raleigh-panther

Losing franchises do losing things thomas, of all players, for 3 years and $16.5 million is fuging mind boggling

I’ve said this all along

For the same reason there were more CBs on this team then capable OTs Other than Darnold potentially being something he has never been, your reasoning is sound and that’s the reason it won’t happen I think Rhuke should be told, you wanted him, live with him as you were stupid enough to not give yourself a prenuptial

And worse yet, he thinks he is the smartest guy in every room

Passing in QBs abs LTs shlyld have gotten Rhule fired his errors are egregious from the article this pretty much says it quote There is no home-run option for the Panthers at No. 6. Willis likely isn’t ready. Pickett doesn’t have franchise-changing upside and trading back means less talented players come back in return. Drafting an offensive tackle feels safe. Picking a quarterback seems necessary.Either way, Fitterer and coach Matt Rhule have a tenure-defining decision to make soon. “It’s time to kind of put your cards on the table or chips into the middle and go with one of these rookie quarterbacks,” Melo said. Something they probably should have done already

Panthers can pick a quarterback, tackle or trade. Evaluating each of their draft options BY ELLIS L. WILLIAMS AND JONATHAN M. ALEXANDER [email protected] [email protected] 6 hours ago There will be a new starting quarterback in Carolina next season. Whether general manager Scott Fitterer acquires a new signal-caller via free agency, trade or the draft remains unknown but something will change. Fitterer has a plethora of veteran options — both realistic and not —worth exploring. The Panthers also have an opportunity to draft a first-round quarterback. Similar to last year, Carolina picks inside the top 10 (No. 6) and should have their choice of a top prospect. But unlike the 2021 draft, the 2022 quarterback class is underwhelming. It’s interesting because all we heard about last year’s quarterback class was that it was one of the deepest quarterback classes in recent memory. You had five first-round picks and all of them were off the board by the 15th pick,” Justin Melo of the Draft Network told The Observer. “You had the Panthers opting not to take one and now here we are the following year, where the draft is perceived to be a lot weaker at the quarterback position. I think it leads to a very bleak conversation for the Panthers and their current regime.” Pittsburgh’s Kenny Pickett and Liberty quarterback Malik Willis are considered the top two quarterback prospects in this draft. If both were a part of last year’s class they’d ranked QB 6 and 7, respectively, according to multiple sources close to the evaluation process. If selecting a quarterback at pick No. 6 is a stretch then Carolina could land one of the top three offensive tackle prospects, solidifying a key position for years. Perhaps there is a scenario where the Panthers could get everything they wanted. Trading down would help the Panthers recoup valuable mid-round selections they lost by trading for Sam Darnold (Round 2, No. 38 and Round 4, No. 110) and C.J Henderson (Round 3, No. 70). The Observer’s Ellis L. Williams and Jonathan M. Alexander mock out the first five picks of the 2022 draft and then explore three possible scenarios for the Panthers. ▪ 1. JACKSONVILLE JAGUARS: Evan Neal, OT, Alabama ▪ 2. DETROIT LIONS: Aidan Hutchinson, DE, Michigan ▪ 3. HOUSTON TEXANS: Kyle Hamilton, S, Notre Dame ▪ 4. NEW YORK JETS: Ikem Ekwonu, OT, NC State ▪ 5. NY GIANTS: Kayvon Thibodeaux, DE, Oregon ▪ 6. CAROLINA PANTHERS: ? Option 1: Panthers select Charles Cross, OT, Mississippi State Alexander: As tempted as I’d be to take a quarterback, I’m not exactly sold on any of them. One scout recently told me that a lot of teams came away impressed with Malik Willis at the Senior Bowl. He made a lot of good throws, and there’s no doubt he can run it. But the fact that there’s no consensus among experts of who the top quarterback is in this class concerns me. Everyone I’ve spoken with says taking a quarterback at six would be a reach. The safest route is sometimes the best route. And in this year’s draft, the safest route is offensive line. That also happens to be the Panthers’ biggest concern, where they allowed 52 sacks in 2021, the fifth-worst in the NFL. I know the Bengals did it without an offensive line, but their O-Line play was also the reason they didn’t win the Super Bowl. The Panthers have to get that fixed. They haven’t had a consistent left tackle since Jordan Gross retired in 2013. They should be able to get a Day 1 starter with the No. 6 pick. I still think the Panthers should have drafted left tackle Rashawn Slater or quarterback Justin Fields last year. But what’s done is done. If I could choose anyone in this draft, it’d be N.C. State left tackle Ikem Ekwonu or Alabama left tackle Evan Neal. But both are likely to be gone by six. In that case, my draft pick would be Mississippi State left tackle Charles Cross. By drafting a left tackle here, the Panthers would get a player they can plug in immediately. They could also move Brady Christensen to left or right guard. Taylor Moton would remain at right tackle. And a source said Pat Eflein is likely to start at center again next season with Matt Paradis’ inevitable departure, barring a free agent signing or injury. That leaves one vacant spot at guard, but their line would certainly improve from 2021. His flexibility in being able to play multiple positions was why the Panthers signed him last offseason. Option 2: Panthers select Kenny Pickett, QB, Pittsburgh Williams: I understand the point my colleague laid out above. The Panthers must improve their offensive line. However, there are other ways of doing so without selecting a tackle at six. Plus, Carolina finding a franchise quarterback outside of the draft isn’t looking promising. Considering Marcus Mariota, Mitchell Trubisky and Carson Wentz are all relatively known commodities, pairing one of them with Sam Darnold is uninspiring. Instead, selecting Pickett would organically instill hope back into Carolina. Unlike Willis, Pickett is ready to start Week 1 and could be poised for a Mac Jones-like rookie campaign. “What’s so interesting about these options for Carolina at six in taking a quarterback is that they couldn’t be any more different,” Melo said of Pickett and Willis. “For Kenny, he wins with his mind. He’s such a good reader of the game, such a smart thrower of the football. He knows his stride and he knows he’s one of those guys that takes what the defense gives. His arm strength isn’t going to blow you away like it does with Malik. Although I do think it’s good enough. The mechanics are cleaner too.” Willis is an outstanding prospect but I do not think Carolina is a natural fit for him. Playing behind a shaky offensive line and an undefined offensive scheme could lead to Willis developing poor habits while relying on his athleticism too often. Pickett has already taken his developmental leap. He started four years at Pittsburgh. After throwing no more than 13 touchdowns in a season prior to last fall, he exploded for 42 passing touchdowns as a senior. There were no coaching or system changes at Pitt. Pickett did not all of a sudden start throwing to a freakish pass-catching talent. Instead, he mastered his offense while becoming the most pro-ready quarterback in the draft. Option 3: Trading back Alexander: If Ekwonu, Cross and Neal are not there, then I’m trading back with the Steelers. The Steelers are looking for a quarterback to replace Ben Roethlisberger, and if they are desperate enough, perhaps the Panthers could get their second-round pick in a deal. Carolina then drafts a QB at 20, if available. I like Sam Howell, and primarily because I’ve covered him and seen him play and know he’s a clutch player with an amazing arm. With the right pieces around him, he can be good. I don’t think 20 is too high, especially if you can get other pieces in a trade. The only way I’d do this is if the Panthers could get the Steelers’ second-round pick. And if they do, they should draft the best available guard or tackle in that round. I think Brady Christensen can be a solid long-term option at left tackle for the Panthers if they draft a guard. Williams: As comforting as trading back sounds, I do not think it is a realistic option for the Panthers. The scenario my colleague laid out would make the Panthers’ No. 6 selection even less appealing to trade up for. Without a premier left tackle available, the only reason to move up would be for a quarterback. Denver selects at No. 9 and Washington at No. 11. Pittsburgh would have to worry if one of those two teams wanted Pickett or Willis. Even if that happens, Pittsburgh could trade with the Giants (No. 7) or Atlanta (No. 8), saving them capital by moving up fewer spots. In theory, trading back would help recoup Day 2 or 3 selections. Though this is considered a deep draft class, that doesn’t mean a mid-round pick will be ready to start Week 1. You’re gonna need some proven veteran guys that can step in immediately. And truthfully, you’re not getting a lot of (quality starters) on Day 2 and 3 anymore,” Melo said. “I invite you to look at last year’s class and look at every offensive lineman selected on Day 2 and Day 3. Some high upside guys, who I think will still be good players in this league, but they didn’t contribute much as a rookie.” Panthers guard Deonte Brown is a shining example of Melo’s point. Carolina selected Brown in the sixth round last year. He appeared in two games. The Panthers believe he can contribute (and possibly start) this season. But he couldn’t start on one of the worst offensive lines last season as a rookie. What we learned There is no home-run option for the Panthers at No. 6. Willis likely isn’t ready. Pickett doesn’t have franchise-changing upside and trading back means less talented players come back in return. Drafting an offensive tackle feels safe. Picking a quarterback seems necessary. Either way, Fitterer and coach Matt Rhule have a tenure-defining decision to make soon. “It’s time to kind of put your cards on the table or chips into the middle and go with one of these rookie quarterbacks,” Melo said. Something they probably should have done a year ago.”

The logic of the predictions are mind boggling The QB that couldn’t win 1. with a great coaching staff 2. and a loaded team will succeed in Carolina’s 3 year and growing dumpster fire I lay this fully at Tepper’s feet. No one else

I hear Vinnie T can still toss it around too

Long read Well done Covers it all if you are part of the TL/DR group, you might pass it by Re-evaluating the Carolina Panthers’ realistic quarterback options in the open market BY ELLIS L. WILLIAMS [email protected] 7 hours ago It shouldn’t have come as a surprise last week when NFL Network’s Peter Schrager said on Good Morning Football that he believes the Panthers are going to be a “major player” for a quarterback this offseason. As Kate McKinnon’s SNL character Dr. Wenowdis would say, “We know dis already.” The Panthers were aggressive last offseason for a quarterback and will be again. The question surrounding Carolina’s future at quarterback isn’t a matter of “if” but instead more of a “who” and “when” conundrum. Last month, I broke the veteran quarterback market down into tiers. Aaron Rodgers, Russell Wilson and Deshaun Watson, headlined a list of star quarterbacks who were potentially on the move. But the landscape of the league has already changed since then. Cardinals quarterback Kyler Murray is reportedly frustrated with his situation in Arizona. The Colts seem ready to move on from Carson Wentz and the Browns have yet to commit long term to Baker Mayfield. If that many quarterbacks are possibly switching squads then that means just as many are (like the Panthers) also looking for new quarterbacks. The Saints, Bucs, Lions, Commanders (Washington), Broncos, Steelers, Colts and Texans are all searching for QB 1. Each offseason, there is usually a surprise team or two that enter the quarterback market as. Meaning, about one-third of the league desires a quarterback upgrade. Let’s examine the veteran market and explore what quarterbacks could be in the Panthers’ crosshairs. “Depending on the trade market, I think it’s a better option to trade for one of these guys,” an NFL executive who spoke to The Observer said. “Rather than spending a pick on one of these (rookie quarterbacks) and hoping for the best.” Possible upgrades Derek Carr The Raiders have completely remade their offensive coaching staff since the season ended. They hired longtime Patriots offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels as their head coach and he brought several New England staffers with him. McDaniels publicly endorsed Derek Carr during his introductory press conference but that guarantees nothing about his future. “I would not say he’s definitely going to stay (in Las Vegas),” an NFL executive told The Observer. “I think it’s closer to 50-50.” If Carr were made available then the Panthers would be interested in acquiring him. It’s believed Carolina has more weapons to equip Carr with than he has in Las Vegas, which in theory should improve his already top-15 quarterback play. If the Raiders decide it’s time to move on, it’s believed he could be acquired for less than a first-round pick. Precedent suggests he would command more than what the Colts paid for Carson Wentz (a conditional first-round pick and a third-rounder). Regardless of where Carr plays next season, he’ll expect a lucrative contract extension as well. Russell Wilson “I do think the Panthers can be a surprisingly competitive team next year with a couple of smart decisions this offseason. But is Russell Wilson the right fit?,” Bryan Perez of the Draft Network said. “Are you gonna have to mortgage the next, three to four NFL draft cycles for a quarterback, and are the Panthers a Russell Wilson away from bringing a Lombardi Trophy to Carolina?” The answer to that last question is no. Carolina is not a Pro Bowl quarterback away from winning a Super Bowl. The fantasy of Matt Stafford playing in Carolina sounds great but the Panthers are not the Rams. They do not roster an Aaron Donald or a Copper Kupp. The Rams drafted their core and then dropped Stafford into a ready-made system. Conversely, we’re two seasons into Matt Rhule’s tenure and the Panthers still do not have a clear offensive identity. Which why is the Panthers are in such a quarterback quagmire. As I’ve wrote before, Wilson to Carolina could make sense considering his ties to general manager Scott Fitterer. Fitterer was Seattle’s college scouting director in 2012 when the Seahawks drafted Wilson in the third round. But would Wilson have any real interest in coming to Carolina? Doubtful. Deshaun Watson I feel obligated to write about Deshaun Watson despite nothing changing regarding his legal situation. He is still facing 22 civil lawsuits alleging sexual assault and misconduct. He continues to deny any wrongdoing through his attorney. If Watson’s legal troubles are resolved, then Carolina will be a major player for him. He’ll cost multiple first-round picks — which would likely include the Panthers’ No. 6 selection in the upcoming draft — plus future picks. Considering the Panthers are working with less firepower than teams like the Eagles or Dolphins, Carolina would have to be comfortable parting with a few first-rounders, and probably a young asset from its defense. ESPN’s Jeremy Fowler reported Watson has Tampa Bay and Minnesota “on his radar.” Watson’s camp later denied that report. From a legal standpoint, Watson’s case is facing another delay. It sounds like this situation is far from resolution. With so much unknown, landing Watson remains difficult. Jimmy Garoppolo There are some within the Panthers organization who do not view Jimmy Garoppolo as an upgrade over Sam Darnold. I understand that notion and tend to agree. However, when I asked others scouts and executives around the league, I’ve received pushback on that idea. We are eight years into Garoppolo’s pro career and there is still no consensus on his value or potential. For that exact reason, I’d stay away from him. The Panthers need a quarterback who solves their problems rather than one their offense must support. Some around the league wonder if he’s capable of producing outside Kyle Shanahan’s system. We’ll soon find out but it won’t be in Carolina. Unlikely upgrades Aaron Rodgers On the morning of the Super Bowl, ESPN’s Adam Schefter reported that Green Bay is prepared to go “all in” for Aaron Rodgers in 2022. Meaning, general manager Brian Gutekunst is comfortable exercising the entire cap and even spread as much money as possible out several years. Similar to how the Saints worked their cap gymnastics the final few Drew Brees seasons. Everyone I talked to said they think Rodgers returns to the Packers. Similar to the Russell Wilson situation, Rodgers does not have much reason to entertain Carolina as a destination. “Aaron Rodgers would probably want to go further west,” Doug Kyed of Pro Football Focus said. “Not further east.” Kyler Murray The Rams dismantled Arizona 34-11 in the wild card round and Kyler Murray looked completely overmatched. He threw for 137 yards and turned it over twice. Regardless, a trade market for Murray would be robust if he became available. “Kyler Murray got exposed in a playoff game,” Perez said. “And all that has happened since is negative press out of Arizona.” One NFL scout told The Observer that if the Cardinals asked for pick No. 6, a 2023 first-round pick and a player in exchange for Murray, then the Panthers would have to accept it. Of course, that is all theoretical but highlights how expensive trading for a franchise quarterback will be. I asked several experts who they think is more likely to be on a different team next season, Murray or Baker Mayfield. Each said Mayfield. Still, expect Murray trade rumors to start swirling throughout Indianapolis next week when the NFL converges at Lucas Oil Stadium for the combine. Let’s keep an eye on this. Baker Mayfield All summer the Browns flirted with Super Bowl expectations. The hype got real and for good reason. But Cleveland had a turbulent year after Mayfield sprained his left shoulder in Week 2 while trying to make a tackle against the Texans after throwing an interception. Mayfield battled through injury all season but the Browns’ passing game was abysmal. In January, Cleveland.com reporter Mary Kay Cabot reported the Browns and Mayfield were at a critical junction in their relationship. Later, the team said Mayfield is their quarterback going into 2022 but things remain fluid. Moving off Mayfield won’t be easy for the Browns. Like Darnold, he’ll play the 2022 season under his fifth-year option (about $19 million). The trade market for Mayfield is far from fruitful. It seems most likely he’ll remain in Cleveland while the Browns explore other options. Kirk Cousins If the Vikings trade Kirk Cousins, they’ll probably have to pay a portion of his 2022 salary. He has a cap hit of $45 million. The more Minnesota pays, the more attractive he’d become to potential suitors. But the Vikings have no clear succession plan for Cousins. Moving on from him this season could compound their situation rather than help it. Minnesota named former Rams offensive coordinator Kevin O’Connell its new head coach and it’s been reported that he plans on sticking with Cousins. O’Connell helped improve Stafford’s passing numbers without using play-action this past season and the Vikings want to become less reliant on play-action. I think Cousins stays in Minnesota for at least one more season. Sure, he’s a clear upgrade over Darnold. But even with a loaded roster in Minnesota, Cousins never pushed the Vikings over the top. Cousins needs adequate protection to produce and Carolina cannot provide that yet. Possible wildcards Marcus Mariota If the Panthers court Marcus Mariota in March, then it would signal their long-term solution still is not on their roster. But Mariota seems poised for a starting opportunity after backing Carr up for several seasons. Unlike the quarterbacks on this list above him, he’d be relatively inexpensive. “You could do a lot worse than Marcus Mariota at quarterback,” Perez said. “He’s a really good bridge quarterback, especially if the Panthers are leaning toward a Malik Willis type.” His mobility could help cover up the Panther’s offensive line if their rebuild there does not go according to plan. But if you are talking Mariota, Jamies Winston or Wentz then your quarterback situation is far from figured out. And we are about to talk about all of them. Jamies Winston Jameis Winston is coming off an ACL injury and could very well end up back in New Orleans. An NFL executive told The Observer they do not see much of a difference between Winston and Darnold. When asked why I got a one-word response — turnovers. Winston infamously threw 30 interceptions and 30 touchdowns his final season in Tampa Bay while also leading the NFL in passing yards. Winston is more talented (and accomplished) than Darnold but it’s difficult defending most of the turnovers both Darnold and Winston have committed in their short careers. Imagine a training-camp quarterback competition headlined by Winston vs. Darnold. Spartanburg, South Carolina, would transform into “Interception City” for a month. Carson Wentz After the Colts traded for Carson Wentz last offseason, it’s unlike he’ll command much on the trade market following an up-and-down season that ended in disappointment. Indianapolis needed to win one of their two final games to make the playoffs but lost both. Wentz played poorly and owner Jim Irsay (unlike Panthers owner David Tepper) made a public statement after the season stressing his disappointment in the team’s finish. “Carson Wentz is a better option than Sam Darnold. You could also probably get him cheap.” Kyed said. “The most likely scenario there probably is that he’d be cut. If he gets cut and you can sign him for $10 or $15 million dollars a year. It’s not exactly the sexiest quarterback group of Carson Wentz and Darnold. But I do genuinely think that he would be an upgrade in that situation.” I’ve always believed in Wentz as a talent. While at the Senior Bowl a scout reminded me how dominant Wentz was in Mobile, Alabama, when he played in that game in 2016. But ever since Nick Foles and the Eagles won Super Bowl 52, Wentz has not been the same. Whether it’s injuries or mental, Wentz cannot get out of his own way. If he arrived in Carolina, I’d talk myself into it working. http://Re-evaluating the Carolina Panthers’ realistic quarterback options in the open market https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/nfl/carolina-panthers/article258526273.html

The sad part is, they will suck for awhile even after 2022 so 3 losing seasons under Tepper with a 4th likely and still, he may not get rid of Rhule in 2023 If Tepper brings in someone new in 2023, whoever he brings in will then take 2 to three years if lucky to recover, so 2026 been a fan from the start. Psl holder since 2001. I’ve seen a lot Paid for some horrible teams Saw a few great teams I can’t stomach this as it’s all self inflicted lack of sound principles of business in the Nfl it isn’t an understanding that the NFL rules have changed to favor the offense, no matter how many CBs he drafts and CB free agents he stocks, or how much pablum he spouts about running the ball a B d stretching the truth about his defense his most important job in the 3 years he has been here 1) find a LT. 2) find a Qb he failed Rhule’s self love writes checks his ability can’t fund

What is your thoughts on Matt C ?

They already have sadly we all know it supporting a team that has some bad luck with injuries or draft picks is one thing supporting a franchise that is willfully ignorant of all the best practiced in the Nfl is something else again If they were smart they would bring in Marriota for a year on the cheap and build those lines, get rid of Darnold and get the qb next year but hey …

There aren’t any words god almighty

Yep. Salary cap would be better due to rookie contract and still have those draft choices there are days when I feel like the stupidity, or is it arrogance, shown by Rhule is simply mind boggling at the pro level

Could be I think he is too in love with his soccer team to care …the new shiny toy vs the one from ‘the land of misfit toys’

I have to believe there were some contractual terms that seemed untenable to Tepper to pull the trigger in getting rid of Rhule after two years it is impossible to believe that Tepper would tolerate this much blatant incompetence the mere fact that Rhule was enamored of Darnold should have been red flag number 1 I also have to think that he has to be careful as who would want to come here to succeed Rhule as the saying goes ‘past is prologue’ … unfortunately

Yep If you are Watson, Wilson, why wouldn’t you want to go the Bucs, they are loaded. Rodgers will wind up staying in GB of course a lot of this positive conjecture by the media is to give the base hope to renew seats and sell merchandise I have zero faith in Tepper as an owner

Had to correct my post here. Couldn’t edit original rule changes in favor of the offense no longer support ‘three yards and a cloud of dust’ mentality and mediocre game managers …it just doesn’t the panthers giving Macffrey that much money, early mind you, when they didn’t have to was just as smart as picking up Darnold option honestly, I don’t know if they try to be stupid or they just are

The times have changed a great deal since the Dilfer and Flacco days and favor the offense and throwing the part there have a hc that wants to run the ball tge team with a game manager and a great rB sat hime this year what more needs to be said

…or the QB who wears gloves

I hate to say it but I agree I look at the talent on other coaching staffs and players, and the truth is, and this will piss people off, there might be 3 players that would garner a first rd pick in trade, 3 others a 2 rd. The rest are just guys i do not see that bright mind at gm or coach to drive otherwise

I hate Matt Rhule more with each passing day

If they are going to pick a qb, make it one whose ceiling is a lot damned bigger than Kenny Matt has a higher ceiling so dies Willis otherwise get bpa i know this is a totally shallow thing but I hate picket’s face as much as Rhule’s

As I sit here, I know it will be many years before the Panthers will be here again

I’m in SoCal in a casino. Weak ass rams fans. Go Bengals