MHS831

I was not aware, but I was not saying that he cannot play RG--the point I probably did not make was that he can play in the wide zone scheme--they were treating him as if he is a power run blocking RG only, and it did not fit the scheme. My point was that he can pull--he did it a lot--as a LG, which is usually the most agile, mobile G. Thanks for the link and the thread.

Based only on what they said about Nixon, I see Nixon as a situational DT only. It was as if they said he cannot recognize the run and gets blown out. He needs to be shooting gaps---and frankly, DTs do not make that many tackles anyway--they simply clog lanes--so I will be anxious to see how he develops.

They made me feel really better about the first four picks. I think they love Horn, Terrace, (so do I) and Christensen at LT---they helped me see how he is a perfect fit there-I hope they are right. Tremble: They underestimated him, in my opinion, but value his blocking. No mention of special teams. I did not like the Chuba pick either. I am not as pumped about Nixon as before, but there is a difference between playing every down and being situational. Shi Smith just made our WR corps potentially the best in the NFL. "Darnold has no excuses." I did not like the Taylor CB pick when it happened, but I do now. They love him, along with DJ. Enough for me. They made good points and were spot on. I disagree about D.Brown, however. He was a LG at Bama and pulled and was able to move. As a RG, he should be fine.

I love this guy, and EJ was tolerable, but he needs to be less "Da Bears" and more focused on all teams. He talked too much as well, but I think he was squeezing the bottle a bit.

Gonna hold you to that. TY When I saw who replied, I knew this would be a good thread--some very good counterpoints being made.

he is a better fit--so I could see it.

It is possible that they go with 9 on the roster because they like versatility. I really like David Moore and think he was a steal as an UDFA--so I forced him on the roster. Did not think he'd last on the PS.

I probably did not stress this point enough. We run that wide zone blocking scheme and he might be a perfect fit for that--I just need to learn more about it---I think he would be a great G, but a good LT is greater than a great G, especially when you have a veteran or 2 at LG ready to play.

After the draft, I think it was Verge who asked the best question that remained: "So what do we have as an offensive line? (paraphrased)." I think it is a great question. We still do not have answers for everyone left of right tackle, but we do have depth and competition. Essentially, we are average across the front after Moton, but that is based on where we were and probably are--but it does not mean that is what we will be. So I do this for myself and not for the Huddle, but I do not mind sharing. Agree or disagree--there are many ways this could go and I am pretty sure it won't go as predicted here. I tried to analyze each player as objectively and as positively as possible. These are the 10 OL I think could make the final roster: Cam Erving: Has some LT experience, experience at G as well. Just does not come off as a LT1. At his salary, he is a steal if he starts and is average, but I really was hoping that he would be solid depth. Erving is smart, gives a lot of effort, but due to inexperience at any position, he is a bit behind. Built to be the utility infielder, it is best for the Panthers if that is the role he plays here. At his age, he is in his prime, so you are seeing his peak performance; he is what he is. I would say that he will give 100% and he will learn quickly. Is 100% enough? Not over the long haul. Still the favorite to be starting week 1, in my opinion. Erving has said he is most comfortable at LT, and this may be his best chance to win a job there. Trent Scott: Scott was probably slightly below average last season, taking about a third of the LT snaps. That is admirable for a backup, and we know he should improve in 2021 because he was new to the system in 2020. So I might go as far to say that he could reach average. If Erving is average and Scott can be average, I feel better about LT than I did before the draft. Having 2 LTs that are slightly below average to average is something you can live with IF you upgraded in other places. Do not underestimate the value of Tremble here—and maybe a newer, better LG beside him will help. I would give Scott a C- based on last year, with the upside of a C for 2021. Bradley Christensen: Since nobody asked me, I have been watching Christensen’s videos and reading a few reviews from respected analysts and have come to this conclusion: He can play LT with a few weak spots or he could be a star Left Guard. BC can handle the speed rushers and the benders; he can pull and reach the second level with ease. He is great on screens. Where he could run into trouble: Bull Rushers. He will struggle to keep the bigger, power rushers from plowing through his numbers. He has short arms and a tiny anchor. So if we can use Tremble to chip and offset that Bull rusher on longer plays from the pocket, he could be a serviceable LT. But these flaws are minimized if he moves to G, and his athleticism is put more on display. I think Rhule wants him to play G, honestly, because he sees it too. Rookie, so grade is based on week 1 potential---LT: C-, LG: B- Dennis Daley: The forgotten man except in the “ice up” room, sometimes injuries happen in flurries. You get one, it alters your technique and you get another. A pulled groin can lead to a strained knee and that can lead to a hip pointer, for example. Then everyone calls you “injury prone,” the NFL’s kiss of death. But Daley was drafted in 2019 with Greg Little, and as a sixth rounder, had some impressive outings. Like in college, he was a bit inconsistent at LT, and was learning LG to start there in 2020 when the injury bug hit. So we really do not know what we have in Daley; he could be our best LT, and he could be a versatile reserve as opposed to the injured reserve. No grade, but we really (if you do not include Little) have 4 possible LTs on the roster, and all seem to be about on the same level at this time. Daley is a LT, LG, and possibly the RT backup. Pat Elflien: I have watched Jets tape of Elf at G, and I have watched Vikings tape of Elf at C, where he won the Remington award as college football’s top C after being moved from G to C for his senior year at Ohio State. Probably a better pass blocker than run blocker, and I like him at C more than G, which is good news, considering Paradis’ age. He does not blow anyone off the ball in the run game, but he usually makes his block. He is very quick, and the more we pull him, the better off we will be. He has never played on a good OL, so we shall see how effective he can be. I see Elflien as the starting LG who will convert to C when Christensen becomes the LG or Paradis is benched. However, he may have a good relationship with Darnold, and the C/QB relationship is important. (Yes, I think Brady C’s destiny is LG—and I hope LT works out). Based on what I have seen on film, and this does not jive with PFF, I give him a C+ at LG with an upside of a B- if he plays C. Matt Paradis: Better in 2020 than in 2019 (recovering from a broken fibula), Paradis restructured his contract so he is going to be here at least one more year (2021) and should be the starting Center week 1. He was probably the OL’s second best performer in 2021 for those who played full schedules, but Miller could argue that he was the second best and win half the votes. Paradis brings experience, and as his leg got stronger, so did he. At 33, this is his last year, and his leadership and experience at C are probably needed. He is more of a finesse, zone blocker and can get bull rushed into the QB. I would give him a C with a potential upside of B-. John Miller: Miller surprisingly exceeded expectations last year, but probably graded out at the bottom of the average range for RG. He committed 6 penalties in 14 games (too high) and allowed too many sacks and hits on the qb—but was solid in the run game. He should improve in his second year with OL coach Pat Meyer, but there is a sixth round rookie at RG now who also wants to eat. The competition will be fierce, and Miller is on a 1-year contract, so he knows they might be grooming D. Brown to take over. Miller will start there week 1, and he will fight to keep his job or build his resume. I give Miller a C- with the chance for a C+ with the extra motivation. Deonte Brown: Is interesting because he is an enigma. He is built like a road-grading people mover, but he played LG at Bama and he played like a LG, and that position is probably more aligned with his college tape. He is a smart blocker, almost a zone blocker at times, and rarely uses his 345 lbs to pave a path over the defender. I think that will change when and if he is moved to RG, but the upside is this—in pass protection, he does not get bull rushed and he is able to adjust and pick up stunts and blitzes better than most men his size. He is not there yet, but I think coach Meyer can make this guy into a star. I would have given him (at 347 lbs) a late third round grade, fwiw. I think at 335 and with some technique development, he will be our starting RG soon. David Moore: Normally I would not include an UDFA before the first practice in July, but since we are high on Moore, I think I will. Moore is a bit short, but he is hard to move. Rhule played him some at center at Senior Bowl practices, and frankly, the drills in this video are impressive. He is raw, but I think he could make the roster; I think if you put him on the PS, someone would pick him up. For now, he is a third C, a third LG, and a third RG, but that is subject to change. Here is a brief clip of Moore at the SR bowl—note the fact that he is not intimidated and how he stalemates the rush. He gets beat on one rush, but recovers fairly well to minimize possible damage. https://youtu.be/kh6ewsdqQMk So if you ask me, I would predict that the Week 1 lineup looks like this: LEFT TACKLE (C) LEFT GUARD (C+) CENTER (C-) RIGHT GUARD (C) RIGHT TACKLE (A) Cam Erving Pat Elflien Matt Paradis John Miller Taylor Moton Trent Scott Dennis Daley (Elflien) Deonte Brown (Scott) Brad Christensen (Christensen) David Moore But at some point during the season, I expect the OL to transform—it could look like this by then end: LEFT TACKLE (C) LEFT GUARD (B-) CENTER (B-) RIGHT GUARD (B-) RIGHT TACKLE (A) Cam Erving Brad Christensen Pat Elflien Deonte Brown Taylor Moton Trent Scott Dennis Daley Matt Paradis John Miller (Scott) (Daley) (Moore) David Moore (Moore) (Daley) Green--rookies Red--probably not going to be here next year

I looked up the house. This may not be the good sign we thought it was.

I have not checked, but he seems to have been injured a lot lately---I would guess Indy if I were a betting man, a WR to give Wentz a better target--they have $22m in cap room too.

In fairness, he is compared to adam sandler a lot--most of gatorade gets to its destination with minimal spillage.

I had to emotionally adjust when we took Horn and not Slater, and I was also shocked that we did not trade back--possibly taking Slater or Darrisaw with Fields on the board. However, I can say this with some degree of confidence-would we be talking about CB now if we had not taken one of the 2 true elite CBs. I mentioned before the draft (rather reluctantly, I might add) that I felt we HAD to take a shut down, press CB based on the data (71% completion rate outside the numbers, 31st in the league in getting off the field on third down, etc.) We had Scott and Erving on the roster, so it really seemed to me that we were targeting Surtain or Horn (I thought Surtain, to be honest).

He sure does. This could be a poor man's version of Hill or it could become a trend. I mean, Stevens was no slouch in college-he was decent, but a 6-5, 235 lb man with a 4.49 40 who can complete 60% of his passes (college) and run the football from the wildcat, etc. is not a bad change of pace / #3 option. Better than Grier going out in the third quarter to help distribute Gatorade.

Webb is a great example. There is no reason we can't find an athletic #3 who can help in other ways--like finding a roster spot. And to the argument (not your argument) that it is taking a role or position from someone else, you still have 53 football players.

We keep saying, "Brady likes him" but I am not sure that is a ringing endorsement after TB. I wonder how much tinkering Brady did with Hill in NO to make this happen, and if he wants to continue that project. I get what people are saying, but I have always wondered why a #3 QB takes a roster spot. My ideas have been to keep your #3 on the PS, use Bonnefon, and now this--probably the best of the three options. And I agree--the #2 QB is the spot we need to build, so maybe we shall see. We could keep a QB (probably will) on the PS as well.

I don't think Hill has that much talent.

I have been on work release for a month (not Covid) and I am medicated---recipe for some constructive gunslinging.

I think we copied your bet---I am going to need a few more cases of hair gel.

Good thread OP

Yes. vs the Rams at St Louis where they had won 14 straight. We were big underdogs--had to play all games on the road that year to get to SB 38... Unreal

What evidence was there of Taysom Hill doing this before leaving BYU? He was at Green Bay--cut. So he found a way to stay in the league by using substandard QB skills for the NFL and his speed to create a "position" with the Saints. And you are saying Stevens can't do that. As a QB, he would not be in the league right now. He is in the league because he is an athlete who plays QB. In this role, you do not need a 70% passer--you need a multiple threat.

What is being described is not a position--it is a wrinkle. A different look. Something to make the defenses prepare for all week. A chance to create mismatches. What does Grier do?

I am really not trying to mock anyone, just bring good points to the table. I try to have an open mind and love it when someone changes it--but you gotta have a case. "Derp?" Do better.

My support is the athleticism, his skill set, and the scheme I have seen before. I am saying that he is a #3 QB that can provide a unique wrinkle to the offense. Taysom Hill is my evidence. They did not pay him $12m to be a derp. I have provided matchup scenarios, provided his size/speed/skill set, and I have shown the relationship he has with Brady. Tommy is fast straight line--yes. He is. We are not talking about a starter here--we are talking about re-imagining the #3 QB position. That is the part you are missing--well, one of them. You have shown, "Derp Taysom Hill Derp." You almost pinned me there.