panthers55

Are the arrows a smoke screen or are we really taking him?

The draft isn't here yet and most trades get done at the draft. Let's see what happens as the draft gets close and we say definitely we are going with Young.

Just the opposite. They want Young and hope we love Stroud. I wonder if some of the young love is an attempt to get Houston to move up to take him for fear we are going to take him as well.

It was two weeks ago when supposed Texas insiders said if they don't draft Young they may skip QB in the first round. Of course it is hard to separate the wheat from the chaff these days. I have read other things including they would be fine with Young or Stroud.

I have read they only want Young and if we take him Houston may decide on someone other than a qb.

I think everyone can benefit from a change to a 3-4 if it is aggressive in style. Being in a 3-4 or a 4-3 as a base defense only 30% of the time means that most of the time they will be in something else. So the way they play and various coverages will determine who shines more than the base defense we employ. Fanzio's version is very aggressive with frequent blitzing through the A gaps which benefits ILB sack stats as much as OLBs. Coverages matter. Press man coverage might benefit Horn more than a cover 3 shell in terms of his effectiveness. And if Chinn is playing safety in press man on a TE he stays closer to the line than if they were in cover 4 for example.

I agree that Rivera didn't maximize Cam's ability but it wasn't just running him into the ground it was not having the coaching staff to develop him into a complete player with great fundamentals and consistency. By the time that Turner came in the die had been cast. Ron treated Cam like a friend not a player he needed to challenge. He wasn't tough enough to get the best out of Cam and transition him from a running quarterback to a passing one. We all knew that the only chance for a long career for Cam was to win with his arm and not his legs. Cam liked to run and was great at it. It was natural and didn't have to be learned. Both Chud and Shula changed the offense to mimic what Cam could do well in the run game looking for immediate results rather than his long term development. Cam had a high floor and could have had a huge ceiling but never got there. Now he is considered an aging running qb with questionable passing ability for various reasons. But like most number 1 picks he went to a team that had lots of deficits on the field and on the sidelines.

Everyone of these QBs is going to have a learning curve to get ready to play in the pros. Young looks the most ready but he had the better coaches and he appears to be quite smart. One question is whether his size and good but not great measurables give him the highest floor but limit his ceiling given there are some throws he isn't good at and his size and the need to protect him limit his value in the run game. The fact that CJ played so much better against the best team he faced could be because his game is still evolving. Most of his games this year they won because they were the better team and CJ didn't have to do that much to win. He had his best game on the biggest stage playing against a better team. Perhaps his ceiling is a little higher as he keeps figuring out more elements to his game like running and being elusive. I am sure you could argue that Young has a higher floor and ceiling but I cant shake the image of Tua (who is bigger than Young) getting ragdolled and potentially ending his career. After seeing all of our quarterbacks get hurt this year, people saying size and durability aren't correlated are ignoring how many qbs get hurt each year. And Young would be one of the smaller qbs ever to play the game. And I will say one thing about Richardson. If we pick him expect a lot of losses if he starts his rookie year or get excited about Dalton starting until Richardson is ready if we plan on actually being competitive next year.

No we don't have to . Contracts are backloaded and signing bonuses are prorated so the cap hit can be as little or as large as we want. Last year the number one pick had a 4 year deal 37 million. So if we gave him a 16 million dollar signing bonus and a 1 million salary for 2023 our cap hit would be 5 million. Or with 27 million in cap space we could make the hit bigger this year. But the cap isn't a limiter to what we can do. If we signed Burns to a huge 5 year deal for 125 million our cap hit could be as small as 8 mil this year if we give him a 40 million dollar signing bonus and a 2 million dollar salary for 2023. The guaranteed money is the biggest thing.

Yeah. Cam needs a run heavy offense which gives the QB the opportunity to run or throw. Plus he knows Sean and who wouldn't want to play for a playoff contender?

He at least picked some teams which involve the qb in the run game which is what he can still do. The problem in being a backup is that you have to be comfortable in the system the starter uses and come in on short notice. Teams won't be changing the offense a ton for a backup so he needs to be comfortable in what they run. Which is why Tua, and Rodger wouldn't be good fits I think..

Like many I lean toward Stroud with his bigger frame and quick accurate passes which fits the offense I think we will be running. That doesn't mean Young won't be a good choice as well. Just that you may have to adapt the gameplan to account for his size and height more than you do Stroud who is more prototypical in size.

Darnold is playing for the team he grew up rooting for as a child. What a dream to actually play for them with this loaded offense. Unless we play them at which time they all are dead to me, I will root for CMC and Darnold. They don't play in our division but are in our conference so I am fan unless we are vying for a playoff spot.

Even more reason to have a versatile guy like Chinn who is tough in coverage on the back end yet is great blitzing off the edge.

Maybe it is me but shouldn't we wait to actually see what defenses we will be running with what coverages before deciding if someone is a good fit or not. Many folks have suggested that defenses run their base defense 30-40% of the time. Most teams are in nickle coverage about 50% of the time in either a 3-3-5 or a 4-2-5 defense. Imagine all the variations and hybrids you can create. Chinn at his size can play safety or linebacker so how does he not fit? He can play strong safety as well. Teams love guys who can play multiple positions at a high level. When someone is as talented as Chinn you find ways to use him in your defense. He is a great luxury to have.

Richardson is surely in the discussion with his size and arm strength as is Levis. I agree that Stroud is not as big as you would like but he seems to have a bigger frame to build upon. I would feel much better if he were a little bit meatier. That again is what bothers me about Young. He is small, has a slight frame isn't likely to stack much more muscle which protects guys from injury. The fact that Stroud isn't that much bigger doesn't suggest we should go even smaller with Young as much as a guy like Stroud is likely the minimum we want to play with if we want to use the qb in the running game at all.

Unless it is specific to position and then further broken down by things like what type of system you run it is really useless. Cam got injured not because of his size but because he was used as a battering ram. Guys like Josh Allen are big and strong but routinely run through the line on called quarterback draws. Meanwhile a guy like Brees played in a west coast type style where he got the ball out quickly and he rarely took a hit. So what contributed to each of these quarterbacks getting injured? Their size and weight or the way they were used?? Does Allen stand a good chance of being injured because of how he plays? Maybe size limits what you can do because you are protecting your small qb at all costs. With Young are you limiting your offense since you don't want him running that much. The useful of all data is in the analysis which in this case was woefully inadequate. And surely not useful as a predictive tool.

You keep making.my point. If Tua weighing 220 by your numbers but small in height and frame gets ragdolled then Young is even more a risk at likely under 200 lbs. Taller bigger framed guys in the 220 range will be more resistant to getting tossed than a small guy like Young. You don't need group stats to figure that out.

Yeah he came out of college around 200 lbs and it seems it fluctuates between 205 to 220 over the years But he isn't a big guy compared to a 6'6" 275lb to 300 lb guy. And the bigger the difference the more likely one big hit can cause significant damage. That much is clear if you have watched football for years. All the stats you can muster don't change the hard realities of football.

Of course size and weight are issues but it seems to me that muscle mass is important as is the ability to avoid contact much like Sweetness used to do for the Bears. Payton was 5'10" and 200 lbs. I don't know how he would fare in today's NFL or if he would be as resistant to injury now as he was then but the sense then was that he was great at avoiding direct contact and crunching tackles. Young can do that in college. Will it translate to the NFL? Likely. Will it stop him from getting ragdolled like Tua? No. And would a defender pick up a 6'4" guy and 230 guy and toss him like that? Unlikely. All of these are factors. And to stay healthy you have to avoid injury every time. In a show I recently saw one assassin says to the other, " They got away again". The other assassin says yeah but they have to win every time and we only have to win once. So it isn't just injury but getting pummeled like Tua and start the clock to early retirement. The question to me is whether Young's other characteristics are so much better than Strouds for example to mitigate the obvious risk since Young is so small and it is a concern.

He should do better at Nebraska because of what he learned at Carolina. When you succeed sometimes you don't know exactly what you did to be successful but when you screw up and get fired you know exactly what you did wrong. And his rah rah coach speak plays well in college.

Shelby has Moss Lake which has million dollars homes and much less crowded than Lake Norman. Plus east of Gastonia there are a lot of upscale neighborhoods being built near Cramerton. With the Stadium where it is the commute likely is easier than fighting 77 or 485 twice a day.

He can either retire at year's end or if things go well in the new system he can play next year on a cheap deal. It was structured so if we cut him in 2024 the dead cap hit and his cap hit are within 400,000 of each other around 6 million and change. So it depends on how productive he is in a 3-4.

Samirmagic.

Remember that a lot of UDFAs are available as well which I include as part of the draft since it occurs immediately after.