MHS831

I think we are going to draft a WR and OT and be done on O/ On Defense--Edge, DT, S, CB, LB. Zany Prediction: Kicker

He played some at the end of the season. I doubt he sticks.

I would much rather have TMac than Mykel Williams. I stand by that statement.

I am not at all impressed with him. He is slow off the snap a lot, his few sacks--some he went unblocked. PLEASE NO.

Moehrig is a huge upgrade, and I would say that getting DBrown back is a huge upgrade--throw in Brown III over what Tuttle did last year, Wharton over what Robinson could not do last year--and I only see one way this thing could go. Edge is obviously our biggest need, followed by S , DE, and maybe LB and CB. What are opinions on Crumedy?

I do not play either--used to play Madden about 20 years ago. Fantasy? never got into it. And they call ME crazy. I am not. Nope. Just fine.

I was not going to look at this, but you said "Ultimate." That got my attention

65% of the time, NFL runs the 11 personnel which is 3 WRs and a TE. The SS or a LB can cover the TE, and you play one S deep and the other offers run support if the LB covers the TE---so the third CB is necessary. I would feel better if our third CB was Jackson. With Johnson and Horn, it prevents the D from motioning away from or lining up their #1 WR away from Horn. I wish I knew more about it, but that is what I know--' We can also make all DBs better with a better pass rush----

If there was not the trade back option, I would probably have selected Walker.

I was confused about that because his videos showed a NT alignment in KC and the Panther roster on the website had him as a DT, not a DE. Are you speculating or have they said that? I know that Brown III wanted more pass rushing opportunities, but heard nothing to confirm that the coaches agreed to that. UPDATE: I watched some more, and saw him at a 3t some too--so you are probably right. Makes more sense.

I think now trade back would be higher

forgot about him.

From what I am hearing on the board, if we stay at 8 (assuming nobody drops to us): roughly 40% want Walker roughly 20% want Warren roughly 20% want TMac roughly 20% want other Does that sound fair?

It seems to me that we overpaid for Wharton and I am not sure that he is an every down DT at 280 lbs--I think he will probably move between NT and DE depending on the situation. Brown III doubles the run stuffing ability at NT. I realize that we brought Tuttle back--maybe he was out of position as an undersized NT--maybe he can play 3-5tech. We need a DE (3-5 tech) and I am guessing that we could add a NT if we do not like Crumedly. Hard to believe, but we could add up to 2 more DTs in addition to signing 2 and getting Brown back. DE: Brown, Robinson, (Wharton?) NT: Brown III, Wharton

1. Edge Jalon Walker: I have been skeptical of Walker's fit as I would be any hybrid type of player, but his strengths as a person and player and the flexibility he gives the DC is formidable. He gives us a LB who can covert to Edge or Edge who can convert to LB during "hurry up" offenses when you can't substitute. Walker scares me, but you don't draft him if you can't see the fit. At #8, we could do worse. I am seeing more Micah Parsons than I did a week ago. 2. CB Will Johnson: Too often we think of the third CB as depth or nickel because that is traditional thought. In today's NFL, it is common to have 3 CBs on the field since the NFL has gone to 11 personnel --3 WRs, 1 TE--65% of the time, up from 55% in 2010; and if we have an injury to Horn or Jackson, there is not a lot we can do). With Johnson and Horn on the outside and Jackson on the third WR, our secondary is solid, preventing us from having to cover the third WR with a S, who would be assigned to TEs instead. 3. TE Tyler Warren: The only way I take Warren is if I plan to use him as a multi-dimensional offensive weapon. He would give the Panthers an elite TE (when we have been good, we have had an elite TE and an elite ILB) and lessen the need to reach for a WR by giving Young a shiny new weapon. There are a lot of teams who like Warren, so if he is still on the board, watch a team like the Rams try to trade up. With Sanders as an option in a 2 TE set and depth, we would have a pretty good TE room. Chris Simms recently said Warren would be better than Brock Bowers. Well.... In five years: Warren finished his five-year college career with 1,839 yards, 153 receptions and 25 total touchdowns. In three years: Bowers in three years at Georgia finished with 2,538 yards, 175 receptions and 31 total touchdowns.

Been saying this for a month: If a team falls in love with an OT, they will make an offer to move up.

I own an Arizona Breakdown Tshirt from about 20 years ago. So there is that....

You must have researched him to know this--I said I would research him. And there are trades, etc. during the draft--you really need to know the full board.

I always found it fascinating that these experts can watch hours of film doing the same thing you will do on Sundays, interview the player, measure the player, weigh the player, time the player, and then invite the player to your facilities for one-on-ones and private workouts---yet your first round draft pick is a coin toss in relation to probability--it makes you wonder. Random chance. So if you see red flags and have concerns about things that cannot be viewed, measured, timed, or tested--things like character, maturity, and desire--you have to wonder how that kid is going to react when you put a few million dollars in his bank account. How will fame impact him? I think those might be the most important factors that determine success--we know they have the ability and resumes. So I think you have to consider the concerns when they show themselves. But it is, to your point, a crap shoot, but most good teams hit on their first rounders while bad teams miss.

The thing I like most about Walker is his character--he is dripping with leadership and class. I used to sit in a coaches office when I taught at Walker's high school before Jalon was born---and talk to his dad and the other Catawba College coaches. They showed me film and talked x and o stuff. I barely remember it, but I liked Bennett, and when Coastal Carolina started their program, he took Jalon's dad with him. So I have many reasons to want Walker on the team and I know he has a football background better than most. I think Jalon's father returned to Salisbury to coach Catawba later, when Jalon was born. I have heard (from former colleagues) that he is a "great kid." That means a lot. Having said that, there is a concern that he could bust because he was not always working on his pass rushing moves, etc. Looking great in college is one thing; as I have said before, people playing 1 role all the time look great in college film, but half of the first rounders bust. So I have to think of his as a bit more raw than a guy who gets DE/edge reps 24-7. This does not mean he can't do it; it means I worry that he does not have the depth of training he needs to transition well to the NFL. He has to be developmental to a degree--so that is where I am coming from-your points are valid, based on selected known quantities, but we obviously are dealing with some unknown variables that should be considered objectively. That is where I am.

I have read that he is NOT an elite edge, but to be fair to you and against my point, there is this by Mayock ( I respect Mayock):

I have been saying, You have to use him properly. We have no evidence that Evero would--so the risk is a bit higher. He is not going to dominate a position, but if you use his versatility to give him an unfair advantage (mismatches, element of surprise) that could make him good--which begs the question, could that not also apply to other players with similar skill sets who were not asked to be hybrids in college? I love Walker the kid and would love to have him if he works out--I am just nervous about it. Fair to him? No, but people here who wanted Bryce said his height was not an issue and there is tape of him throwing from his toes--the NFL is a different game.

Thanks--we need to do this for every player we consider. "Looks like Tarzan plays like Jane" is all I needed to hear.

good thread--we need to bring this kind of opportunity to the surface.