization should just be thankful that you're part of the NFL because you wouldn't make it on your own merits at this moment.

The NFL is some grown ass men, many of them fierce and fighting through tons of adversity to get their opportunity. Physical attributes will never be a bad thing, lack of them almost always is.

Well lets unpack this. It's hard to consider his accuracy as passable when he hasn't even attempted a pass beyond 20 yards. Most reasonable minds would expect a high completion from any QB with so many short passes. They're called high percentage plays for a reason. By what metric are you claiming we have the least separation? There has been some quality film break down that shows Bryce isn't seeing or attempting the pass when the play IS there, and trust me there are plays with open options. Dalton gave us a fine example of what's possible with our WR group in what was a certainly a harsher setting than the Vikes at BoA yesterday. I suppose the alternative is you think we magically only had receivers open beyond 20 yards that one time Dalton played. Blaming coaching here is pure conjecture. Bryce is the trigger man, most route trees have options at various depths. Clearly Bryce is declining to throw beyond shallow routes, eliminating a large part of NFL concepts. He's also audibling a fair amount at the line. In the end we can only be certain of three things. One, we don't know the call or the intention of the call. Two, Bryce hasn't attempted a pass beyond 20 yards. Three, the offense performed differently with Dalton. But don't let logic get in the way of your narrative.

There are way less than that.

Do you honestly believe you're adding anything constructive to the conversation?

Yeah we clearly have Peyton fugging Manning on our hands here and are just too blind to see it.

If comments were play results this is a 40 yard laser.

Bryce stans think we scored 13 points and that isn't too bad.

I mean, he's not wrong.

Right now we're just a comedy, the opportunity to become a complete laughing stock is in play.

Except you have no clue what game plan we took from it, you can only hypothesize based on a comment. You're not in the headset hearing which calls BY is deciding to kill, kill kill. Our plan may have been to challenge the field periodically and it just never happened. That's my hypothesis and it's worth as much as yours.

Ok. Not sure what point you're really making here. I don't think anyone would argue against the fact that short passes occur all the time, literally no one. What everyone is discussing here is that Bryce cannot attempt, much less complete a deep pass. So to have that discussion you hold up a Herbert straw man that literally has nothing to do with Bryce not passing deep? All the Bryce stans blamed our play calls and receivers for the first two weeks. Then when Dalton showed both the calls and receivers could work, they blamed Seattle's defense even though it was clearly a strong defensive showing in a very hostile environment. Finally, BY goes back in against another very poor defense at BoA and suddenly we can't complete a downfield pass....again....and we're throwing up Herbert pass chart comparisons. This is all just intellectually dishonest. Bryce can be bad and still have potential at the same time, but pretending this is all normal is not how I see it.

LOL What is the purpose here? To show Herbert can throw deep and short? The fact that you'd even drop Herbert's pass chart as if he and Bryce are almost on the level is a bit numbing.

I think you mean Hayden Hurst.

1. Not at all. 2. Bad is bad. Personally, I've just commented on what I've seen play out. Being short isn't an optic, it's a physical trait btw. I do think BY has serious issues seeing the field and it's the biggest limiting factor so far. 3. That ball, why catchable needed more air. Not going to bother playing what if with you, we have actual results to discuss. For the love of god, stop comping BY to anyone. Peyton Manning, Trevor Lawrence or whoever else is the flavor of the day for "was bad at some point" validation. Jimmy Clausen was also terrible and stayed terrible, means nothing. Bryce is his own man with his own trajectory, one which we're in the midst of at the moment. 2023 is a lost season already, we're going to see plenty more of Bryce. I hope that against obvious odds the kid can put it together, but legitimately fear the height concerns were well founded.

Andy Dalton is the best offensive player we have, followed closely by Thielen. Derrick Brown has broken away as the best defensive player.

The truth is staring at all of us.

If the draft were tomorrow where does Bryce Young go?

Relax guy, no one is pitching a fit. Just stating that we're paying a lot of money for players not on the roster, which is true no matter how you chop up the conversation. I appreciate the deeper explanation on DJ and CMC and how that is nuanced. With your explanation I think we can agree that amounts to us paying 34mil for Bryce Young and DJ Johnson in 2023. I think the merit of paying Burns survives under either circumstance. Just my opinion.

Yeah I did, the one where you said part of our dead money was restructures? That was a chuckle. Otherwise, my point stands we have 55mil in dead money. That is to say, 55mil of our 2023 cap space is committed to players who aren't on the team. There is nothing misleading about that.

How is it misleading? Which of these players are on the roster?

I mean we're paying 54mil in dead money this year. If we can pay players 54 mil to not play here I'm pretty sure we could pay Burns 28-30mil to do his thing. Edit: We have another 25mil on IR.

This should be a Panther's t-shirt at this point.

Not sure what our market has to do with how you build a team. I'd go with Green Bay or Philadelphia. I just want the franchise to stabilize. Green Bay - Only four losing seasons since 2000. Philadelphia - Only five losing seasons since 2000.