MHS831

good stuff, NAS. Some of us were fans of his before the draft--I was disappointed that we did not take him in the sixth or seventh rounds--we got a break. Imagine where we'd be without him? He has solid hands, runs good routes, and has a mature understanding of the game. Now we know that he has speed. Hmmmm.

The worst thing you can do as a franchise is give up on him before his light comes on-people act like supporting bryce means "Bryce or bust" but it does not--he is an asset, and you keep bringing in people to compete. I do not understand why people struggle with this concept. We want to to succeed, but we should not put all eggs in one basket. However, some folks are concrete, convergent thinkers--it must be black or white, on or off, all or nothing.

Sorry bro. If we could help, we would.

Pull for the man. I hope he shows up and you switch to the Cowboys' forum. 5 catches, 88 yards

While I totally understand this conclusion based on the Panther's defense this season, I still think WR is a bigger need than people realize. Adam Thielen will be about 35--been great--but it is time to start slowing down. XL will be better, but how much better? In year 2, we need 800 yards from him or more. After that, we have Coker-a player I am very high on. I think he can be a solid #4 WR. David Moore has been a surprise, but he will be an UFA and 30 in 2025. Not sure he is a roster spot. We need 2 WRs, and we need a true #1 if possible. Free agency is not the place to find WRs, but I imagine we will find one there; most WRs probably do not want to come to Carolina and the Bryce passing attack. I think there is depth at Edge (through round 2, surprisingly) and DT (through round 3). For this exercise, they had to choose two. I think Carter is overrated and I would love to have Graham, but we get Brown back and a first round DT might be overkill. I think WR is weak in this draft and if you do not grab one early you will miss out. IMO our biggest needs/areas of concern when regarding available talent have to be Edge and WR. As much as I like Graham, there are DTs later who are pretty impressive.

While on the topic of Mike Green, he had 38 SOLO tackles, 81 overall--he averaged 1.5 sacks per game vs. Ohio St. and Va Tech, so the level of competition does not seem to be a factor for him. Tankathon has his as the 11th ranked Edge; NFL Draft Buzz has him rated 12. I expect his stock to rise, but if it does not, I personally think he would be a steal in the second round. NFL Draft Buzz has his 40 time at 4.57 (not sure where they got that). He has the length, the size. I look for consistency too--sometimes a player can have 4 sacks vs a reserve OT from Ricky's School for Wayward Teens and disappears in most other games. He had sacks in every game except three, and in those games, he had 11, 8, and 5 tackles respectively. That probably means (in the 11 and 8 games) that they were not passing the ball. However, for an edge to have 81 tackles/38 solo tackles and 17 sacks is domination. I should note that Marshall had a high scoring offense and the opposition was playing from behind a lot, but top-rated Abdul Carter had 1 sack in two games against Bowling Green and Kent. In 7 of his 13 games, he did not have a sack. Albeit the competition was better, but against a mutual opponent, Ohio State, Abdul had 4 tackles (2 solo) and 2 sacks--a very good game. Against Ohio State, Green had 2 tackles and 1 sack. To put that into perspective, Will Howard and Ohio State were sacked only 10 times all year--and Penn State had 3 of them.

Salisbury High School. He can play in the box, edge, and cover--a three down LB that can be moved around--I actually want him. Keep an eye on Marshall's Mike Green. This year, had 17 sacks, 3 in games vs. Va Tech and Ohio State. Last year? 9 sacks. 6'4, 250--great size. SLEEEEEEPER.

I will say that I appreciate the analysis, Raleigh--it is something that we should discuss if we choose to engage in that issue. The problem with a lot of huddlers is they do not know how to ignore a thread they aren't interested in. They decide to mock it, feeling that they are mature enough to decide what is thread worthy, and what is not--If i read a thread title that I think is redundant or uninteresting to me, I simply do not click on it. "We don't take kindly to no science people 'round here. We gots common sense facts that are are more righter than science--and don't try tellin' us your 'pinions, either. We played pop warner and participate in fantasy football. We don't need no 'science.'"

Just saw this--posted the exact same comments on another thread...100% CORRECT.

I get it--we are treating players like we are a farm team-stop drafting projects and raw players early-- You have 1 job

I get this--he is not where he needs to be yet, but the team is playing better, and some of that is based on improved play from Bryce. It has to be consistent, it has to improve, and it has to lead to wins and playoffs before I am satisfied. He is a game manager on good days right now. Did I feel confident when we got the ball vs. Philly with a chance to win? Nope--to me, the mark of a great QB is when their opponent takes the lead under 2 minutes in the game and everyone thinks, "They gave XXXX too much time."

I do not know of anyone calling Bryce a "Franchise QB," (not to say it was not said, I just did not see it) and I do not think the current Bryce is the answer. This is about potential and the performance of the team. I now watch the second half. In this draft, you have Ward and Sanders at QB, maybe Allar makes round 1 and maybe someone takes a chance on Milroe--I would not. After that, you have Ewers who is probably not going in round 1. Nussmeier has decided to stay in school. However, after that wave of QBs I see some potential if you have patience. I don't look at performance as much as others--I see system QBs in college who play in conferences that don't believe in defense and I see kids who have not yet put it all together, and some flying under the radar. The reason this group excites me is that there is a Purdy, Cousins, or Wilson in this group. I think we need to add one of these raw, undeveloped, or unrecognized gems to the roster and develop him as if he is to be the QB by 2027 if not sooner. I am assuming that we do not draft this QB on day 1, but we find him possibly sliding to round 3. Who are they? I know---some of you will look at his stats or performance this year and think "He sucks!" I can't help people who do not understand the concept of assessing tools and giving performance less weight. However, I will mention the situation in which each QB was asked to perform--and the things they overcame that are unique to their experience. 1. Ewers, Texas. If he somehow dropped to us at any time on day 2, I would strongly consider taking him. He has been a bit injury prone, but he has arm talent and has had to play well enough to keep a Manning on the pine. He has a quick release, amazing deep accuracy, and he has brought Texas into the national spotlight. Injuries are scary but in the past; if he can avoid them, he has a bright future. Still, with Bryce improving, I imagine we draft WR in round 1, DL or Edge in round 2..... 2. Beck, Georgia. Beck had tremendous expectations in 2024 and he failed to meet them. Most of his problems seem to be mental, however. He has a quick release and is deadly on long balls when he does not hesitate (mental). His mistakes were often when he was taken off the spot. He has the talent to be a good NFL player. Remember, the plan is to develop him for 2 years. 3. Rourke, Indiana. In round 3 or even later, Rourke is my favorite dark horse/sleeper candidate. He is 6' 5", 230 and also has a quick release. He is accurate on short, intermediate, and deep throws. So what is his problem? His concentration is broken with pressure and he fails to recover well when that happens. Not very illusive, with a quick release, our OL, and the 2.7 second rule that seems to have benefited Bryce, Rourke could be special. I think he is a good fit. 1.

Is performance at this point more important that improvement? That is the question I ask. Canales has had Bryce for less than a season, and there are positive results. Is the team competitive now? Have we proven that we can play with anyone? If not the improved play of Bryce, what can you attribute this turnaround towards? Better WRs? (not really, he lost Johnson, AT, Mingo, and TMJ--and XL has been decent, but not stellar). The OL? They were playing when we were getting blown out. The defense? Well, they are ranked 31st in the NFL. The Offense is ranked 30th, but that is due to the horrible start. So what is the difference? "Since Returning from His Benching, Bryce Young is completing 62% of his passes, has gone 55/88 for 521yrds, 4TDs, 3INTs, and has a 80.4 Passer Rating. This while playing 2/3 of the games with 2 Rookie Starting Receivers and a Rookie TE." While that is not Pro Bowl material, it is positive and hopeful. THAT WAS NOV 12 WHEN HE WAS TURNING THE CORNER--people noticed then--they are noticing now. The bottom line--you can't just look at his stats and feel great. You can't look at the record and feel that we are playoff bound. However, if he is improving, do you pull the plug? Do you not get excited about the changes in a positive direction? How many of us saw even this coming? If you didn't, don't pretend to know the future now.

Yeah. You can't be really good at every position, and Cade seems to be improving every week. I think his PFF grade is in the 60s--Let Raym and Cade compete--and focus on your top 4 weaknesses (IMO--WR, DT, Edge, ILB) Every team has a weak spot here and there. The challenge is hiding that weakness as best as possible. Playing between Lewis and Hunt is pretty hidden. Again, Cade has been improving each week. I am OK with him at C--not ideal, but he is OK.

It is about football--not Christmas....Drop (as in passes) deep (as a deep pass) pigskins (footballs) and (oil) making them slippery. It was a joke--play on words. Relax. Not meant to offend or be about Christmas.

Here is some low-hanging fruit for you all. Thought I would pile on. However, I am not pessimistic about XL. (I'm gonna regret this) Tracks 1. (Title Track) Season's Greetings y'all; was that the ball? 2. Drop Dem Deep Fried Pigskins in Oil 3. I Will Be Dropping By and Slants for Christmas 4. Better Not Cry, Better Not Pout; At least I Run a Good Route 5. I Rented a Tux But Missed the Christmas Ball 6. Butterfingers in My Stocking 7. Juggle Balls Rock 8. Spike the Punch because I ain't Spiking the Ball 9. O Come all Ye Footbawls 10. Frosty the No Hands

Part of me really likes what Steve is about and I get it---his dog eat dog attitude took him places, but it can get out of control at times....I never walked in his shoes, but he is a very complex person. I used to go to OTAs every year--and Steve practiced then like it was the Super Bowl...He is great with kids, felt the adults were trying to use his name for profit--and many were. He has shown regret for his actions, but when you have one gear, you cross some finish lines first and you make some road kill along the way. I guess his transition to the "real world" has been a reflective process.

He must have matured. We all grow up--well, I am working on it

Looks like he got injured. Gonna be out a while.

To me, mediocrity is worse than losing because you get stuck with mid-round draft picks. we need a few star players. I want to see us with a star ILB and defensive QB to run the team and call blitz audibles at the LOS--it is our tradition--Beason, Mills, Morgan, Luke. We need a Free Safety who can do the same in the defensive backfield--Minter comes to mind. We need a QB who is a true leader--Delhomme and Newton, for example--I worry that Bryce falls short in that area, but he is trying. We need a stud RB or two--and I think we have one and one who stays in the Blue Cross tent. We need a stud TE--Walls, Olsen. Sanders? Not yet. And we need a dominant edge. Peppers, Hardy, Rucker, CJ, for example. And we have never won without a decent to good OL. We have that now. We need 2 WRs who can get open and make big plays and move sticks. Two Alphas. We need one or two now. Have I given up on XL like some here? Nope. In relation to the other Rookies from the 2024 draft, he is where he should be, and I think he has more upside because he is so raw. We have a stud DT, RB, OL, and CB. In one offseason, I see us improving at Edge, WR, ILB, and DT. I would try to re-sign CB Mike Jackson. If Bryce continues to improve we could be competitive next year. I think that the reasonable play is to compete by 2025, playoffs by 2026.

Same thought.

Except Kasay, strangely enough.

I have a theory. For most of our time here, Marty was the GM. He was solid in the first round. He then, in the second round, would say, "We had a first round grade on him." Everette Brown was one--Clausen was another....I ask, "If they had a first round grade, why did he fall?" He said that about Clausen--KC and Minnesota did not have a QB during that draft and they passed on Clausen in the first round--and in the second. That should have been a red flag--what did they know that Hurney did not know? That was also the Armanti Edwards draft. So in round 2, if a player drops, find out why other teams are passing. It could be that they have other needs, but KC and Minn needed QBs and skipped on Clausen. This is AFTER MH spent the evening between rounds 1 and 2 trying to give the Rams the team's first rounder (the following year) and the second rounder that year to move up to take Clausen at 33. That is how you get into trouble--read the room.

I have said this before, but I watched Steve Smith bully the hell out of Dwayne Jarrrett at OTAs---and the coaches let him do it. Steve is a narcissistic munchkin--there were not any WRs who were drafted here who prospered after Smith was drafted-I recall him embarrassing Jimmy Clausen in public, punching 2 teammates, and I watched him bully at least 1 WR. He was not a good teammate-he sucked as a person, in my limited view. However, at 5'8" and 200 lbs, maybe that was necessary for him to be great.

Wasn't Mushin Muhammad a second rounder?