MHS831

Yeah, but if they can get a team to take on part of the salary--they don't cut him a $19m check to leave town. If I am not mistaken, they were going with him as the starter were it not for Watson, so their may be something there.

I like him

Right, but if they cut him, they lose the ability to control his destination and the lose the entire $18.8m. If they could save half that and send him to the NFC, they should do it. I am not suggesting giving up major assets--just a sixth rounder or so if necessary. I think we currently have an offer on the table that expires on draft day---just a hunch because that is what I would do---and I would tell them it could be pulled at any time--no guarantees. I would offer a sixth rounder next year and split the salary.

But this was about what the GM might do. To me, its a matter of time before the Panther fan base starts hating the QB drafted at #6 (for 4 years) and doing so without a legit LT. Baker is a tool, but he played some decent ball before being hurt. He had a good OL in Cleveland, so if we add the LT....

It was a rumor that was repeated--not sure I believe it, not sure I don't.

I think it would be cool if we focused on the QB musical chairs game that has left Baker Mayfield standing in silence, and has left the Panthers with an empty chair. Of course we don't know what is happening behind the scenes, but I thought it was interesting that Fitterer would say, "in on every deal" and that the Panthers will "Keep swinging until they get a QB." It has simply been too quiet on the Baker Mayfield front and I think there is a potential analytical discussion here that we must discuss WITHOUT forcing our preferences and external variables into this very simple situation. Based on what I am hearing on TV while working, the Panthers (NFL Network) are the real focus of the draft. They are saying that #6 is where the drama begins. I agree--and it is really more intriguing with Baker Mayfield waiting to sit in our empty QB chair. For these purposes, let's pretend that they have eliminated all variables and the decision comes down to Mayfield/draft a T or draft a QB at #6. Correct my logic if you find it faulty: Baker Mayfield seems to have 1 potential suitor at the moment: The Carolina Panthers. Love him or hate him, that is not what this thread is about--so stay focused, y'all. The Panthers have a few options, thanks to the situation with Baker. There is no need to draft a QB desperately at #6 and bypass on that LT. Here are a few of the Panthers' options: 1. They could wait and see who is left at #6 and draft (or trade back). As soon as they make the pick, they could call Cleveland and make a deal for Baker if the pick was not a QB , but to me, that is showing your cards and might increase the price Cleveland will take--right now, we know they want to move him desperately, but that advantage changes when they know we don't have a pick until 137 and we passed on the QB pick at #6. They know we need a QB desperately. 2. If we take a QB at #6, we could sign Baker for a year to groom the new kid, but Baker is not going to play that--he'd become a distraction. If we take a QB at #6, Baker is pretty much off the table. We start Brady Christensen at LT. Sam probably starts the season and Rhule starts interviewing at various colleges. 3. If we decide to keep Cleveland on hold during the draft and then trade back to recoup some picks, every time a QB is selected, Baker's asking price increases. That is why I think the Panthers are negotiating for Baker, using the start of the draft as leverage. This takes me to option 4 of 327: 4. To me, the obvious play here is to decide right now if you are willing to give Baker a season in Carolina. If you are, you can likely draft the LT you have wanted and you get an NFL starting QB on a one-year rental. If he plays well, he will want a $40m per contract, and that is phase II of the Baker decision. This system could favor his playing style. If he doesn't play well, we draft his replacement in 2023 and start a rookie. Personally, I think there will be a trade made just before the draft--a week from now. Here is why: Baker's salary for 1 year (once Cleveland eats some of it) would not be much more than the #6 pick overall. Baker is better than any QB in the draft right now. Rhule and maybe Fitterer are playing for NOW. Baker's contract gives Scott F. an out. We can still draft a QB. Imagine the OTs are gone at #6. If we could trade back (an edge will be there) into the first round, add a second, we could still end up with an elite OL and a QB--and we'd still have Baker for a season. So I think the Panthers are considering Baker Mayfield and how we could get him for a sixth rounder and pay him about $9m. There is a fear that if he is not traded before the draft, he might have to wait for an injury once the season begins. Cleveland does not want that distraction. That would allow the Panthers to address OT, in all likelihood, and possibly land a starting QB in the process. This is a bargain--an opportunity for the Panthers to get value in the draft and the QB they desperately need. I know all the locker room crap and girl beating stuff--but let's assume they are rumors and the Panthers have done their homework like they did with Watson.

I see things in my head. It is a gift and a curse. I see us trading for Baker. I see Howell going to Detroit. I see Pickett going to Indianapolis. I see Ridder in Pittsburgh. I see Willis in Atlanta. I see Corral in Tampa Bay. Now that it is in writing--none of this will happen.

Perhaps the only reason I would be happy to see the Panthers trade for Jimmy G or Baker M is that it would indicate that we are getting a stud LT (probably Cross) or a stud Edge (probably Thibodeaux) or that we hope to trade back. I think that is the first step regardless of what we do. The Panthers, however, are considering trading back. Bringing in Howell, and that G from Chatanooga--both early day 2 picks. If we trade back and take Howell, there are likely no tackles left, so a top G in late round 2 or early 3 could be the play, moving Brady C to LT. That reeks of bust on three levels--but I share what THEY might be thinking, not what I want. Every now and then someone rips me for doing that, insisting that what I think they will do is synonymous with what I want--Nope.

I realize that many of you do not want another frog to kiss, but I honestly think, instead of taking Corral, you draft the LT and sign Baker. Yes--he can be a headache--but he is better than any of the draft picks and other free agents. If he plays well and wins the locker room-pay the man. If he is a cancer and does not take the team to the playoffs, you draft a QB in 2023 and build around him. We have the cap room and will get a discounted rate--my guess is he would cost us about $8-10m for 2022 and we have $30m in cap room. That is better than missing out on the LT and taking Corral, for example, only to find out he is a career backup. Baker provides an unexpected opportunity, even if you do not like him. Behind a good line with these WRs, he would be pretty good, imo.

Brady's system was a joke. It was as if he was using the Madden 2015 playbook at times. He lost CMC on offense and our #1 CB on defense--his offensive line was a putrid pile of crap. I am not sure he can do it even with CMC, Horn, and three new offensive linemen--and the new OL coach and OC. However, he has never played in good conditions that he trusts-- We can feel confident that he will (if he gets the opportunity) be improved. Enough? I dunno.

It kills me that people would make comments that suggest they know he will be good or bust. Just admit you don't know because you don't know. Bill Polian (talking about Pickett) said, "A QB is only as good as the players around him." This seems to be proven in the case of Howell. With that in mind, you could argue that Howell is undervalued. You could also argue for staying with Darnold. I mean, when he had CMC, Horn, etc., he was not bad. Here is where we are: Our QB is going to have some sort of baggage. Post surgery (Garrappolo), Locker Room (Baker), or one of the top 4 QBs in what is labeled a weak draft class. I think we should run the Notre Dame Box and eliminate the QB position altogether.

great timing, Verge. the next 10 days are going to be news starved. This caused me to think more about OTs--giving me more hope that we do not go QB. I still think they will trade back if given that option--unless Ikwonu or Neal is there.

If we dont want to trade back, we have to hope Sauce and Hamilton go in the top 5. I think it will go like this: 1. Jax: Walker DE Georgia 2. Detroit:Tibodeaux. DE Oregon 3. Houston: Ekwonu, OT NC State 4. NY Jets: Hutchinson, DE Mich 5. NY Giants: Neal OT, Alabama That leaves the Panthers in a weird situation. HOWEVER--if a team trades up ahead of the Panthers for a QB, that could leave NEAL on the board. Stay tuned.

Same page.

thanks--Here is the question: If we decide to go OT, will we make the QB free agency move before the draft? Hmmm.

I see the fit--that would give them 3 QBs and we have 3/4 of a QB.

Personally, I think any organization that tolerates these kinds of posts is already toxic.

But Darnold was only "mostly" dead.

This season represents the lack of vision--they went after an underperforming Darnold without a backup plan. They should have drafted Fields, tbh--even if they had Darnold. Instead, they had to give Darnold his fifth year contract because he was doing fairly well and we did not have a backup plan. Then it went south, and Rhule is now confronted with either another retread or a rookie---no vision. Scott Fitterer wants a rookie, but this year? Who knows. I keep thinking that Pickett will be Pick 6--and I hope that is not irony (Pick it at Pick 6). They sure found themselves in a mell of a hess. I get the feeling that Rhule lost his hope for success when Cleveland signed Watson.

I just don't see the logic behind adding a headache--you already know he and Robby are going to lock horns--and you just signed that headache to a deal--dysfunctional teams usually struggle.

Any free agent, capable starting QB we get right now is going to come with an asterisk. Murray*: Tiny wants to get paid a lot. Will ignore his contract and leverage his team for big bucks. Not sure if his heart is in it like some others. Is he a leader? Baker*: Beats women and lives in the stadium. I am OK with living in the stadium, but if the "beating women" thing is true--nope. A tool that is unliked by teammates. Thinks he is above the common man--playing the victim. Jimmy G*: Needs a great D, great OL, great running game to be average. If he were a cup, he would not be dishwasher safe and you would have to protect him in the cupboard with bubble wrap. Only use when company comes over, and that makes you nervous. (Not a durable, dependable cup). Always been with good organizations--can he handle Clowntown?

I know. Murray is not the QB to take you to the Super Bowl, imo. He flashes and has highlights, but at the end of the day, is he the answer? When will he decide that he needs another big, premature deal? A close look at NFL winning QBs over the past few decades will answer that question. I pass on Murray, Mayfield, and Minshew--(I added Minshew because is his last name starts with an M as well).

You skeptics amaze me. A starting NFL QB on a one-year deal would allow us to take a LT and become relevant overnight. "In on every deal." ---remember? I am not a fan of this, but we are one of about 5-6 teams without an eatablished starting-caliber QB. Who is going to make a trade for a fully guaranteed, $18.5 m contract? NOBODY--except the team that thinks they are in on every deal. I think Darnold to Cleveland will be part of any deal, or Cleveland eats about half of the Baker $$. Atlanta--can go with Mariota in 2022. Pittsburgh--build a line around Mitch Trubiski and he could be a nice fit. Seattle--they like Lock, and I am starting to think that is not smoke. Detroit--Not worth abandoning Goff. Philly--Not worth abandoning Hurts. New Orleans---I think they like Winston with Andy behind him.

And the names you mentioned are too classy to say a word--Arizona, for example, had some interesting QB play during Larry Fitz' time there. Not one peep. (of course, Larry F might be the classiest football player to wear an NFL uniform)