MHS831

Just an option that people aren't considering. To defend Jones, he has never really had a good situation, and you and I know that the situation is critically important for any QB. Jones had a good season--I do not look at it that way--I look at his skill set, size, and what he has demonstrated when the situation was good--and he has excelled in that situation, based on the data I reviewed. Goff was not good in LA and they wanted to get rid of him---Detroit got a ton for Stafford and may have the better QB. Darnold struggled in two situations and sat in SF, but he has weapons and a good defense in Minnesota, and he is doing well. Mayfield found a home in Tampa that is matched with his style of play. Here, a player like Jones who has never had the four ingredients a successful QB needs: OL, WRs, Running game, and TEs. He has had 2 of 4 most of the time. Drafting Ward or Sanders is risky because you don't address Edge unless you spend $30m in free agency--and who wants to come to Carolina? Jones needs new scenery and here, he has the 4 ingredients--and if the defense is rebuilt--he will be good. You pay him the same you would an elite Edge in free agency, and you can turn the page in 2 years if that is the decision. Here, Jones has a top 10 OL, a stout running game, solid young WRs (that will need a veteran QB), and a developing TE. In addition, this move back in the draft allows you to draft a QB who is not pressured to succeed right away--like so many busts have. Allar, for example, is 20--in two years under Jones, he would be 23 and developed. Just a thought. Is there any answer that is right? Nope. I just see in Jones what others have seen in skilled QBs in bad situations. Trade back, get your edge, sign Jones, draft a WR and QB on day 2. To me, it is less risky than rolling the dice again on an early round QB who must sink or swim from day 1. But, yeah, there is a chance this does not work. I think it would be the smart move.

Thanks--I do to (love thinking that's outside the box). I think the best QB from this draft will not be Sanders or Ward, for some reason--but Sanders will be a better pro than Ward, in my opinion. In 10 years, we will look back and say, "Hmmm. Who knew Rourke would be the steal of that draft?" (example). Nussmieir and Allar are on my radar now-- If you need an edge on defense, where are you going to find a starter except in round 1? (Or overpay for a veteran). Instead of putting all eggs in the Jones basket, and stats prove that he can play in perfect conditions, you basically bring in an experienced, perhaps transitional qb, and you draft a QB later and develop him. So you are adding 2 QBs to the QB problem and not going "all in" on a guy who may simply be a system qb in college and can't transition. An early first rounder is usually forced to start so they do not get a year or two in the QB room watching a veteran work and improve. If Ward becomes the next Patrick Mahommes, you look stupid, but in this scenario, (and it is not perfect--still a risk) you fill the edge need, draft a QB, sign a veteran QB, and allow Bryce to compete. Three options and you get the edge and a WR in the draft. I will be watching Jones vs. Panthers (32nd in the NFL in QB pressures) closely Sun AM. If he plays well vs. us, it validates what I am saying and he could be beaten down for reasons beyond his doing. We shall see (That is why I am mentioning this stuff this week_). Take care

I have been living on the edge this week--and I put out on another thread or created one--maybe in always current "2023 Draft" board/room, that we should consider trading back even if Cam Ward is there. I am not sold on his entire body of work--and wonder if he is a system QB (I hate saying that) or if he is finally putting it all together. Here is what I know---(repeating myself): The Giants are down on Daniel Jones after giving him a huge deal after the 2022 season, one where he had a pretty good supporting cast. In 2023 he had a horrible OL and struggled. His weapons? Not good. In 2024, he has NO running game behind him, there have been a few key injuries to the OL...For the past 2 years, this pocket passer has been pressured a lot--most in the league (according to one article--I read several and did not save links---this is from memory). THIS SHOCKED ME: Throughout his career, he is ranked #7 when throwing from a clean pocket. He is 6' 5" and 230--I imagine about 8 inches taller and 50 lbs heavier than Bryce and he is probably more mobile that Bryce. We have a good OL, and could probably upgrade at C and maybe T. With Canales teaching the 2.4 seconds rule, he could be better in a different setting. The Giants are talking about benching him. Daboll is desperate and on the hottest of hot seats---they can't really cut him now--cap hell. However, If we acquired him, we'd only owe his remaining salary, not his signing bonus, and that figure would be about $60m for 2 seasons. The Giants would love getting out of that and might even absorb some costs. Jones gets a strong running game, awesome OL, and if we draft a WR early, XL, Thielen, Coker, Moore, and a stud rookie would be pretty impressive. If Sanders (TE) keeps developing and Tremble can stay healthy, TE is better than it has been for a while. I think Jones, at age 29, would be ready to step in and make things happen--a Darnold/Mayfield story. Jones contract is good through 2026, so that gives you time to evaluate him. In the draft, trade down, add a second rounder. Draft an edge, then a WR with one of the round 2 picks and then get a developmental QB (even if you have to trade back up) like Nussmieir, Rourke, Allar, or someone similar to Jones to develop for two seasons. In round three, get a DT (Morgan has drafted well later in the draft, so we could add another ILB. On defense, we get Wonnum back and Brown returns. Wallace is a year older, and we added a DT. Horn and Jackson are solid CBs, Smith-Wade??? not sure. So we are not far off. If we draft Ward, it is another high risk high reward situation. It does not give us that added second rounder or the ability to draft that edge we need so badly. Jones' stock is down, but if you do your homework, you understand that he needs protection and weapons, perhaps more than most QBs. This year, defenses are not worried about Tracy and the other RB who are each averaging under 50 yards per game. Saquan Barkely is gone. Here, he has a stocked garage at RB, developing weapons at WR and TE, and a good OL. When that happened in the past (albeit on a lesser scale) Jones was the #7 ranked passer from the pocket--and he has mobility and speed at 6'5". He is currently 28. Just sayin. Now if someone responds by saying "Jones sucks!" It means you did not read this. Jones comes back to his hometown. Its a damn Disney movie!

My rule (but nobody listens!!) is to never give a second contract to a RB--this one is decent. Always remember, contracts are not rewards--they are for expected future performance, everyone! On offense, with Brooks, Chuba could earn this contract--so I will hold my breath. I also think we have all the pieces in place--except a QB==on offense.

dawgs

I saw that too--but I want to give credit where it is due. I he gets waived or put on the PS---nobody is picking him up. Gotta bring it every down, but that was surprising and I think we owe it to each other and ourselves to be as objective as we can regarding opinions. If it were up to me, I would cut him---fwiw

I think this is spot on. The difference, in my opinion, is QB. In 2022, Jones was QB 9 and Daboll and the Giants seemed like they were back. A decent OL, good WRs, and a solid Running game. In 2023, the Giants had some injuries to the OL and it was terrible--worse than our OL. WRs were terrible. No real TE. Barkley was it. Jones was pressured from the pocket as much as Bryce Young and Fields. This season, Jones is QB 7 in the NFL when throwing from a clean pocket; during the offseason, Shoen tried to revamp the OL like we did and instead of going after a QB in the draft, decided WR was a bigger need and drafted Nabers, hoping the OL improvement and the stud WR would make Jones better. But they lost the running game (Barkley). A few OL injuries here and there and a bit of underperformance, and Jones is facing new demons--nobody is afraid of Tracy or Singletary, NY's top 2 running backs--even if you include their receiving yardage--they cannot best Barkley's rushing yards alone in Philly. All that to make 2 points: Jones is a top 7 QB (according to the stats) when throwing from a clean pocket. The Panthers are 32nd in the league in the area of pressuring the passer. With injuries to the OL, no TE threats to speak of (21 receptions combined), a weak running game, Daboll is on the hot seat; there is even talk of Benching Jones for Drew Lock. Expect Jones to have a better day vs. the Panthers than he would most other teams. He can run (we can't get off the field on third downs). We will have to blitz (knowing that he is deadly from a clean pocket) and that could create throwing lanes and running lanes for Jones. I expect Jones to have a good day against us. Having said that, considering the success of Darnold and Mayfield, Jones is only 28. He has a big cap figure, and if the Giants decide to move on from him (remember, when he had better WRs, linemen, running game, and WRs as he did in 2022, Jones was good and got a big contract. This might be a game where we can observe Jones to see if he might be a good fit here. He is 6'5" and 230 and mobile. Smart, but he tends to hold the ball too long at times (no WR open, no TEs, and no running game)--understandable. The Panthers, however, could give him all he needs to be successful. (I know some of you are screaming, "No! He sucks!" I think he is perfect for our system. We need to add a WR. Sanders needs to continue to develop and maybe we need another good TE. The OL? Maybe we grab a center. Not sure what is going on with Ickey. In other words, he would be really good with a strong running game, clean pocket, and weapons. We could trade for him (picking up a player with a big contract that the team is trying to unload is not giving up a lot), then we could trade back a bit in the draft and get a WR and Edge rusher. His salary is about $20m after bonuses, etc. Shoen and Morgan have a relationship. We could then draft someone like Allar, Nussmieir, Beck, Ewers, Rourke, Dart,etc. to groom behind Jones, who would have 2 years on his contract. Just a thought. Instead of reaching for another #1 or #2 overall rookie QB, we get an established QB who could be much better here, enabling us to move back in the draft to add a second rounder or late first. We could draft a C with the second, second round draft pick. This is not as exciting as taking Ward or Sanders, but it might be smarter.

this observation is going make me very popular on the Huddle--can't wait for the love and positive reactions. It is about the QB school video here and something my eagle-like eye noticed--not about Bryce. About Ian Thomas. I was not watching him, but there were a few plays I saw him as a flanker or something and he went in motion and blocked the edge. Twice I was watching Bryce and the overall protection, and I said to myself, "Self, who the hell was that motioning over and manhandling that Edge rusher?" At first i was like, "No way!" Then I saw him do something similar again. A TE in motion stonewalling an edge is no small feat. Watch the tape again and tell me what you think. I did not watch him the entire time--but he caught my eye when I was watching something else. Like when you are at the beach and inspecting a 6, wondering if she is possibly a 7 in the right lighting, and a 9 cuts in front of you. You are like, "Dang."

yes. I want to hear from the "Morgan Sucks" crowd on how many draft picks that contribute (remember, we did not have a first rounder and our second rounder #2 has yet to play--so basically, with no first rounder to trade, he got a stud WR, a stud RB (tbd), a solid ILB (raw), a solid TE, and a developmental CB. Coker is a keeper. That is a good haul, folks. If we can do this again, the foundation will form. I think I read somewhere that a good draft has 3 players contributing (starting, rotating in) within 2 years. If Morgan can draft as well as he did this year on day 2 and 3, that will be huge. I also like getting a fourth for Mingo and a seventh. Mingo got beat out by a practice squad rookie.

Hear me out--cause I got lotsa 'splaining to do. Doing some bottom fishing. This guy is 6'3" and runs a 4.45 40. gonna come back to that later. He is not on anyone's draft radar. However, I am thinking QB3, special teams, and possibly a pass-catching TE. Taysom Hill, you ask? I dunno. Maybe. However, his QB fundamentals (based on this website) are interesting in that he could be a dual threat option at QB. His height and speed make me curious about other positions--a slot WR or wide TE--depends on his hands, but he has the tools. Anytime you get a QB to play another position, they are intelligent--they understand the game better than other players. Can he catch? Is he a developmental QB who can play special teams? Here is what they say about him--as a QB. I am also going to show his qb measures. Scouting Report: Summary A gunslinger with wheels, King brings an explosive element to the quarterback position that will have NFL scouts salivating. His ability to stress defenses both vertically with his cannon arm and horizontally with his 4.4 speed makes him a scheme-diverse prospect. King's quick release and ability to deliver strikes from various arm angles will translate well to the next level, where getting the ball out quickly is paramount. However, King is still a work in progress in terms of consistency and decision-making. His tendency to play "hero ball" leads to turnovers, and he'll need to learn when to take the check-down or throw the ball away. His frame is also a concern, as he'll need to add bulk to withstand the rigors of an NFL season. King's accuracy on short and intermediate throws must improve for him to become a complete NFL quarterback. King profiles as a high-ceiling, developmental prospect who could benefit from time in an NFL quarterback room. His rare physical tools and playmaking ability make him an intriguing project for teams with established veteran quarterbacks. FWIW, King is the 22nd rated QB on NFLDraftBuzz.

You are right to target DT---our DTs are on skates. Brown and another stud would allow us to bring along edge rushers and get by without studs on the outside. In my view, a DT who can collapse the pocket and keep the qb in front of him is more valuable than a stud Edge (would you rather have a Chris Jones or a Bosa? To me, Brown and a stud DT would make the edge rushers and ILBs better.

This says a lot about Coker

Our DTs have been bad.

I think there are some QBs in this draft who could be good NFL QBs in the right situation--like SF was for Purdy. Here, we have the pieces in place for a tall QB with some mobility--I really like Rourke. I like Allar. I see the Ohio St QB being decent. Rourke and IU play Michigan next week--that will be a good test--momentum game.

I watched to OL--Hunt? Earn your money son---they bull rushed you into Bryce all day. BC? Good work. He was solid. I think better than what I saw of Corbett. Wonder how PFF saw it?

UPDATE: We lost the CCCC (Church Couples Costume Contest) but a good time was had by all!

This is his first successful year--he is 20. So I agree. Has some processing issues at times, but when compared to last year, night and day. I like him

The point wasn't are we sucking--we know that. However, we are making moves that will place us very high in the draft--I want the #1 pick, and I would trade out of it for draft capital--I think we need that for this franchise. But yes, you have to make the right decisions. Do you trade out and watch Cam Ward become an all pro? Do you trade back and draft busts?

The problem is grocery stores only have plastic bags now---maybe that would send a stronger message, however.

Over the past two weeks, we ReBryced and traded our Best WR for a handshake and a Wendy's coupon. With 9 games remaining, and one of those games vs. the Giants, getting rid of Johnson may benefit us NOT by getting a draft pick for next year related to his value, but by making losing more likely, thus improving our draft status overall. Unfortunately for you Tankers, there seems to be a logjam at the bottom of the NFL, with 10 teams with 2 or fewer wins. Here is how it looks, only, in your mind put the bottom teams at the top of your standings. With the Panthers' next two games against the Saints (they have a longer losing streak than we do at 6 games) and the lifeless Giants, the Panthers face the weakest teams left on their schedule. After the Giants, the Panthers have Kansas City, Tampa Bay x 2, Dallas, Arizona, Atlanta--in no particular order. While we do not yet know how well we will match up vs. TB, I do not see a win on this schedule after the Giants--I think we win 2 games this season--3 if we go on a win streak or stun someone. Remember, the last game vs Atlanta could be a meaningless game heading into the playoffs for Atlanta--they could rest starters. We could beat NYG and maybe Atlanta's reserves. So what about the rest of these teams? POSSIBLE WINS Miami: Raiders, Jets x 2, Patriots, Browns. (Tua is back--win estimate: 6) New Orleans: Panthers, Raiders, Giants, Browns, Bucs (win estimate: 5) Las Vegas: Saints, Dolphins, Bengals, Jaguars (win estimate: 5) Jacksonville: Titans x 2, Jets, Raiders, Colts (win estimate: 5) New York Jets: Colts, Dolphins x 2, Jaguars, Cardinals, Seahawks (win estimate: 5) Cleveland: Saints, Dolphins, Bengals (win estimate: 4) New England: Titans, Dolphins, Colts (win estimate: 3) New York Giants: Panthers, Saints, Colts (win estimate: 3) Tennessee: Patriots, Jaguars x 2, Colts, Bengals (win estimate: 2) Carolina: Saints, Giants, Bucs x 2 (win estimate: 2) Basically, what seems to be a 10-team hunt is probably closer to a four to five team hunt by the end of the season. However if you look at the top 10 tank teams, I am confident the following will be in the market for a QB: Panthers, Titans, Giants, Browns, Jets, and Raiders with Miami possible. I see the tankathon as a 4-horse race--I want to win it because I want to trade out. The QBs I like are going to be there later in round 1 that could change--

Not sexually, just to be clear, but he would get charged with Child abuse.

Morgan turned down the other offers because his butthole is sore. Dang--I want him to explain this to everyone. I am not sure about the salary part--what they meant

This means to me that we are locking up Chuba--he and Brooks are going to be the next Double Trouble. Horn will get paid too. We need a TE, QB, Edge or two, a LB, and maybe a DT and C (Christensen has not been bad so far).

Amazing hindsight--it was all for fun--but if you think about it, I proved that my long shot prognosis was wrong--not feeling too bad about it. I guess the bigger question is, what did your response to this prove about you? Seriously, Morgan could have gotten more--but we got him for nothing too--maybe this guy is a locker room cancer--I dunno.

Here is what I think I saw: He still bails too soon. When he completes a pass downfield, you can almost see 300 lbs of pressure fly off his back--until the next bad play. Slants are usually based on pre-snap reads and the rest is timing. His screens were predetermined and frequent. Reading the defense? That is when I see him scrambling in a good pocket. He has good plays as often as good QBs have bad plays.