MHS831

It is--and we did not seem to have that concern when Cam was plowing over LBs on third and 8 for a first down-(I did, but I was called a racist and Cam Hater). I worry too--dang if they put his brain in AR15's body--I would know which QB I want.

You make solid points and argue well, and we are usually on the same page--I prefer Stroud optically, but mentally, I prefer Young--very torn. But I would not be concerned about Stroud's football IQ if he were not compared to a little Einstein.

Fool me once, shame on you----by the way, how much more humiliating could my profile pic be?

When you are small and playing in the biggest, most prestigious program in modern college football, you are aware of it. Here is why I don't think Young will be as injury prone as we all think. Bryce processes very quickly--the average QB in the NFL gets rid of the ball in 2.4-2.7 seconds. In college, Young's throws were 0.2 second quicker than average. Furthermore, 87% of his passes were catchable. (Stroud, known for his accuracy, boasts that 85% of his passes were catchable.) He rates a 7/7 in the areas of "poise" and "clutch" (Stroud was a 6/7 in both categories) and, according to Greg Cosell, "Young is a high-level prospect with a PhD in the nuances, details and subtleties of the position, starting with his pre-snap process and an outstanding feel for the game, intuitively understanding where everyone is on the field and often moving to find space to deliver the ball and make spectacular second reaction plays." He is tough and smart in the pocket. While his size is a legitimate concern, Young's intelligence, fast release, movement in the pocket, and the NFL rules that protect QBs might make his size concerns minimal. Furthermore, he runs a 4.52 40, so he has a degree of escapability. Cam Newton seemed like a tank with a cannon for an arm running down the field, but his size and hesitation in the pocket proved to be his downfall---he was injured based on the wear and tear---so a big QB getting hit a lot might be more dangerous than a small QB getting hit once in a while. I am glad this decision is not mine. Young: https://www.the33rdteam.com/nfl-draft/2023/players/bryce-young-49632/ Stroud: https://www.the33rdteam.com/nfl-draft/2023/players/c-j-stroud-49609/overview/ Based on these comparisons, Young is slightly better than Stroud in the areas they chose to measure. Is it enough? therin lies the dilemma.

I am seeing no indication that we are trading this pick--they will have a favorite by April 27 and they will not risk it. Just my opinion.

Funny they use the Lance / Jones comparison--not a good one at all. First, SF could have wanted Lance all along--but did not want Wilson--so they leaked they would take Jones, causing everyone to relax and not trade with NYJ for Lance--who knows? And if you think a team is willing to trade all that draft capital to move up for Lance, maybe it causes you to rethink Lance---nobody was taking Jones at #2.... Lots of strategery going on.

Yeah. We need a 6-5, 245 lb. QB---they never get hurt! (Playful sarcasm--I see your point)

Yeah, you are looking for the QB who steps up in the pros, not back or down. Jared Allen is a great example--Jalen Hurts to a degree---Stroud has that ability--probably more than Young.

I think CJ is more of a boom or bust project than Young--higher ceiling, lower floor. I see CJ somewhere between Burrow and Goff--if you take Goff's entire career. Burrow may be a bit much, but if he has the tools, I think he could be special--or not. hard to say--good question!

I can see that, but he put up some incredible numbers and was very accurate. Pickett was a bad selection because (I agree-a backup) but when you go with a first round QB, you have to give him a few years to develop as the starter-where I think you have a quicker trigger without the initial investment. I am shocked Tomlin won 9 games this past season---

Stroud's defense folded on him vs. Michigan, but the offense scored only 3 points in the second half when they were leading at the half. I thought Harbaugh bitch slapped Day in the coaches duel, and Stroud was missing his best 2 WRs, if memory serves me correctly. But when he because one-dimensional, Michigan took his number..... With Young, he is predicted to go to the Texans. In 2022, his two worst games (in terms of offensive scoring) were against Texas teams (Texas, 20 points, and Texas AM, 24 points--games they won by a combined 5 points).

As a rookie, I thought Jones was going to do well. I think BB is not the QB whisperer he thought he was.

I give Alabama the nostalgic advantage--Namath, Stabler, Starr, Todd, etc.---OSU does not even have a name to drop from last century! and I think Tua and Jones are better than what OSU has put on the field so far---but not by much. The greatest OSU QBever by far was benched and transferred to LSU. I don't really think this matters much--you have to look at each player--but OSU's lack of success in the NFL is very interesting to me. (I know a guy who roomed with Art Schleister (sp) for a bit in Indianapolis when both were rookies. He had some stories--not related to the topic, really.)

I see that--I wish I knew more about it. In my head, I am pulling for Stroud to "break the mold" and step up while I am in awe of Young's maturity and acumen.

What influenced me to go against my bias and select YOUNG? Reich will be calling the plays during the game. With the most intelligent QB to come out in years, he will be communicating--during the game--on a more sophisticated level. When I heard that Reich was "blown away" by Young's intelligence--I immediately went there in my mind. A cerebral coach with an NFL QB background would LOVE a cerebral QB on the field. If the OC were calling plays during the game, this would matter less to me--but when the HC/former QB is calling plays, he will value that in-game communication more than we probably realize.

Gives us something to do in the offseason--many people collectively making solid points for both QBs. I think it is fun--builds suspense.

Devil's advocate--If the two were equal in size, who is the better QB? Justin Fields is the best NFL QB to ever come out of Ohio State--he is completing below 60% of his passes and has 24 TDs and 21 Ints. Before him? A long line of busts who were solid at Ohio State. Name a QB who has had better WRs than Stroud? Is the Big 10 an easier conference than the SEC in terms of passing attack? In other words, is Stroud really that good, or is he fool's gold--another product of the system? Who is better throwing under pressure (Stroud or Young)? Don't get caught up in the visible measurables--there is a lot you cannot see. Pro Days and Combines simply shows what the body can do--it does not measure the mind/intelligence of the QB. That is what the Panthers are doing, but to assume that Stroud will break the OSU curse or that Young will be oft injured because he is small is bias. So--who do I want? Stroud--if he can process nearly as effectively as Young. Young, if he can process as quickly as I think he can--because nobody is his equal in that area, and that is the most important quality of any NFL QB. Sure--many may disagree--but the mind test is the most important comparison, imo.

I want Stroud as I mentioned, but I see Young in the cards for some reason. And, by the way, this mock draft is 100% accurate--it is exactly how this thing is going down.

You know, I do not mind a solid, impersonal debate to share views. However, some of you attack the person when they put their necks out there to demonstrate their views at the time. It seems that the people who never promote an original idea are the first to attack. This is not referring to one person or instance, but in general. No offense to Verge, but it takes some balls to share speculative theories based on whispers and innuendos, but some of you concrete operational literalists cannot handle any views that oppose your own. Sad. But to go back and post things that were shared in a speculative forum from last year to attempt to discredit someone is beyond pathetic. Stick your neck out--let's see those jelly beans you call balls doing something other than criticizing others behind a fake name on an internet forum. And I am not upset--this is just an observation after having read this thread. If you think your remarkable vision of the past is impressive and that your insult slinging is self-promoting, you need to ask others how it really makes you look. You will not like the honest responses. Again, not upset, angry, or anything other than a bit disgusted by the cowardice and cyber bullying that seems to be the MO of some Huddlers.

Hello fans, I thought I would get my needs lists out and do a mock based on best player available, need, and rumor (and I am out of the loop). It all starts with the Panthers selecting Bryce Young. There is a new era of QB in the NFL, but you still need a guy who is intelligent beyond his years--this matters for a rookie who will be expected to start day 1. I think the need for a 6-4 QB is still real, but in the grand scheme of things, a player who can lead, who can read (defenses), and who can feed (distribute the ball to players when they need it)--seems to be a player who can make everyone better. I am leaning Stroud, to be honest, but this is what I think the Panthers will do. A coach on the field is a valuable asset, and with a young QB coach and OC without play calling responsibilities, I see the marriage. To appreciate Young, you have to imagine the film room, practice, and meetings with position players. This is not to say that Stroud cannot be these things, but it is questionable how he will do without a prestine pocket and the best WRs in College football history to throw to--I mean, both of this tackles will also be first or second round picks. Not to say Bama was not ideal for a QB, but they experienced a bit of a dip at WR and maybe even RB. A nearly impossible call to make from my perspective, so I am going to guess what the Panthers will do based on what they KNOW. Yes, his size is a concern, but the new NFL rules that protect the QB and his excellent vision are second to none-he is elusive and smart with his body. 50% sure this is the pick. Let me know what you think without getting into the Stroud/Young debate again. I know both sides, lean Stroud, but think they will admire the brain of Young too much to pass up. 1. RD 1 Panthers Bryce Young, QB, Alabama 2. Texans CJ Stroud, QB, Ohio State 3. Titans (predicted trade) Anthony Richardson, QB, Florida 4. Colts Will Levis, QB, Kentucky 5. Seahawks Will Anderson, Edge, Alabama 6. Lions Jalen Carter, DL, Georgia 7. Raiders Peter Skoronski, OT, Northwestern 8. Falcons Tyree Wilson, Edge, Texas Tech 9. Bears Lukas Van Ness, Edge/DL, Iowa 10. Eagles Jaxon Smith-Njigba, WR, Ohio State 11. Cardinals Nolan Smith, Edge, Georgia 12. Texans Quentin Johnson, WR, TCU 13. Jets Parris Johnson, OT, Ohio State 14. Patriots Broderick Jones, OT, Georgia 15. Packers Michael Mayer, TE, Notre Dame 16. Commanders Christian Gonzalez, CB, Oregon 17. Steelers Joey Porter, CB, Penn State 18. Lions Devin Witherspoon, CB, Illinois 19. Buccaneers Darnell Wright, OT, Tennessee 20. Seahawks Jordan Addison, WR, Southern California 21. Chargers Bijan Robinson, RB, Texas 22. Ravens O’Cyrus Torrence, IOL, Florida 23. Vikings Deonte Banks, CB, Maryland 24. Jaguars Cam Smith, CB, South Carolina 25. Giants Zay Flowers, WR, Boston College 26. Cowboys Dalton Kinkaid, TE, Utah 27. Bills Mazi Smith, DL, Michigan 28. Bengals Brian Branch, S, Alabama 29. Saints Hendon Hooker, QB, Tennessee 30. Eagles Kalijah Kancey, DL, Pittsburgh 31. Chiefs Will McDonald IV, Edge, Iowa State 32. RD 2 Steelers Anton Harrison, OT, Oklahoma 33. Texans Drew Sanders, LB, Arkansas 34. Cardinals Bryan Bresee, DT, Clemson 35. Colts Jalin Hyatt, WR, Tennessee 36. Rams Adetomiwa Adebawore, Edge, Northwestern 37. Seahawks Jack Campbell, LB, Iowa 38. Raiders John Michael Schmitz, C, Minnesota 39. Panthers Darnell Washington, TE, Georgia (The best player available and a long-term answer at TE. Still raw. I know this bothers some who think we are fine at CB, my next selection would have been fellow Bulldog Kelee Ringo, CB. Panthers may trade back into the round to get an additional third and an edge rusher)

A lot has to do with who plays where, how often are we in "Big nickel"--no, I am not happy with Henderson, Taylor, etc. And the 2 starters we have are rarely healthy. On paper, I agree, unless that paper is the medical report.

OK, Devil's Advocate time: Name a coach in the NFL that does not have an established relationship with QBs of prototypical size? Most QBs are that size--only rarely does a shorter QB make it to the NFL. Reich brought in taller QBs (inherited Luck) and they, for the most part, sucked ass. Rivers? Wentz? Ryan? They were all available when he needed a QB--and he thought he could help them succeed. Heck, 2 of those three were pretty successful before arriving at Indy. He benched Ryan....Maybe he is ready to start evaluating QBs using a different measure than size. Maybe the conversation with Bryce Young opened his eyes a bit--maybe he realized how easy it would be to communicate with a QB who was, for the most part, on his level as far as the position goes. You could argue that Payton at Denver has the reputation now for liking the shorter QBs--Brees and now Wilson--because he does not see the height as a problem. You could argue that Payton provided the blue print for how to help a small QB succeed. He brought in Winston--thought he could convert him--fail. So it is a bit of a lame argument to suggest that Reich only likes the prototypical NFL QBs because that is all he has worked with---there just aren't that many small ones in the league, and he was just fired with his third prototypical QB on the roster. I think that is like saying, "He only dates blondes with blue eyes when he lives in Finland (where 80% of the population is blonde and 89% have blue eyes).

If you are comfortable with him, then that does not mean I have to be--and the argument "other people do it (have "questionable" character guys") is not a good defense. That is like defending cancer because other people have it and they are living. You asked a question and it was answered. Did you not get the answer you were looking for?

Why go after a high salaried character red flag when they are loaded in the draft? You do not value character as an important ingredient because it seems that has been asked and answered on this thread. So if you compare him to other players in positions of less need without character concerns, you lose your focus. Keep an open mind and read what the Huddle just told you instead of defending one possible solution to a problem with literally hundreds of possible solutions. When Frank Reich said, "We are going to want high character players" 4 days ago, did "Frank Clark!" ring in your brain? Character matters.

Why? The draft is loaded at Edge rushers--14 or so are predicted to go first or second round, and most have early starting potential. I am confused when you say "DE opposite Burns" because Burns will be an OLB; Brown and maybe R. Williams or Anderson will be the DEs. Are we playing Luvu at edge rusher? How will Barno do this year? What are we doing with YGM? But the message the Frank Reich has been preaching is this: Character matters. Pass rushers are second to LTs and QBs on the demand list, and Clark is sitting there nearly a month after free agency opens. As you say, in his prime. A better question might be, "Why is NOBODY signing Frank Clark?"