cranky

I get the feeling they are going from having the worst rush defense in history last season to having the worst pass defense this year

He was benched part of his second season and I didn't think it was fair to use abbreviated numbers to compare with a whole season with the other. Given how badly you and other have claimed him to be this year, I would have thought you would have preferred his numbers from this year to be included.

First off the point is his turnover percentage is no worse than any in that list so saying he has too many turnovers is simply not accurate - at least when compared to others. Secondly, you'll have to show me something to prove the aggresive and accounting part. It's just your opinion at this point to me.

"turnovers are his biggest issue. I think his turnovers are mostly happenning due to his size and not being able to see the field clearly in a condensed pocket" They're not as bad as everyone makes them out to be. If you look at just his last 17 games, he has 11 ints and 5 fumbles. That's on 518 drop backs so about 3.08% of his dropbacks resulted in a turnover. Newton in his second year had 15 turnovers on 485 attempts so he was also right at 3.09% as well. Baker Mayfield 4.3% Sam Darnold 3.6% Drew Brees 3.06% Andy Dalton 3.78% So I don't think it's fair to say he has a problem with turnovers, at least not when comparing him to other starting QBs in their second year

Point is the OP never said anything about Bryce being good if he had some talent around him. That was all you.

Couldn't agree more!

You guys are soooo sensitive. Pretty sure the OP wasn't posting a "Bryce-is-really-good-if-he-had-a-team thread".

So are you saying Rhule never set Baker up for success. That's part of the reason he didn't work out here?

I can agree that not everyone who dilslikes him are not haters. But there are several around here who regardless of the topic, will somehow get a dig in on Young. Doesn't matter what the original topic is, they will somehow get around to blaming Bryce for it. We just had a great win and are at .500 for the first time in years and people are still making post disparaging Young. A few people around here just can't stand to see him succeed. They are welcome to their opinion - I just get tired of seeing them rag on him in every post.

Hate to tell you but the haters are gonna hate around here. No amount of logic or facts will change that. They never wanted him and will gladly watch the Panthers go down in flames to prove they are right.

It's hard to both focus on stopping the run and be aggresive with the pas rush. As long as they continue to stop the run like they did against Dallas and the Dolphins, I won't worry too much about it. Especially given the promise the two rookies have shown.

I am not a conspiracy guy and usually take these arguements with a grain of salt but I just read this study from the university of Texas El Paso where they looked at the Chiefs playoff games and they found a clear bias towards the Chiefs in those games. I know the Cowboys aren't the Chiefs but they are America's team and bring in ratings (ad dollars) so I can see the bias. UTEP study showing officiating favoring the Chiefs

If you look at every QBs chart on the NextGen stats page, you will see Young pretty much threw more passes past the 10 yard line than any of the other QB's this week and he completed a higher percentage of them this week as well. The same goes for last week. He doesn't have the most both weeks but he is in the top 5 both weeks. I don't know why everyone keeps griping about this subject. The charts show it simply isn't true.

Saying "overwhelming teams with the run and occasionally mixing in the pass when they dont expect it can help a qbs efficiency a lot." doesn't apply to every QB in the NFL is simply foolish.

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The same could be said of any QB in the NFL.

I don't have a problem with anything they said ( at least from the summations )

You're right. My bad.

I'm surprised the "Bryce sucks" gestapo hasn't chimed in that its his fault yet.

CHARLOTTE, N.C. (CAROLINA SPORTS LIVE) — Panthers wide receiver Jalen Coker is officially off injured reserve and was a full participant in practice Wednesday. The second-year wideout has yet to play this year after a quadriceps strain in late August. “He looks fast, he looks like Jalen,” head coach Dave Canales said.

The guy implied he was trash against the Eagles. I simply pointed out he was good enough to have won the game. Same as the other games. he payed well enough in each of those games to have beaten them all. This is about his performance in those game. I simply showed he had the Panthers in position to win the game. The sad part is even though they were in position to win every one of those games because of Bryce, they lost them all to no fault of his own, still everyone here will argue all day long those losses are all on him.

The level where he drove down for the winning TD against Philly only to have Legette drop it, the level where he drove down for the winning score against the Chiefs only to have the defense give up a score in the final seconds to lose the game, the level where he took the Bucs to OT and, again, had the Panthers in a winning position only to have Hubbard fumble the ball in OT. Yes, that is the level I am looking for.

sunk cost fallacy is only true IF it is CLEAR that changing course is more beneficial. If Bryce gets back to playing like he did after getting benched last year, and sooner rather than later, than I am not so sure it is. Not a popular notation around here I know.

Again, I'm not as familiar with this as most you seem to be but, at this point, I would be open to taking a wait and see approach. I am sure that is not gonna go over well around here but if he trends up from here on out and ends on a high note, it would be worth looking into. Ideally, at this point, I would much rather not pick it up but then negotiate a new contract - something below the 25M. The way I see it, he's signed for the 4th year already and that money is gauranteed so it doesn't do any good to cut him. I also hate thinking about all the wasted capital that was invested in him (draft picks). From what I understand, 25M would be stilght below an average QB contract? And it would only be for the one year?

Well that is a tough. Needless to say I am a supporter but I am not unrealistic about his output so far. I would say that if he finishes the season on an upward trend, I would be open to looking into it. The thing is, I do not really understand how rookie contracts work. If you sign him to an extension, is it a large $$$ investment for two years or is it negotiable.