MHS831

If you take away the size issue (and that is a significant issue) then Bryce Young is (in my opinion) the best QB in the draft. He can improvise, throw WRs open, and he is very intelligent. Stroud is not far behind if behind at all. The other two? Risky as hell.

Personally, I think everyone is right--just on different sides of the same coin. It is a huge gamble and it is not always the best move. Desperate men do desperate things--just watch them at any bar after last call. We probably fit into the desperate category at worst, the urgent category at best. I have read an article about former GM Rick Spielman who compares these top QBs to known commodities. He compares Young to Mahomes-- I see the Mahomes comparison. Spielman said.\, "He does a great job for a small quarterback with his vision down the field. His anticipation and the way he throws the ball and he throws receivers open." Young is very smart and analytical--and I wonder if he is not headed for a stellar career based on his football acumen and willingness to prepare. His size is his only concern. AR-15 is a Cam Newton clone-with more athleticism and maybe even a better arm. However, Spielman points out, "Both possess rare size and athleticism. Have great running ability as well. However, Newton won a lot more games in college, and was much more consistent." Do we have the coaches to develop him? Who does? The article compares Stroud to Jared Goff, which may seem like a negative if you think they will have identical careers. "Both prospects were accurate, and possess the necessary arm talent to make all of the throws." Levis is the college version of Josh Allen. "Big, strong-armed kids with athletic ability, but have questionable touch and accuracy. Spielman noted that he's comparing Levis to Allen coming out, not the superstar Allen has developed into. If this were my perspective, I would trade everything I could with the Bears to get Young. But I understand the GMs are about as divided over this crop of top QBs than ever. Me? I would give a lot of thought into trading back, drafting a TE and WR, and drafting Herndon Hooker. Is he an example of "out of sight, out of mind?" I need to know more about him, but his numbers were second to none--and maybe he did not read much-that is what they said about Cam.

Hi Verge! Thanks for posting. I imagine the Panthers would have to decide that they will take at least one of three QBs if they move to #3, where #1 would mean they are in love with one player. So it seems to me that the panthers would have to give up a big time player if they moved up--someone like Derrick Brown if they wanted to get the Bear's attention. I think the Bears need WR, OL, and DL... It seems that the Colts will move up to #1, the Panthers to #3--competing with the Raiders, Falcons, possibly the Seahawks--so the question is (and I don't think you have heard much as of this date): Who are the colts and Texans in love with? What do you know about Hooker? Are 4 QBs going in the top 8 picks (opinion)? toodles

So I looked into this more, and I was 100% right when I said I might be wrong. Seems like a good guy and was popular with his teammates.

No worries.

I told you it was a vibe--I also said I could be wrong--he seemed disingenuous to me. Do not need your confirmation. Move on.

There is some top notched detective work going on in this thread..>Good stuff!

I see the math behind that and I think that is what I might do--but I see a few problems that may be only in my head or may not be deal breakers. 1. Fitterer said, if your guy is there, you go get him, but you better be sure about it. (paraphrased) Does that apply to all three of the QBs you mentioned? If so, yes, trade with the Cardinals and take AR-15 (likely). But if you love Stroud and Young, you have to move to #1. We know the Bears are going to trade out, and Stroud or Young is likely the target. (My guess? Indy). The Texans will take the other one, leaving AR-15 as the only QB on the board. 2. Do you think Reich and McCown have the experience, knowledge, and skill sets to coach a player like AR-15? I don't know--I would think they would be more comfortable with Young and then Stroud.

I should have been clear--they showed 2 other QBs (3 total) getting gunned at the combine--one was 61, another 60, and Levis was at 59. Secondly, please don't try to apply your standards for evaluating character and acceptable behavior to others. It is an arrogant and self-centered habit. I would not expect someone who can't reflect on his own behavior as one who is qualified to objectively assess others. I simply shared the vibe I got---and it was stated accordingly--Of course he was playing for the cameras--I go by the way others near him react to him--that is a tell--sometimes what is not said is more important that what is said. It is called, "reading the room," and sometimes you are right, and others you are wrong. If you got a different vibe, good for you.

Absolutely, and I think the offseason moves so far--beginning when they fired Rhule--reflect a lack of patience on Tepper's part--and I think the Rhule experiment embarrassed him because he was impulsive and stupid about it. No QB in the South right now gives any team an advantage--Personally, I think this is a great time to strike. Fitterer will be building around the Russell Wilson rookie contract that led to a dynasty theory--and in the day of paying QBs $50m per, he may be right. But you are right--they are not building right now, they are going to get a young QB, sign a vet for a season--and they are going after it now.

We have seen an offseason where Tepper opened his checkbook to bring in the best coaching staff in the NFL. Name another good QB in the NFC South? The time is now. Not only will we land the best QB in this draft, we keep our rivals from getting him as well. Atlanta picks before us. Do we really think Fitterer is going to be frugal or conservative? A: A big ol' bowl of NOPE.

Or we discover that the hype was just that--that players like Howell and Rattler were not first round locks after another season (or two) of college football--after we passed on a chance to get a QB.

You bring up a good point (unstated) and this is a good thread--I think they will give up the three firsts if that is what it takes. All factors point to "NOW" from front office, and Stroud can start very soon. We should have some room in free agency next year, so the loss of a first rounder is not that huge. 1. Young, Stroud, Levis, and Herndon are the "types" of QBs that Reich and McCown can relate to--not sure if they can coach up AR-15. For that reason alone, he may be off the table unless they do not move up and he is there at #9--that probably is not happening. 2. Young is a bit small, and without the Bama advantages, I am not sure he is any better at throwing than Stroud. 3. Stroud has the size and the ball placement to be more durable and just as effective as Young. To me, he gets the nod. 4. Levis' cannon was about average when put on the radar gun. Maybe the rest of him is overrated too. Not a fan. 5. Hooker is intriguing. I watched a lot of his videos, and he really does not scan the field that often. However, his measurables (size, hand size, etc) are pretty solid. Personally, as of right now from this perspective, I rate the QBs in terms of who I think this staff and GN will like: 1. Stroud A+ This is the type of QB who can start by mid season, if not sooner. I really like him--just needs to be protected. He throws a pretty ball that arrives on time at the right location--like Fed Ex. 2. Young A- His size is his only concern--and he is less mobile than Stroud as a runner (think RPOs, options, etc). 3. Richardson B+ (not AR-15's fault--just we are not set up to coach his style of play. Not ready to play much in 2023, and if you play him to early, you could ruin him) 4. Levis B- (Seems like a dick to me--but he has the skills, just not the resume. Could play sooner than AR-15, just not as well when he does) 5. Hooker C+ (Age and injury a slight concern, but not major. Not ready to play in 2023. Too many unknowns, but he could be ranked ahead of Levis if healthy to be evaluated now)

But he was not comparing the QB classes--he was making a statement about the immediate player inflation that goes along with fans' ratings following the combine. I see the point, and I agree that this year is very different.

I don't think he was--I think he was illustrating a point that shows how, immediately after combines and pro days--the QBs are inflated and everyone has them ranked higher than they should. I saw mocks last year that had 3-4 QBs going in the first round.

I see the Colts, Raiders, and Panthers as the key candidates to trade up--with 3 suitors, the Bears and Cardinals are in really good spots.

Are Reich and Mcown the right combo to develop a QB like AR-15 or are they likely to be better with Stroud or Young--or even Levis or Hooker?

Here is me: Plan A: If you really love Stroud, trade what it takes to get him with the Bears. In my opinion, we need a QB more than picks. When you consider that some picks bust (about half of first rounders) it is worth the risk to escape mediocrity or worse. We did not put this coaching staff together to not have an elite QB to develop. I think we are going to go all in. Plan B: Assuming you don't love Stroud or Young, Sit at #9 and take AR (if there) or Levis (if there). (not sure I would take Levis at #9 though). If they are gone, go to plan C. Plan c - trade back in round 1 and acquire another second rounder or better yet, a 2024 first rounder. Draft Hooker in the late part of round 1 to assure that you get him.

And there is a good chance both will be gone by #3

There is also news that Hooker will be ready at the beginning of the season--he would not be playing, but it is noteworthy that you are not losing a year as thought before.

The problem with QBs that are amazing athletes in terms of size, speed, athleticism, etc is that they have always been so--able to use their legs to bail out the QB when going through the progressions. This can cause the QB's brain to go into escape mode, knowing that he has the ability to turn a potential sack into a big gain--been doing it his entire life--much like Cam. But when the brain starts thinking run, the feet go into run mode, and then the eyes see an open receiver, and the arm goes into throw mode when the feet are in run mode--leaving the feet in bad position to be throwing a football accurately. So there is some compromise (usually with accuracy) with running QBs. Is that the case with AR? Probably, but I have not seen enough of his tape when throwing incomplete passes to watch his feet---all I have seen are the highlight reels. Yes, he was impressive at the combine, but there were some hints of accuracy issues when he was not under pressure at all, in tee shirts and shorts. Like Cam, Lamar Jackson, and others with less success, you sacrifice when you draft a running QB--career lengths are closer to a running back than a traditional QB, accuracy, and these QBs play with injury a lot. Just my sobering analysis.

When they showed the graphic of the most athletic QBs, it was not an impressive list of NFL QBs. We have to be very careful of falling in love with these "workout warriors," but I must admit, I would be elated if we drafted him--but I like the Stroud game and he is still my preference.

But if we had good TEs, would we have thrown it more?

Getting Stroud if it costs you a first next year is worth it to me if he is your guy. Imean, giving 2 first rounders and a second is not that much for a franchise QB. Don't forget--we should have a lot of cap room next year, so the loss of a first rounder can be absorbed in free agency. If we feel that either of three is OK, then that contradicts their philosophy on moving up. I think their board is: Stroud Richardson Young Herndon

Adam Thielen on NFL Network Combine coverage said he thought Aaron would probably retire.