MHS831

This draft is deep at QB. I would not be overly surprised to see them draft a developmental QB to develop late, someone like Pratt, Travis, or Rattler--I expect a day 2 CB as well, even though nobody seems to be talking about it right now--the need/talent level at CB after day 1 seems laughably loaded. What do you all think of Shipley, the RB from Clemson? Good route runner and hands--CMC lite?

Bryce knows the deal. With a better OL, better WRs, and better coach, we will see improvement. Enough? I dunno. I hope he is watching film, lifting, and getting pissed off.

My son went to UNC, but I do not care where a player went to college when I look at pro potential. I think Tez is a bit of a mystery, a sleeper, who could be very effective in the NFL. We sure do have a lot of Charlotte area boys (High School) in the draft. Malik Washington had 10 games over 100 yards receiving in 2023. Not too shabby.

Very possible, but then I remember this is pre-Sr Bowl January, and so much will change between now and late April---still, it could happen, the draft is so loaded at WR, something will fall to us. This is a great draft to get 2 WRs. I do not think free agency will be the way to go, based on what I think will be there. Imagine Thielen, Mingo, Leggette, Corley, Smith-Marssette, and UFA Laviska Shenault. Shenault did not play in 2023 and was not a force in 2022. However, in Jax in 2020 and 2021 he averaged over 600 yards per season. His style fits what they say they are going to do with Bryce--so I think he could be the free agent we sign on the the cheap. TMJ needs to leave, but they could decide to see how he does with Canales. Yes, with the OL getting healthy, a young group of WRs, I also think we need a CB. I'd be very happy with the 2 WRs, a CB and then draft BPA the rest of the way.

Gonna sound like a hypocrite here, but that has never stopped me before. I see Corley with a third-round grade, so he seems a bit high here. I think at least 6 WRs go in round 1-- (here it comes) HOWEVER, I see him as an excellent fit here, considering they are building an offense around Bryce Young. Corley is the best YAC guy in the draft, and reverses, WR screens, quick hitters, etc. will need to be a big part of our offense. However, we did not have a TE or WR who was built for that kind of thing--Laviska was who they tried to convert to that role, but he spent the year on IR. I think Corley will be a Panther, taken with pick 101 with some form of a trade up. I think, depending on free agency, we could draft 2 WRs. Of course there will be trades, but I see (and this will anger some people if it comes true): 33. Legette (I think he will fall to us at #33) 65. A CB 101. Corley I am not thinking TE because I think the draft is not that deep at TE. I expect a free agent, or maybe the new system will promote Tremble more and help Hurst return to form. Not sure what we are doing with the OL, so I hate to pick one. BC at LG? Is Corbett all better? Can Icky learn LT? Is Moton's contract going to send him packing? Can Bozeman get it together?

That is the guy who gets out of the car after you flip him off during a road rage incident. Doesn't matter whose fault it was at that point.

First of all, thank you for presenting data to support your argument. This is interesting, and until Evero leaves, these numbers are telling. While these do not indicate number of snaps, I do have a few observations: Gross Matos must hold the edge while rushing instead of pinning his ears back. 19 pressures in very encouraging. Secondly, Barno seems to be a specimen of an athlete who pressured the QB nearly as frequently as Burns in the number of plays he was in the game. If those two players develop and are given more opportunities, as a salary cap manager/GM, you have to look at the productivity difference. In 2023, Barno was in on 20% of the snap counts (188). Burns was in on 83% of the snap counts (814). So if you mathematically give Barno the same number of snaps that Burns had, Barno would have had 37 pressures. This is not to say the Burns sucks, it is to demonstrate the fine line between a guy drafted with the 10th pick in the first round and a guy drafted with the 10th pick in the sixth round. Barno lacks the sacks, and it is a fair argument to suggest that he was not facing the attention of the offense given Burns. But Burns' numbers do not reflect an elite edge rusher. Instead of comparing him to the teammates he is taking playing time from, lets look at the players he sees as his equals in terms of expected salary: Nick Bosa makes $34m per season, a salary similar to what Burns wants. At the time, that salary was the largest in NFL history for a non-QB. In 2022, for reference, Bosa finished No. 1 in the league last season in pressures (73), sacks (18.5) and sack rate (4.0%), according to Next Gen Stats. Brian Burns wants nearly $30m, close to Bosa's salary. If you Cherry pick his statistics, you can make a case for a salary in the Maxx Crosby range ($23m). However, the stat that bothers me most about Burns is underlined below--he is ineffective, according to this stat, nearly 90% of the time: "Burns has recorded 30.5 sacks over the last three seasons — seventh most in the league — and his 174 total pressures ranked fourth. Nonetheless, his pass rush win percentage remains low, averaging just 10.5% over that time span." Nick Bosa, in 2023, doubled Burns pressure total (82 to 40) and more had 2.5 more sacks even though it was a disappointing year for him. But Burns wants to be paid somewhere between Maxx Crosby ($23.5m) and Bosa ($34m). Crosby had 73 pressures and 14.5 sacks in 2023. Burns performance suggests that he should be paid less than Crosby. Burns is probably worth $21-22m per season--maybe $23m with inflation. He wants $29-30m, the way I understand it.

The novelty of Brady will bring in ratings for a while, but Olsen is good. I used to like Romo, but I am getting tired of him. I'd rather watch the Manning brothers butcher a game. They are great (unless the panthers are playing, then I want the game called, not some stupid interview of what the Rock eats for breakfast).

I get your point, and I agree that a restructure is the way to go. If not, however, while Moton might be our best OL, is he worth $30m? I do not think that you are suggesting that he is, so I simply use this post to make a comparison--and it is not to argue with you: 1. Keep Moton and $30m contract at RT. Moton is probably a 7.5 on a scale of RTs from 1-10. 2. Move BC there, save $17m. Christensen would probably be a 5.5 to 6 at RT, in my estimation. Spend $12 million signing TE Fant, spend $5m on a pass-catching RB.

Personally, I think you should draft an OL every year depending on the depth of the draft at the position. However, when you trade away your picks, it becomes more about need. https://themessenger.com/sports/2024-nfl-draft-strongest-weakest-position-groups According to this source, this is a very good draft at QB, WR (9 in the top 50; 13 in the top 100), CB (no elite players, but a lot of depth--we could use one. 8 in the top 50 players; 13 in the top 100), OT (seven with top 50 grades but it drops off after that) and IOL (There are 8 solid players expected to go between picks 51 and 100). Terrible draft for TE, RB, Edge (good on day 1, depth is weak), S (depth) and DT (on days 2 and 3 you can find the penetrating 3 techniques, however.) What this means: We will probably take a WR at #33 because the need and value will be there. We will probably take a CB (Horn oft injured, Jackson too. Frankly, if teams threw on us more, our CBs would have been exposed) I am guessing that we draft an interior offensive lineman based on our current situation. (If Moton or Ekwonu is injured, BC would move from G to T. So we need a G/C type more than at T type at this time, imo.) At TE, we have Hurst, Tremble, and (from IR) RIcci, who flashed as an effective receiving TE in the past. I do not see why Tremble is not our blocking TE, and he flashed this season as well. We simply do not use the TEs effectively. They can be used better to help with speed rushers and they can run more than curls and outs--they need to drag across the middle to keep the ILBs out of Bryce's face. The way the TEs were used pisses me off. I don't want to talk about it). Maybe we go after Noah Fant? He would be a relatively cheap free agent with a connection to GM and coach here. (I would guess under $8m?) X(avier) marks the Spot: A WR I really like the Xaviers. Xavier Worthy for the play-action pass offense, although he is a bit slight. He is an all-around WR who can give formation flexibility. Xavier Legette is large and fast--and he will be there on day 2. YAC guy: (based on his history of open field running--think WR screens, reverses, etc.) is Western Kentucky's Malachi Corley, a player who could be there around pick 101. Catch Radius (Mike Evans type) guy: While not as good as Evans, Johnny Wilson is 6-7 and is projected to run under 4.5. He could be there at pick 101. Who needs an additional TE with Wilson on the field. Tangent Finis

I have never seen a C draft this good. Ever. I think Bozeman was flanked by two confused guards and A gap was attacked all year long. I am not sure that he is as bad as he looked, but yeah, he looked bad at times.

Not to sound repetitive, but we have already invested in this OL--Icky is a first round pick, BC a third, Bozemen and Corbett signed as free agents, and Moton--that is $57m in cap room for this season. As stated, they need a new coach, new system (the play action approach vs. shotgun is interesting--it deserves its own thread.) and healing. I agree 100%. Some depth would be nice, but as you pointed out, we have that under contract too--just need to develop it. I really think Campen was a waste of time.

That is in the back of my mind as well. However, Icky could be a stud for a long time at LT, and BC might be average. Not sure-

As a former coach on a much smaller level, I can say that I have seen growth and the light come on when the players finally "buy in" to what you are doing. I imagine these young guys looked to Campen and others for answers and they were not served.

I think we are often quick to start moving people in and out when the problem is scheme and coaching. Our OL will heal, be better prepared, and the system will favor their skill sets.

I agree--but Tepper wants a soccer field. That being said (jokingly) we need 2 solid reserves who can play all 5 positions well. I honestly think Mays showed a lot of improvement, but since he was not being coached well (opinion), I think he can develop. I did not see much hope for the others (Jensen, Zavala). They were terrible.

I try to never make blanket statements when there are so many variables to consider. I admire the position that builds confidence in your players and optimism for the expected results, but the approach is based on the situation, not some code or creed. Even the best generals knew when to charge and when to retreat. While I admire the guts, I do not admire the leadership in this case. I still give Campbell a ton of credit for his success.

Personally, i think this offensive line will not be as bad this year, even if they do nothing. However, there are some really interesting questions/points of discussion. The purpose here is not to force my opinion, but to start a dialogue. Assume that Bryce will be the QB (because this is the real world and it is unlikely that we move on from Bryce this early. We hired a QB savant for a reason.) Yet we have a situation. Moton is solid but not spectacular, and he is slated to earn $29.75m in 2024 and again in 2025. He is 30. Something, in my opinion, needs to be done about this. stay tuned. Ekwonu has not been very good at LT for two seasons. His coach is a foul-mouthed, football-kissing (with tongue, I heard), Tepper snitch whose players demonstrated little in the areas of growth, proper technique, preparation, and self-discipline (Penalties). Is it fair to kick Icky inside now, or should we hire a coach who works on his technique? He has the tools. His lack of preparation led to false starts, holding penalties, and sacks. He has upside, so do you kick him inside? Christensen is a stud athlete, but those skills are not really utilized here. Just a reminder from his pre-draft workouts: His 10-foot-4-inch broad jump was eye-popping, and a sign of the kind of explosive ability. a 34-inch vertical leap a 4.89 second 40-yard dash. To put those numbers into context, his 40 time would have been the second-fastest among offensive linemen at the 2020 Scouting Combine (behind only Buccaneers first-round pick Tristan Wirfs' 4.85). The broad jump mark would have been best among blockers; the vertical jump, third. Christensen also had 30 repetitions of the 225-pound bench press (which would have been fifth-most at last year's Combine), and his times in the short-shuttle and three-cone drill would have been second best among offensive linemen. Personally, I do not see him as a guard, and his numbers support this. But how do you have this kind of athlete and get nothing from him? That is what coaches do. I realize that BC was injured this season, but he was kicked around and not provided a position as a rookie and he had Campen as his coach last year. What a waste. Here are my thoughts, and this is to suggest there will be some form of change. This takes into account Moton's crippling cap figure, Ickey's rawness, and BC's misuse--all opinions that can be debated, but I think we might agree that this is common ground. Some options that come to mind: 1. Switch BC and Ickey. If you do that, you do the same thing to Ickey that you did to BC. However, Ickey might be a stud G--I just wish he had been developed. Most experts agree that Ekwonu has the size, strength, and skill set to be a strong LT for another decade. BC's upside at LT is probably average. Ickey's upside at G is probably elite. 2. Draft a LG and make BC a reserve swing OT. 3. Cut Moton (post June 1 saves around half the $$) and move BC to RT. Draft a T with pick 33 or 65 4. Waive Moton (not sure if anyone takes that contract) Draft a T w/ pick 33 or 65 5. Trade Moton (again, not sure about the cap if we do) Draft a T w/ pick 33 or 65 6. Restructure Moton, paying him until he is 35--not too old for an OL. 7. Leave it the way it is. BC was not developed as a LG, maybe he will be now. I think this needs to be decided before free agency and the draft. So if you look at the OL as it stands, you have an investment of nearly $57m for five offensive linemen. That is nearly 1/4 of the entire cap ($240m) for 2024. The OL has potential, but has (my opinion) not been developed since Campen arrived. LT: Ekwonu ($7,500,000 salary cap figure for 2024) LG: Christensen ($1,650,000 salary cap figure for 2024) C; Bozeman ($7,640,000 salary cap figure for 2024) RG: Corbett ($10,100 salary cap figure for 2024) RT: Moton ($29,750,000 salary cap figure for 2024) The depth? I see only Cade Mays as a player with hope to become a dependable backup. These are the kinds of posts I like during the off season. It is long, thereby filtering out the crowd who want to bitch and moan without data or prethought. What say you, realistically? Remember, we need 2 WRs, a TE, maybe a pass-catching RB, etc. We do not have a first rounder and our cap space is limited if you think about Burns, Brown, etc.

About Campbell--he took a team that has never sniffed the super bowl in 57 years and had them on the doorstep. Wilkes gave up 24 points in the first half at home to an underdog. Campbell beat himself--live by the sword, die by the sword. Wilkes was not holding the sword. Dropped passes, a key fumble, not kicking 2 FGs--Detroil beat themselves. Full stop.

change the turf to grass and keep him. He has not earned a fat, healthy second contract, so it is reasonable to expect to keep him for a fair price for the next 5 years or so. I am very suspect of this playing surface (look at the injuries--4 guards (BC, McRay, Zavala, Corbett), Shaq, Horn, Anderson (remember him? I don't), Ricci, Hurst, Wooten, Shenault--not sure how many were directly related to the turf, but it contributed to the IR issues. Our defense played well with our starting Captain LB and #1 draft pick Horn out for most of the season. Our offense was missing (for a large part of the season) 2 starting guards and our former first round selection TE. Lotta problems we had were based on the subpar performance in those 3 areas.

Some of you have such piss poor attitudes about everything--I can't imagine what it is like to be around you.

We had artificial surface and CMC was often injured. He will be 28 next season-RBs, historically, peak at 27. So he was not going to make a difference here as long as Tepper and his clown show are calling shots. SF got a great deal, we got some picks that were like giving $ to a teenager at the fair--gone in 30 minutes.

Damn Tepper? What the hell is wrong with you? Are you TRYING to suck?

Different eras, but Mingo is where Moose was after 22 games. I would not expect a Rookie to show #1 WR skills (rarely does that happen--maybe Chase in Cincy?) but I think he has #2 WR potential. With Thielen in the slot, we need a #1. At this time, there is no reason to call him a bust or make him a future star. I will say that if we build the OL, the WRs, QBs, TEs, and RBs "improve."

This is a good draft for WR. I would watch this kid from Western KY--Corley--great YAC guy--in the third or fourth. He would be great as a play action WR or screen--Bryce needs a guy like that. I also would not be too surprised to see us grab another one at 33.