panthers55

Grow up dude. He has done the same thing whether he had Gross, Wharton, and Smitty out there or the bunch of JAGs last . Year. He would be the first to agree with Rivera. Largely because unlike you he is interested in getting better instead of making excuses and blaming everyone else.

Another overreaction. Saying he is lazy with his mechanics doesn't say he s lazy in his behavior or attitude. It is a football term meaning he is often doesn't follow through with each fundamental movement and often shortcuts his mechanics. That has nothing to do with his being injured or surgery. Let's be real here, it isn't as of this issue just started this past year. It has been a consistent issue since he came here. Why so defensive all the time?

I love how these threads quickly morph into counter attacks against Rivera and everyone's whipping boy, Shula , without acknowledging the elephant in the room. Newton is inconsistent and often lazy in his mechanics often relying on his athleticism. How many guys can even throw the ball 30 yards on a rope off his back foot? Feel free to criticize Rivera and Shula but that doesn't change that he is right on with his comments.

Lots of guys are worthy of a 1st or second round pick. If they are who we want and they will be gone before we pick again, then we should pick them up as the BPA on our list. I want another big strong guy with speed to stretch the field who will also give match-up problems to the corners in our division. Many have one great corner but not 2 great ones. One more homerun at WR in the draft and we have our guys set for the next decade as long as we can afford them on their next contract.

Again, we can look at everyone who was signed by other teams and make a case that we should have signed them or they were pretty cheap and therefore obtainable. Gettleman is looking at what he perceives are our needs and trying to fit pieces that meet a need and still are reasonable given that he is one of the few that has the big picture. You are not crazy in thinking he could have gone in a different direction or for stating your opinion. Nor is he wrong for not following your opinions and doing things as you think they should be done either. He has a much better idea of what he thinks our needs are and more importantly what he sees is the potential for many of the people on our roster or in the draft. For example he may think that Brown is a younger version or Johnson who he can develop this year into a good receiver. Why buy Jonson for 3 million when you have a receiver with the same potential already on your roster signed for cheap. Or he may think that since Dickson got significantly better as the season unfolded, there is no need to sign a guy like Housler. Again I understand that there are multiple ways to solve a problem. I am just not sure that your solution is better than his given he has information you don't and by most accounts is a very good judge of talent. And honestly which GM gives an exact blueprint of what he is going to do do that other teams can upstage him by signing our players first. Ginn is a serious upgrade over Bersin and a potential 3 or even sometimes 2 receiver with Cam throwing him the ball. He may not be anything but a returner for most teams but for us he was an integral part of the offense.

I think if you are very disappointed in free agency this year it has been because your expectations have been unreasonable not that Gettleman hasnt done what he said he was going to do. The only thing you can be upset about is that Jennings and Ball left without signing. And who is to say they wont still sign? Free agency has really got multiple layers to it and we aren't through the first one yet. There are still multiple receivers out there like Crabtree for example who are getting little attention and are supposedly waiting for the right deal like Jennings. Then after the draft there will be another blood letting and again during training camp. FWIW. I dont think Jennings is worth a big contract. At 32 he isnt a vertical threat anymore but rather another possession receiver who really isnt going to do that much for us that getting a first or second rounder in the draft wont do. We have already shown that we can develop rookies into good performers as we did with Benjamin and to a lesser degree Brown when he is healthy. The biggest areas of need were left tackle and returner and we covered that. Sure there are other areas we need for depth but we dont have all the holes we had last year with the development of all our rookies during 2014. So if you are disappointed it isn't Gettleman's fault so much as your own for expecting us to just change our philosophy from building through the draft and finding decent affordable guys in free agency. A philosophy that we have been using even before Gettleman got here. Dave is just better with the draft than Hurney was after the first round.

Yep. 4 quarterbacks drafted in the first round and only he is still in the league. Maybe Watt and Jones have been bigger stars but in terms of who has would have had the most impact would any of them meant more to us than Cam. I would rather see Cam throwing to Benjamin than I would have Clausen throwing to Jones or Watt making the defense even better but having a moribund offense whose point output increased dramatically once Cam took over. Cam is the best thing that has happened to the Panthers since Jake and Steve were tearing up the league. Everyone knows that including Gettleman. Look how long Eli was ordinary before he took them to the Super Bowl. But I am preaching to the choir. We agree...

Yeah when you see a quarterback throw a ball to nobody most times there is a disconnect between the receiver and quarterback. Most times it is the receiver. As for throwing an out pattern, this is an area where he has improved greatly in the past 4 seasons. Could he throw a good timing pattern at the combine? Not much. Can he throw one now? Much better than before. But watch him throw them, you will notice that he still struggles to throw them early. He relies on whipping them often late very hard to try and stop the defender from recovering and doing a pick six. Again one of those areas where he still learning and needing to improve. Look at Wilson and you will see that his timing routes are what he throws best because he doesn't have the arm strength that Cam does.

I wonder if they know that you could sign another team's franchise tagged player only if it was the nonexclusive variety. Otherwise if we socked the exclusive franchise tag on him then it wouldn't matter what they do. Plus given that Luke was a top 10 pick, giving up two ones is really not giving up that much really. One extra first rounder for him really, given we gave up a one to get him to begin with.

Actually it isnt the same. Cam had one of the steepest learning curves of any quarterback coming into the league. Plus he was severely behind guys like Wilson, Ryan and Luck coming out of college in terms of understanding the pro concepts. He overachieved his rookie year and everyone thought he was fine without realizing he still didn't really understand many of the basics of the game. If you think about the fact he only had 1 year of D1 ball coming out of college and even then the offense was simplified, going into his fifth year in the pros is really equivalent to what a guy like Luck knew at the end of his rookie year given he was in a pro offense for 4 years in college and would be way ahead of Cam. So no you are wrong, the he is still learning is not the same thing as every quarterback. Cam still is learning the basics like consistent mechanics, throwing to spots and reading defenses. Things that many of the other quarterbacks have mastered. The fact that Cam has done so well and overachieved makes it appear that he is on the same footing at other guys in terms of football knowledge but he is still playing a catch up game. People thought he would need 2 years to simply be a starter. The fact that he has done so well is a testament to his hard work and the fact he picks things up quickly. But to translate that to doing it automatically and effortlessly takes time and repetition. Things he is still learning to do and is behind many other guys who had a pro offense for years in college.

actually you can. Your job is to see that the ball gets to where it belongs based on the play called. It is the receivers job to be where he is supposed to be. Is it hard to throw it without confidence in your receivers? Absolutely. A good reason for not having fruit basket turnover every year. But if you remember how Cam did in the combine drills you know this was one of the big knocks on him coming out of college. He struggled when asked to throw the ball on an out route to a spot because he had always thrown to the man or where he was at, not to a spot or where he should be. It was a fault of his offense in college You can get away with it in college but not in the NFL.one of the reasons I said he was not as prepared as other guys coming out. He has done it since he got here and is only now really able to anticipate.

If you listen to Polian quite a bit you know that he can be opinionated which sometimes clouds his judgement. But he does know football and is a fairly good judge of an organization and what it takes to build a good team. He was the GM for the only time that Buffalo has contended consistently for a super bowl. Then he went to Carolina where he was charged with building a contender right away. He took us to a win in the playoffs in only year 2. Then he went to Indy where he built them through the draft and did so very successfully. In each place he had different challenges and did them fairly well. He is far from a hack and anyone who thinks that is the case is just demonstrating how little they know about football and about Polian.

Pollen is spot on. The organization is being run right at present. No one is talking about the past simply the present. Secondly If people would stop being so defensive about Cam they would know that Polian is saying the same thing that Gettleman and Rivera has said. Cam is an incredible physical specimen but he still is learning for example how to throw to spots instead of waiting for the receiver to clear. He is still learning to read defenses and figure out what he needs to do. He came into the league with one year D1 experience starting and that was with a simplified system that didn't really teach him about NFL defenses. He has made tremendous progress but is still behind guys like Luck and Wilson who came into the league after 4 years of college and were more pro ready than Cam. He is definitely our franchise guy and should be paid a ton but let's not underestimate the distinct disadvantage he had coming into the league which he made up for initially with athletic ability but ultimately needs to be overcome with experience and time.

So some sleepers and late round guys. how about Eric Rowe from Utah Ladarius Gunter out of Miami. Perhaps Josh Shaw at USC if he interviews well and isn't a problem he appears to be. One of my favorites in the late rounds, Cam Thomas from Western Kentucky university.

Did you have Benwikere as a starter in the later rounds last year? The guys who usually stand are are the one being hyped by the various drafting services, those from big schools/ conferences, and the guys projected high in the draft. If you look at our starting corners you have a guy picked in the fifth round from San Jose State and another fifth rounder from Coastal Carolina. The guy who we pick could be a big name guy but just as likely will be a later round guy from a smaller school with good measurables, speed and size who will be drafted later because he is relatively unknown. I think that picking popular big name guys may not be as accurate as saying the likelihood is another 4 or 5 round pick again. Hence the overall draft philosophy.

At this point I would like to pick up a corner in the draft but not in the first 3 rounds unless a real difference maker who could start right away falls to us and other positions like OT and WR don't have the same level of talent. Truth is that Norman and Benwikere are our starters on the outside and Jones was very good in the slot in 2014. At this point I can see the need for depth and grooming someone for down the road but honestly corner is not the big problem it was at this point of the year going into the draft last year. I could see Gettleman finding another stud in the mid to later rounds like we did in Benwikere last year. If we can avoid the injury bug this year we might not have to start 8 rookies again this year.

Sean Golbert was one of the reasons we didn't go after big names for a while after that. He really burned us after paying him a ton and giving up 2 number 1 picks for him.

We are a long way from last year proven by how active we have been and the fact that for example Ginn is back in the fold. Gettleman knew we were going to take a dip last year and must be ecstatic is wasn't worse. He is a first time GM and is learning as he goes. He has learned from last year and likely won't make the same mistakes. He was full of himself in 2014 after a successful 2013 and mismanaged free agency. So far this year he appears to be doing a better job. Check back with me in 2 weeks and I bet things will have changed for the better..

The problem for me you are bitching about 7 weeks too early. If we havent done better than Bersin by the end of the draft then you have a point.I have full faith that we will sign another WR in free agency and pick one up in the draft I just saw that Patterson is being shopped and Bowe is being released. I wonder who else might get the ax over the next 2 or 3 weeks who would be cheap and as good as Shorts, Nicks, and Crabtree. I am fine with letting tings play out and see what happens. There will be plenty of time to bitch between the draft and the start of training camp.

Brown is still an unknown. He really didn't play enough for us to know how he will do long-term. I hope he is fine and continues to improve but I wouldnt bet the farm he will develop into a number 2 for us. Anyone who has been around long enough have seen folks like Brown (Ryne Robinson, Joe Adams, etc.) to not get too overly excited. Lets be real here, you keep bashing Bersin as if he is a top receiver on the team and that he will even make the roster this year. Unless he seriously improves he will likely be a camp casualty. And Cotchery was really an add on when our initial free agency plan blew up last year. The guy he replaced is back with us in Ginn. The best think Cotchery gives us is veteran leadership and a good third down option when we send out 3 or 4 receivers and they double Olsen and KB. The thing for me is not going after pricey mediocre talent instead of drafting someone like we did with Benjamin. I would like to see another free agent WR signed next week and then draft another one in the first 3 rounds. But Crabtree and Shorts would not be my top choices. One due to injury and the other price. Then again what do I know, I am just a fan.....

If he tore his achilles last year I wonder what he runs the 40 in now. I'm betting it isnt close to 4.3

Glad you are not the GM. Shorts will be overpaid by the Jets or someone else and really isnt that good. He had 53 catches on 110 targets in 2014. His drop rate was 11.67 in 2014. Plus he had soft tissue issues and injuries and ran a 4.5 40 which would be fine of he were like Benjamin but at 6ft tall and 200 lbs he really is not worth that much. I would take Ginn over him in a heartbeat. He is a slow Ginn who can't return punts or kickoffs. When the Jaguars dont even want you, there are issues. Crabtree had achilles surgery after 2013 and has never returned to form. How many wide receivers have achilles surgery and gain back all of their speed and acceleration? The only one out of those I would consider is NIcks because he will be relatively cheap and will be worth taking a flier given he wont be asking a lot of guaranteed money. Even then he isn't someone who you count on for a number 2 receiver with his injury history.

Actually it is his first rodeo as a GM. Sure he was in the player evaluation business as part of the Giants but never a GM so there is a learning curve just like Rivera's time as a coordinator helped but didn't totally prepare him for head coach. The beauty of it is that his basic philosophy and instincts are already good and will only improve as he Gaines experience.

Crabtree has never Ben the same after the Achilles injury. He ran a 4.5 before the injury and likely runs a 4.8 or worse now. Most times speed never returns. For the money I would take Nicks who while injured at least doesn't have a career limited injury.

Who thinks we haven't already talked to Long's agent to discuss bringing him in? If we dont pull the trigger you can assume we have questions or feel he is not a good fit or not worth what they are asking. Players who are getting contracts this week are getting what they want and likely getting the better end of the deal. As time goes by, the agents start feeling the heat and are more likely to negotiate. Those are the guys we want and will pursue. BTW, anyone have Remmers on their radar last year? Who thought that would work out like it did, Lets see what Gettleman can do with what is out there before we decide we have to have the big names and high priced guys. Long is surely very risky and might be a one year rental or less if he gets hurt again. We need someone who can anchor the left side for some time. And that likely will be a draft pick.