MHS831

I can imagine how nervous the centers in the NFC South are right now--bet they are going to get the helmet eye protectors installed. I mean, you would too if you were going up against a nose tackle names penis in i (eye). OK--back to maturity. jokes over.

His PFF score in 2021 was 56 or so--I think we need a NT, so he will have a chance. I worry that his heart was not in it, which is why he retired at 24. However, sometimes you need a year to reflect and contemplate. I would say he has the potential to be a rotational guy at best-- Update--if he was playing injured, that explains it--could be a diamond in the rough.

I would not want those to be the first five letters of my last name because sometimes teammates shorten your last name as a nickname. Like Gronk, for example.

Didn't Jimmy C have #2 and Cam wanted it? AWKWARD!!! I do not blame Jimmy for not giving it up--regardless of who was going to start. Just a pride thing.

the article does say that the more a skill player runs etc. the more likely he is to be injured. In this case, Young was not performing as a QB, he was running and he fell wrong--probably because he is not a RB and does not know how to "drop and roll". Extending the play put him in an awkward position. As a Panther, I would limit his running and teach him to slide. If he ran all the time like a rb, it is probable that he would never have extended his right arm to break the fall like that--his own weight caused the injury--by the way, not some 300 lb DL.

I started this thread because I think it is central to what we should be discussing in relation to our concerns. I am seeing good stuff from both sides--I blame Bryce Young's parents for this.

Sorta illustrates the point. Is this good news (he is resilient and overcomes them easily or that he is good at reacting in a way to minimize the extent of the injury?) It is a concern. Actually, Stroud had some shoulder concerns (more serious) as well: Stroud's Shoulder injury https://www.cleveland.com/buckeye-talk-podcast/2021/11/ohio-state-footballs-cj-stroud-reveals-the-severity-of-his-right-shoulder-injury-to-start-the-season.html AR Shoulder Injury Here is one about Richardson, albeit his left shoulder--but it also mentions hamstrings, etc. which supports the assumption based on the research that running QBs are more susceptible to injury: https://www.on3.com/college/florida-gators/news/injured-anthony-richardson-update-hamstring-neck-shoulder-florida-tennessee-rivalry/ Levis' Shoulder Injury And there is this, about Levis: "Kentucky QB Will Levis plans extensive treatment during Wildcats’ bye week-- UK QB Will Levis knows he needs extra time in the training room during the Wildcats' bye week after foot and shoulder injuries." Read more at: https://www.kentucky.com/sports/college/kentucky-sports/uk-football/article267379242.html#storylink=cpy And not the injury we associate with Hendon Hooker, but he too suffered from a shoulder injury: Hendon Hooker suffers apparent shoulder injury late in first half Keith Farner | 7 months ago "Hendon Hooker suffered an apparent right shoulder injury late in the first half against Florida as the Tennessee quarterback struggled early on." IT HAPPENS to ALL QBs.

Perhaps the best measure of a coaching staff is their ability to prepare the bottom of the roster to challenge for a role as soon as possible. I really liked the approach on day 3 last year--get the best athletes or the player with the most versatility. Smith, Barno, and Mays were awesome choices.

I get the feeling that Barno and Brandon Smith will benefit from the coaching as much as the new defensive alignment. Good point. I also like McCall, but I would not play him more than 25 snaps or so per game. I have never been a fan of Roy--but I am biased against anyone who is here because Rhule coached him. Do I see Tuttle stepping in as a NT? Not really. Brown would make more sense, especially in goal line situations.

We can talk about physics and science and it makes sense, but what applies to Young applies to all. Most NFL injuries are to joints, and the primary injury to QBs is a shoulder injury. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5825334/ While Bryce Young in a head on collusion with Aaron Donald is likely to lose miserably, the padding and protection is likely to prevent a long-term injury. Worst case scenario? A concussion. Best case? Wind knocked out. Most injuries occur when the player is going through a range of motion, such as a RB cutting back (knee) or a QB getting hit while throwing (shoulder). So in that situation, does the size of the person applying the impact matter? You are all right--Bryce vs. Donald = a Donald victory and possible KO for the QB--maybe a few rib issues. But in the performance of QB duties and the motion it takes to play the position, is he more vulnerable than anyone else?

I think of Bryce this way---remember Luke Kuechly. He was a very good athlete (surprising people at the combine) but others were similar to him. He was 6-3, 235---not huge for a 4-3 MLB by any means. Other great athletes of similar size were drafted in 2012 but he and Bobby Wagner became the best. They were/are both very intelligent players, and MLB is the QB of the defense--that is how important Luke was to us--Bobby was/is to Seattle. My Point? While Bryce Young is very small for an NFL QB, the thing that sets him apart is his ability to process and see the field better than the rest. That makes him more capable of making everyone around him better. Is that worth the risk of taking a 5-10, 200 lb QB? That is the decision that must be made, but I want my leaders--on offense and defense--to be very smart. Nothing against Stroud or Richardson or Levis or Herndon--but the special QBs in NFL history, for the most part, were the smartest players on the field. Manning, Brady, Montana, Mahomes, etc.

Good question OP---I think Burns, Shaq, Brown, Chinn, Barno, Roy/McCall and Luvu. Here is how I see each benefiting: Those of you who think that Luvu is going to play OLB, insert the other ILB of your choice instead of Luvu. ILB--Luvu and Shaq: ILBs have pretty simple reads, allowing them to play faster. "If you have a 3 technique called to your side, you line up in a 30 and have A gap responsibility. If you have a 5 or a 7 technique called to your side, you line up in a 30 and have B gap.That’s it. Pretty simple." ILBs read through the G, basically telling them where the play is going. Base/Zone block Reach block Pull Play side Pull back side Down block Scoop block Veer (type) Block (I am not sure I have seen this in the NFL) The ILBs will win or lose in the film room. Some NFL teams use their Guards as "decoys" at times, especially in the RPO systems. Nonetheless, I see both LBs benefiting from the 3-4 because it requires less range and less thinking--make your read and go. I never liked Shaq as an OLB or ILB in a 4-3--always seemed like a tweener to me. NT--Roy and McCall: In the world of DTs, you are asking a lot from 340 lb former college NTs to play a 3 technique because they often lack the assets needed to succeed there. Instead, the NT is basically a beast who occupies the center and stuffs both A gaps. I am not sure if Roy and McCall can do this on the NFL level, but the likelihood for them to improve in this setting compared to what they were asked to do last year is there. A good NT can draw a double team, something the ILBs will love. OLB--Burns and Barno: I could add Haynes to this list, but I want to focus on the 2 who will benefit the most. Barno had to be celebrating the most, because he was a misfit in the 4-3 alignments. If he can learn to bend like Burns, I could see him as a powerful third (rotational) Edge at some point this year. At times, these players need to run with slots or TEs, so his speed will be much more of an asset. Burns, on the other hand, just got more difficult to block, imo, because the DEs are solid and will require attention (imagine Brown and Burns on the same side). I expect Burns to have a 12-14 sack season if he is not used in coverage a lot. DE--Brown: Brown has the athleticism to dominate as a 3-4 DE because he can beat both a G and an OT with equal levels of success. He will require double teams or RB attention in the passing game, freeing people like Burns to face 1-1 situations. He can rush the passer if and when needed, and he can draw a double team and anchor. At 330 lbs he is huge for a DE, but he carries it well. ???--Chinn: When Shaq renegotiated his contract and remained a Panther, nobody celebrated more than Chinn. I think Evero will be very creative with Chinn, and we will see the most improvement out of him vs 2022 than any other player. I think they will play him at "big nickel" SS, and at either LB spot, depending on situation. He will have autonomy. His intelligence and physical gifts will be maximized, unlike 2022. Chinn will dominate in 2023 but I have no idea where--just don't put him on the DL. I would also like to add this: I have thought YGM was the odd man out, but do not forget, the Panthers can use him to convert to a 4-3, making his fairly valuable in some situations. So maybe he will have a role--just not as a starter.

I think this article (or another article) stated that the number one injury to QBs is shoulder, fwiw.

Supposedly a high character guy--somewhat of a sleeper in a deep edge class--I really like him. Long arms, 4.55 40 time, 6-3, 255--good size.

Hypothetically, you have been sentenced to prison....

I want an edge and a WR---If we get QB, edge and WR---Happy camper.

Here is the pressure chart I referenced:

I can literally say that I think either would be great--and I would understand the decision when made. I think we can win with either qb--and I do not pretend to know enough about both to have my mind made up. If we take Young, you bet your arse I am going to make sure my OL is elite and that he processes more quickly in a spread offense that features getting rid of the ball. I recently posted a stat from his college playing career that said he gets rid of the ball 0.2 seconds faster than the average. The average QB in the NFL gets rid of the ball about 2.5-2.7 seconds. (Ironically, Mahommes, Mayfield, Jones, Allen, and Jackson took the longest time to throw--around 3 seconds). The report basically said that a QB who throws the ball at 2.5 seconds has about a 15% chance of being pressured. If the QB takes 3 seconds, the likelihood for pressure increases to nearly 40%. (in 2019 according to PFF, Newton was holding the ball 2.9 seconds and his average time to throw before pressure was at 2.56 seconds--0.3 tenths less than Josh Allen in Buffalo.) If the QB takes 4 seconds and has not thrown the ball, pressure is likely 55% of the time. On average, the article says that QBs face pressure 35% of the time. So here is the rub. Bryce is better throwing under pressure than Stroud. He is smaller, so there is more incentive to get the ball out more quickly, something he naturally does. Stroud has a quick release and is accurate, so there is no reason to think that his success throwing from a clean pocket is not related to his decision-making. So do you risk injury (as some think) with the smaller qb who is better under pressure, or do you go with the bigger QB who is not as effective under pressure?

Make it happen, Fitterer.

It is closer than before--nice idea, OP. We need one of these each week for the next few weeks. Who the hell voted for Levis? I want a name. We need to expose this person. No reason, just to chat about our differences of opinion.

According to the chart, you are looking at one of the least injured positions in football. Take a smallish QB with a quick processor (to me) is less dangerous than a big QB who processes more slowly and dances around in the pocket trying to extend plays or running out of the pocket. I used to cringe when I saw Cam take his drop, plant his back foot, and then hold the ball. That, and running the ball like Bronco Nagurski ended Cam's career, and he was 6-5, 245. Found a pic of Bronco so people not named Scot will understand the humor.

You mean the NFL executives who have a 56% success rate drafting the first overall pick? I think everyone wants that 6-4 QB who can scan the field, but in relation to injury, they could be basing a decision on a myth. Maybe they have not looked at data? Maybe they simply assumed and based their opinions on a false assumption. There will be people who criticize the data without supportive data for their opinions, basing an opinion on "common sense." Like people who refuse to look at the overwhelming psychological and emotional data on the long term impacts of spanking-dismissing it as nonsense without any evidence that demonstrates it is effective without potential long-term cognitive and behavioral consequences. People are close-minded in general, and that is a form of ignorance. Just an example of human nature.

If nothing else, this article should cause people to second-guess their theories based on Young's size when the variables that matter are related to how he will be used/play. Cam Newton, according to that thinking, should never have been injured and should have had a long career--enter Ron Rivera and Marty Hurney....

Right--but if the size is not as significant at the football intelligence, processing, release time, etc, then why would size be a factor when it can be so easily overcome with other variables? One article claimed that the tissue around the joints for larger athletes is under more stress ans subject to injury as a result. If the NFL rules protecting QBs are upheld and Bryce understands that he must make plays without attempting to extend them, he could be effective as a "point guard" as the team has often said. There could be data supporting the opposite, but until I see it, I will consider this--I was actually shocked when I read these results.