MHS831

That is how I feel. The word "entitled" comes to mind, and that may not be his fault. His dad has already made the comment to the media that he should be playing for the Dolphins. Any time a QB is sacked 23 times in five games (not sure how he did last night) that could be a QB problem--not an OL problem. Again, a lot of this was by watching a few videos, reviewing stats, measureables, a few comments--not what I would consider scouting on any level--first impressions. But I am not sold on him. Cam Ward? All day. The others? Not sold yet.

I am probably most fascinated with Rourke out of Indiana. I disagree that some say Gabriel is a later round guy--I think he goes day 2 at the latest--but I have not put in the research yet--and when I do--I am often wrong.

This thread generated more than I expected. Hmmm. I like a good discussion, but you are all wrong unless you agree with me and I am right. I recall when we had Cam nut huggers on here and that was fine because he was a Panther. Now some are hugging on Sanders. He is a talent, but my point was, he takes a beating. His daddy has been heavy in the portal, has some great athletes, but still can't get a dominant team on the field. His son is sacked a LOT. In the NFL, that makes for a short career. Starter---blue tent---IR---uber driver.

I meant to post this in the Draft section--sorry for the mistake--not sure it can be moved. However, I try to give a different spin on things at times--This was my best guess how it could look by the end of the season, fwiw.

It is likely that the Panthers will have the first overall selection in this draft. In my view, Colorado's Travis Hunter is the best player and best prospect, followed by Tetairoa McMillan--the 6'5", 4.5 40, excellent hands and route running WR from Arizona. While you can argue that the Panthers do not want to take a QB and will draft a pass rusher/edge, you could be right--but how good were we with Burns and our current QBs? We need to draft a QB, but at #1 overall, can we move back and still get our guy? I think so, because I would be happy with Ward or Nussmeire. Here are my thoughts::: If navigating the draft, be aware of the other teams who might also need a QB (all with 1 or 2 wins except Steelers): Raiders (Probably the team that needs a QB more than ever. Tired of retreads--will be aggressive in the draft to get a QB) Titans (not sure Levis is the answer and I expect the Titans to go after a QB--watch out for Jones trade with Giants or DW in Cleveland; they have success bringing in a QB and turning him around) Giants (Wanted a QB last year; will definitely push for a QB this year. I see them as a trade up partner) Browns (so glad we did not sign DW---if you think the Bryce pick was bad...However, i expect Cleveland to stick with DW for 1 more season and upgrade their OL), Steelers (not sure the Fields experiment worked-but they won 4 lost 2. Great coaching. Dolphins (Tua's concussions will cause Fish to go fishing) My process when evaluating QBs: I consider traits and skills like leadership, injury history, release time, pocket presence, arm strength, accuracy, size, running ability, and I also consider supporting cast. I predict upside, longevity, and I ask myself this question: "Down by 5 with 2 minutes to go and no timeouts, who do you want as your QB?" My thinking--Trade back: I am not sure (after reviewing the stats) I want a dual threat, zone read QB. When we drafted Cam, I said (on the Huddle) that we'd be lucky to get a decade out of him. He was 6-5 and 250. "In 2010, the year before Cam Newton sparked the NFL’s zone read revolution, quarterbacks combined for 1,377 rush attempts, which includes both scrambles and designed runs. Last season, we saw more than 2,400 quarterback runs." Meanwhile, injuries to QBs increased. In this chart, you see the number of QBs that started an NFL game has gradually increased since Cam's entrance, and it really jumps when they added a 17th game. So you have to consider longevity as well, and a smart, disciplined QB that does not have to rely on his legs is perhaps the less flashy, long-term play. This might sound racial but it is not, at least in my thinking, because my rationale applies to concerns in Buffalo (Allen), for example. When a QB runs, the take a hit in most cases. They add up. Every time you are hit, you take a risk of missing time. So while buying a Ferrari is more exciting than a Honda Odyssey, only one will take the family where they want to go. (see source at bottom) So how do you keep your QB under center all season? You have a QB who can read the defense quickly, has a quick release, has quality check downs, and a STUD OL. If we get a stud TE and maybe another WR, we could find a QB who can play in this system without having to run 10-12 plays a game--and that includes avoiding sacks by throwing it away. So far this season, Sanders has carried the football 43 times--22 sacks in five games--but that also indicates a potential processing breakdown (which is why I factor in "supporting cast"). He does not throw it away. The result? -43 yards rushing and a QB who might take a beating. Ward has run the football less (25 times for 128 yards), which might suggest that he is wiser when choosing to run, but he has only been sacked 7 times in 5 games. We have so many needs (C, WR, TE, DT, Edge, S, and OT) and a strong OL, I think we can draft a pocket passer (with mobility) who is an alpha, smart, and checks a lot of boxes. Taking all this NAWLIDGE into consideration, and predicting where some of these emerging QBs might be at the end of the season, This is my speculative list of QB talent: 1. Cam Ward, Miami. So far, he is checking a lot of boxes, and if he continues to play well, he is a QB who does not seem to take a lot of sacks, can move, and is accurate. This one was easy. The rest? A bit controversial, but I live on the edge. 2. Garrett Nussmeier, LSU. 6'2" about 205. Who? That's right. Quick release, can throw on run with accuracy. Gamer. He has been on the bench behind a pretty good LSU QB (Daniels) biding his time and learning. Some rough patches early on, but he pulled himself out of them and finished games strong (see Ole Miss). That is character. Think "Tony Romo" with perhaps a bit more upside. His father was an NFL QB and a coach, so he breaths football. He could have gone portal, but stayed at LSU. Highlights from this season: https://youtu.be/IY4X7xxJJ9g?si=shssKWlGqqlRyCrH 3. Shedeur Sanders, Colorado. His completion percentage is gaudy. The problem I have with him, and you could blame his supporting cast, but he has been sacked 23 times in 5 games. That tells me he is not getting the ball out or throwing it away fast enough. Does that mean his processing is slow? WRs/TEs weak? Play calling? Could be a lot. We have that now. Colorado is not, like Indiana, winning. So I will look past the hype and the stats (offense) and put him in the "high risk, high reward" category. It just don't smell right to me. Many may differ. 4. Kurtis Rourke, Indiana. Absolutely shocking here, but long term, this 6-5, 235 QB from Ontario can flat out play. He can process and scan the field. Was successful at Ohio U. Has won 7 games at Indiana and no game has been close, with Indiana scoring 41 or more points each outing (averaging around 50) and the most any opponent has scored (Maryland) has been 28. This kid is winning at Indiana, folks. Who does that? Experienced, in his fifth year as a starting QB (Ohio/Indiana). Good arm. A bit awkward feet, but more mobile than you think. Able to see over the OL (around 8 inches taller than Bryce). https://youtu.be/lZd-VnSBieI?si=VaVgkFojJV7fZU8x 5. Carson Beck, Georgia. Beck struggled against Kentucky and Alabama earlier this season, dropping him out of the top 3 QB discussions. However, he lost Ladd and Brock and Van Pran (OL) during the offseason--and last year, Ladd and Bowers were about all he had to throw to. Beck's last 2 games have been better, but this could change. He is tall (6-4) and has upside. 6. Quinn Ewers, Texas. If heart and alpha was all it takes, I think I would have Ewers #1 overall. However, he is injury prone. Slightly careless with the football, but he has had a stable full of WRs and TEs at Texas. The OL has been solid as well. How is he when he is not on the best team? 6' 2" and about 220, experienced--had the mental toughness to stay at Texas and fight off the Manning shouters...a winner. SECOND ROUND 7. Dillon Gabriel, Oregon. Listed at 6 feet tall, probably 5' 11" at best, Gabriel has 6 years of college experience under his belt. His QB rating has been in the mid 80s on average, and he played well vs Ohio State (23 of 34 for 341 yards, 67.6%, 2 TDs, 0 Ints). He has mobility and has only been sacked twice in five games. Think Russell Wilson (ceiling). If he falls to the second round and we did not pick a QB in round 1, this could be the steal of the draft--if you don't mind another short QB. 8. Drew Allar, Penn State. I like him. He is a work in progress, but he is only 20 years old. The game will slow down for him. At 6'5" and 240, he is a big QB completing over 70% of his passes in a QB-friendly offense. He threw 3 picks in a win vs USC, one was a hail mary, but he is usually safe with the ball. If I drafted Allar, I would sign Andy back and have Allar play behind him--he'd be my 2026 QB. 9. Will Howard, Ohio State. Perhaps yet another name you are not seeing yet, but despite the late slide at Oregon last week, Howard has been solid at OSU. 6' 4" and about 235, I was very impressed with his fire and leadership in a hostile and loud Oregon stadium-he had a 94.1 QB rating in that game--in other words, he stepped up. completing 73% of his passes with 14 TDs and 3 interceptions, hard to believe the Ohio St QB is under valued and under the radar--but I see it that way. https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2023/12/11/23997145/quarterback-injuries-justin-herbert-trevor-lawrence-joe-burrow

I am not sure---I think the trade deadline is Nov 5 and we will see if they are serious about unloading talent that is unlikely to be here. As for Farley, I might convert him to S. He is 6-2 and I think he could be better facing the LOS--but injuries in college and then again in the pros has been his main problem. In 2023, his father died when his home in Mooresville exploded, leveling it. He has had a strange trip so far, but if he can get over the injury bug, he is a talent.

a half season or so of experience is worth a lot. If we can get 5 rookies from this draft contributing in meaningful ways, we are doing it right. XL, Brooks, Wallace, Sanders, Coker, and Smith-Wade is a nice draft. (6)

He was a bright spot, imo. Maybe a signing on a team making a playoff run that gets an injury--PFF score (going from memory) was about 63 and Smith-Wade is 40.8.

Hill has been playing well. But if we are building for the future, and they see something they like in Smith-Wade, probably a smart move---it could signal the beginning of some veterans being purged to develop younger talent and maybe get some picks. We shall see--Hill was a solid nickel--just old. (32 I think)

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/panthers-release-of-troy-hill-opens-up-an-opportunity-for-rookie-chau-smith-wade/ar-AA1swf1u

This trade is more realistic and it is one I would do, with Brooks coming back and to get out of the contract (Sanders to KC): https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrihJjLWxFneAQ_TqgPxQt.;_ylu=Y29sbwNiZjEEcG9zAzEEdnRpZAMEc2VjA3Nj/RV=2/RE=1729219660/RO=10/RU=https%3a%2f%2fheavy.com%2fsports%2fnfl%2fkansas-city-chiefs%2fmiles-sanders-for-draft-pick-swap%2f/RK=2/RS=AKZgXOYMJ6Y4tlRtdw1f1_WVhdg-

Bill Barnwell...got it all figured out. Writers know that trade speculation gets a lot of hits---jeez. The world we now live in. News is what survives spin and propaganda.

I am a fan. The culture needs to stay positive--he will get his players and he will be fine.

Fitterer has no right to be anywhere near a football field--he needs a 2000 foot restraining order. All his moves sucked--even when he had a 50% chance of being right.

If he had been a seventh rounder who was forced to start, we'd have cut him by now.

Pretty low bar for the number one overall draft pick.

TMJ is an example of what I consider to be ironic about the NFL. If he were a fifth rounder, he would have been cut year 1. Instead, based on his salary and draft position, he gets a bigger window. Coker, for example, is undrafted, and if he had come in and dropped 2 passes in his first game, he'd be gone. If you are drafting players that have to be developed over a period of 3 years, you need a new GM.

Not worth a big contract

the good news? Christensen just turned 28. He has about 1.5 games under his belt at C. His PFF grade (97 snaps--small sample size) is 69..5. He has no penalties and has surrendered no sacks. If he can take the C job (we will see how he does over the next 10 games or so) that would be huge.

Nijman seemed to me like he was giving up a lot of QB pressures. I was shocked that his score was that high

Before I look at the results, I will say that BC did a good job at C--Coker at WR, Sanders at TE, and Hunt at G. Chuba at RB was good. Nijman was terrible. Thomas was terrible. I did not see a lot of good on Defense--Woods sucked, in my view. Wallace had some moments where he was good, but both LBs were MIA a lot. Inside, the DTs were terrible. Not much pressure from any OLB. Seeing the defense is going to be interesting--Horn was a bit off but good at times, Jackson was solid again. I am going from memory and was not grading them.

Very good points.

Which is why I would sign MJ (Hee Hee) him to an extension now. Considering the cap room, Johnson might get an offer, but any free agent WR is going to want to go where there is an established QB. Johnson had Pickett and Bryce---imagine if he were with Buffalo, KC, or Washington, for example. Too many other greener pastures for him.

He would be #1 on my re-sign list. Johnson is likely to seek a big deal and leave, and most second contracts for RBs do not pan out. Think about it--they are in their primes at 25-26 when the second contract comes around. They start dropping off at 27 on the average, but you will be paying them on numbers that were accomplished in their primes. It is hard to let go, but sometimes, considering the availability of RBs in college who would give you four years on a first contract, you would get better production vs. the cap than most RBs on a second contract vs. the cap. Chuba would be hard because I like his toughness and leadership--but I would use the money elsewhere. We have Brooks, by the way. Tough call. Jackson has been a beast and probably would be fairly affordable. I've seen enough--I would extend him now.

Pull against the Rams! I think we should trade away players that are going to be difficult to re-sign. This is going to make people mad--you have to look at the BIG PICTURE and not the position. Yes, we'd like to keep AAAAAA but if we pay AAAAAA we cannot fill a need at position z. Chuba Hubbard RB: He is in his prime and running hard. I would LOVE to keep him, but he could bring us a second rounder. His contract expires this season, and it would take $$$$ to keep him--we have Brooks and maybe could draft a RB--I just do not like signing RBs to second contracts, so why not get something for him and use the savings at a rare position like DE. Dionte Johnson WR: I get the feeling he is leaving, and without Thielen, Johnson will probably have a 1000 yard season if he were to stay. I think he can really help a team in a playoff race--I would expect a second rounder for him as well (but I am speculating--don't really know the market--but if a team needs a WR, Hmmmm). Jadaveon Clowney OLB: At 32 making $14m, hardly worth it. If a team wants him and would assume his contract, I would probably let him go for a seventh rounder. Why? We need to develop Barno and Johnson to go with Wonnum, understanding that Edge is our priority in the draft. Clowney gets in the way and has not been productive. Miles Sanders RB: At 27, he is in his prime, but not playing like it. He could be traded for a conditional pick, just to get his salary off the books. This is why I say never pay a RB a second contract---in most cases. Bryce Young QB: Here is the tricky part--some of you say Bryce is done. If we cut him or trade him now, we get nothing. If there is an injury and a playoff team wants Young, trade. His value should be to remain on the roster and compete next year with the new QB and (possibly) Dalton, if we bring him back for another year. I want to cut or trade Bryce now, but he is not a distraction and his contract is fully guaranteed. Wait for an opportunity. Bryce is going to make $38m here--if you trade up for the first overall pick, you better get it right. We didn't. Anyone who would take on part of his salary would get my interest.