MHS831

If we did tell him that and then don't draft him and word gets out that we were lying to prospects, that could hurt us in the undrafted free agent area. I think he is paraphrasing--maybe they said something like, "We'd love to have you as an option at 33."

Reading between the lines, I see Legette as a person who wants to come to Carolina and maybe he is trying to control the narrative. I would never tell a player being picked at 33 that he is the pick--what if we get a great trade offer? What if a Thomas, Mitchell, or Ladd is there? "Oh well, we promised Legette..." Not buying it.

Why would you tell a player in the second round that? Crazy

I love the analysis part--you were clear, but I wanted the extra gold star on my paper.

So if you think you know more than Morgan and Canales in relation to Young, say so. They seem to think they can make something of Young--but some of you are acting as if you know more than them. What would you do differently, and how did you acquire so much football acumen? (2 part question).

That is intentionally misleading, but if it makes you feel right, ok. The problem attributed to Young was a problem attributed to another short QB. How did the team overcome that issue and get him to the hall of fame? They paid guards. Now, that is what Morgan did. That is the comparison. It suggests that the GM and head Coach are going to do the same thing here. That is what was stated. Are you claiming to know more than the GM and Head Coach? That is a yes or no question.

Bryce is short. I knew that going in. Answer this question and I will let you all claim victory. If you are so certain that Bryce is going to fail, why would a new coach and GM not cut him right away? They have no ties to him. Why would they simply not make Andy the starter? Are they stupid? If you can answer that question without creating some hyperbolic assumption presented as fact, you will convince me. Yes, Bryce is short. Got it. What is the difference between two inches when it is six feet vs 6' 5" or 5'10" vs. 6' 5"? I just refuse to throw players and coaches under the bus until they have had a chance to do what they say. I also respect their expertise. However, if you knew in your heart that Young is not going to cut it, you cut him immediately. Play Andy and draft Nix or even Rattler. They could do that, but I doubt it. So you are a new GM or a new coach and Bryce is your QB. What do you do the minute you take over and why didn't Canales and Morgan?

The comparison is to a player at the same position with the same criticism (QB, hopping). It is how New Orleans built the program around a shorter QB. Gold Jacket. Cannot think of a more appropriate comparison.

I see it too, don't get me wrong. My thing is, "how can we fix it?" Give him time, protection, and weapons. If not, he is out. If Morgan and the new coaches did not think they could develop him as is, they would not want to inherit Fitterer's mistakes. The only thing that worries me--is Tepper involved in this? Did he hire Canales on the condition that he could fix his mistake, which is why Canales was hired? If not, I trust that Morgan and Canales have some ideas.

Sign two stud Guards? That is what New Orleans did.

If the problem was unfixable, I see it as a real problem. I have yet to hear an issue that could not be corrected with some reps and a good coach. So we shall see. Would I pick Bryce Young if we could do it over again? He'd probably be my third or fourth choice, to be honest, but he has been successful when the pieces were around him. Canales plans to do that. Will it be enough? Not sure. Nobody is, which is the point. It is hard to win an argument when the people on the Huddle never act as if they know more than they do or overreact in any way. If only I were blessed with such omnipotence! (Just kidding--I enjoy the banter).

I agree. I doubt there is much to it.

I agree, but I think CB is just as bad as LB. However, both starting LBs will be 30. Thompson is probably gone in 2025. In the draft, there are about 5 good to decent ILBs and they will go between early second to mid third (Wilson, Cooper, Colson, Trotter, Gray).

This will blow minds--they could go OL and CB, CB and LB, or OL and LB--in the second and take the WR in the third. It all depends on who falls to them and if they trade back. But CB is the biggest need on this team right now. We are just focused on the offense around Bryce. I really like the CBs who are projected to go mid second to mid third. Good group, imo.

cant believe there were six pages of this.

Good post! I will respond to your names (because you wanted feedback--you did not say good feedback). then I will provide my list. What I think we'll do: (I'd be nervous but still somewhat excited) Nate Wiggins CB Clemson: I just think he is CJ Henderson II. I think we need CBs who are strong in run support, and I question this about him. Xavier Legette WR South Carolina Not a good route runner and he is not known for separation, our biggest problem. However, if we use him differently--his strength is YAC. I have not heard this yet, and his problems are fixable. He is a great athlete. Jonathan Brooks RB Texas This, to me, is more likely than people realize. The Panthers want a stud RB behind Bryce. While I would wait until the end of the draft because Chubba is entering his prime, I can see this as an option. Giving Bryce weapons does not mean WRs. TEs and RBs count too. Brooks caught 25 passes for nearly 300 yards in just 10 games in 2023 (before his injury) and he rushed for 1100 yards in 10 games. He would be a weapon. Brenden Rice WR USC It is hard to believe the son of the best WR of all time is a sleeper. However, this draft has 2 other WRs from NFL Royalty (Harrison, McCaffrey) and I would want all of them on my team. Rice is big enough to play the X and has upside. I can see it. They brought him in, so they might like him. We shall see. Austin Booker EDGE Kansas As with many edges taken after round 1, they are very "boom or bust." Booker has the skills we need, and he seems to fit the mold of a guy that comes on strong during his second or third NFL season. With Clowney on a 2-year deal, this is the time to find a rotational Edge to develop. Who I want: Zach Frazier C WVU At first I thought, "He does not have the range to play in a wide zone scheme, but the more I watched him on videos, the more I disagree with that assumption. He is a punishing C who would intimidate any LB deciding to blitz A gap. With a 5' 10" QB, that might be what we need. Ja'Lynn Polk WR Washington--I have not considered him as much so I need to watch some videos and read a few analyses. Malik Washington WR Virginia (he was all they had at Virginia, but he stepped up. I think he is a perfect fit for us long term.) Ben Sinnott TE Kansas State This TE class is catching a bunch of heat from the experts, probably because their is such a huge drop from Bowers to everyone else. Sinnott is a bruiser who played, among other things, a FB role at KSU. He is tough, can block, and had over 1000 yards receiving during 2022 and 2023. I like him. Caelen Carson CB Wake Forest Personally, I like Carson. I think the draft is LOADED with these mid round CBs who can immediately improve our depth. I like James from Auburn, Sanristil from Michigan (who will go round 2, my guess), and Max Melton from Rutgers. Blake Watson RB Memphis I can see it, but he is a bit small, which works to his advantage. He will turn 25 during the season, which means he is likely a one-contract player--and that is fine with me, frankly--I would not have a RB on a second contract--I'd treat them like college players--four years and done. I also like Benson (Fla St), 245 lb. Allen from Wisconsin, Davis from SD State, Estime from Notre Dame, and Vidal from Troy. We have no reason to take a RB until day 3. *Shoutout to Sainristil, Kneeland, & CO State's Kamara. Some additional targets I like. MHS's Panther Draft Bible for NFL Agnostics What I would do: 1. Pick 33. I think we trade back with the 33rd pick and either pick up that second rounder in 2025 or grab another player at the end of round 2 and a third rounder. There are some exceptions: If WRs Thomas or Mitchell are there, they take the WR. Having said that, I think Morgan and Luke have made comments about Payton Wilson. He is special in their eyes. I also think they should be worried about the CB position and how we have a former 7th rounder Dane Jackson at one CB, and the best CB in the NFL when healthy at the other side--he is just never healthy. We are weak with an aging CB at Nickel. This is a bigger need than we realize, but because the offense is the focus, they are not talking about it. If Kool Aid drops, he could be the pick at 33. I FEAR that we do something stupid like draft a RB in the second. I would also take Center Graham Barton from Duke at #33 if he falls. He is going to be an all-pro center for a decade, and I think a smart C would help any developing QB. 2. Pick 39. I am crushing on the following players: Wilson (LB), Ladd (WR), Pearsall (WR), Frazier (C), Chop (Edge--I think he is over valued and could fall to around 40), and this will blow minds--Jordan Morgan (T). I think we could take Morgan and try to trade Moton and some of that $30m cap hit. He is 30 and probably in his last year regardless. In my mind, we are building to launch a competitive team in 2025, and the fewer rookies you need to count on in 2025 the better. Morgan is a solid OT. However, we have a veteran swing T and Brady Christensen, but this is not a depth move--this is finding a starter who can replace a huge cap drainer. If the goal is to change the offense so that the QB releases the ball in 2.7 seconds, any temporary drop off in production is worth the long term value. 3. Pick 65. I think we need a starting-caliber WR, CB, and TE--but I am not sure that a TE better that Tremble will be available. The "sweet spot" for CBs is from the middle of the second round to the middle of the third. If we trade down as suggested, I would target Sainristil (who is nearly 24) or Rakestraw in the mid to late second. If not, target Melton (Rutgers) Green or Jones (FSU), Jackson (Ore) Tampa (Iowa St) or my favorite, James (Auburn). This is where you shop for CBs, imo. My realistic dream scenario? Margo Robbie is wearing a silky....OK, I am back. 33. Graham Barton, C (Will be best C in NFL quickly) Solidify the OL now and address RT next year. 39. Ricky Pearsall, WR (A great athlete that has been pigeon holed into the slot or F WR spot. He is a better athlete and much younger than Thielen, who had 1000 yards last season.) 65. DJ James, CB. Many boards have him anywhere from 65 to 175--but he is a good player. What will the Panthers do? draft a WR at 33 (Thomas, Mitchell, or Legette) draft Payton WIlson at 39. draft a RB or CB at 65.

But the NFL experts still have not arrived at that conclusion. I get what you are saying, but they would have cut their losses had they been as certain as you seem to be. Canales thinks he can fix it, and if you run more out of the pistol and shotgun, the drop back issue can be mitigated by scheme. If he has a system of reading his pre-snap target and then to his check down, the bouncing can be mitigated. I worry--don't get me wrong--but I don't think the NFL coaches and execs surrounding him are in a position to lose to prove they did not pick the wrong guy. We let Baker go, and many were saying the same stuff about him. Canales had less than a year with him before he became their starter, and he was incredibly improved. I just do not think now is the time to be writing him off. This discussion is important--you have seen enough to move on--I have not. If we agreed all the time, this would not be a discussion board, it would be a cult.

I like Ladd, Pearsall, then Washington (his production at UVa was impressive). Corley? I am not sure he is much more than a Shenault, but I have to read up on him and watch some videos. TE is sorely needed, and a RB thumper is indeed something this offense needs. There are some I really like (listing schools to avoid looking up names) Wisconsin, Kentucky, and Troy. All should be day 3 picks.

Yeah, if we go pre draft, I agree 100%. But if you are really looking at mechanics when the WRs were not running good routes and getting separation, the system was not for Bryce, no decent TE, always playing from behind (DL and LBs tee off), a terrible OL, RBs averaging under 4 yards per carry, and the play calling was described by some announcers as "predictable," Bryce may have had the worse situation ever. Yes, these circumstances would have definitely put the mechanical issues under the microscope. Now think about his high school to Bama years. He was always in the lead, always had the better OL, always had a good D, always had elite WRs. We saw him in the best case scenario and his mechanical issues were not issues then--We saw him in a perfect scenario. I mean, how many games per year does Bama have a legit chance of losing? 3 or 4?

WHen Chark came out around 2018, he was known as a burner with good height who was not a good route runner and had suspect hands. In the NFL, he was injured a lot, and from what I saw, he never improved. Even with his speed, he was such a one trick pony he struggled to get open in the deep third.

When I played, players that were juicing did not even try to hide it. I went into the dorm room of one of my teammates from Miami and he had syringes stuck in his bulletin board. No, he was not diabetic. He was cut, huge, and moody. Not sure how he dodged the drug test bullets---he even bragged about using in closed circles. I think there was others doing it too, but I did not roll with that side of the room.

I was very surprised that they had Pearsall rated so low. To me, he is around #6. I personally think that he is perhaps the best day 2 candidate and would fit our needs if you look into 2025 and beyond. Smart, a great athlete (won nearly every category at the combine), has excellent hands and runs good routes. Am I missing something?

Here is the bottom line---if you assume that the offense was bad because Young was bad, then that position is understandable. If you assume Young was bad because the offense was bad, that is understandable. Personally, I think Bryce will improve a lot in 2024. There just aren't too many rookie (or veteran) QBs who would have done well under these circumstances....full stop. I have NEVER heard so many different experts (game announces throughout the season) analysis experts, talk so much about a team's receivers not getting separation. Experts know how important this is because the qb has about a second to get the ball in that window--we did not have any windows. Furthermore, we had 7 different LGs and 8 different RGs. 62 sacks, most up the middle. So he had people in his face with no open receivers. And people are saying, Bryce sucks!! My question is this: What is he supposed to do? Make sure his plant foot is secure and he is holding the ball to his ear?

He has some good arguments, but too often in life we address the symptoms of the problem as the problem. If we address the problem correctly, the mechanics improve. I would like to know what he is supposed to do with DTs and LBs in his face in 2.5 seconds when his WRs are not open. Plant that back foot and throw a dart?