MHS831

While my recent post focused on a position group (WR) that I expect to be much improved, I am equally eager to see the new OL take the field. Not only are they better, I can list three glaring reasons I think they would be better even if we kept the same personnel: 1. We have a new offensive line coach in Joe Gilbert. He did well in Tampa Bay keeping Brady upright, but he has about 30 years of NFL experience. He is not Campen, a coach I was excited to get but noticed how much he sucked over the last two seasons. 2. We have a new assistant coach with TE coaching experience (from Seattle). Kekuewa should help Pat McPherson when the TEs are working on blocking assignments with the OTs. Knowing how to trade the TEs and use them to help a tackle against speed rushers should be a new wrinkle. Before, we did little of this because the Offense was getting set a few seconds before the play clock expired. Bryce is smart--use his brain and allow him to move TEs if necessary. We actually have 2 TEs who should be good blockers (Thomas and Tremble)--use them to help Moton and Ekwonu. 3. 2.7 seconds to release the ball. Teams blitz less when they know they are not getting to the QB. 4. An elite RB. Brooks and Chuba is a pretty good tandem. All of those make us better before we take a look at the OL personnel The Offensive Line personnel Left Tackle: Ickey Ekwonu: Ickey needed a solid technician coming out of NC State and he did not get one. Campen had trouble communicating with Gen Z OL, and he and Ickey could not have been more different. Ickey will benefit from the new coaching staff. While many Huddlers are concerned, he was a respectable 67.4 on PFF--and the OL are probably one of the easiest positions to grade accurately using their metric. With smarter TE help, a quicker release, a better LG, a better running game, and better technique, I expect Ekwonu to cut his penalties and sacks in half. Depth is also important, and Yosh Nijman was an excellent signing. In about 1000 snaps over the past 2 seasons in Green Bay, the PFF score for him is a respectable 62 (rounded average). Left Guard: Damien Lewis: Lewis has a dangerous combination of power and excellent feet. He can reach block in a zone scheme (his specialty) and he can scoop and pull. He is great at positioning his body to finish blocks after contact. PFF scores range from the high 50s to low 70s over the past 4 years, but this guy is smart and gets to his man. When he and Ickey get familiar with one another, we will be able to run Left with power as much as right...Christensen is much better depth than we have had at G in the past. He is smart and a good pass protector at G--not as powerful, but over the past 3 seasons, he has averaged around a score of 60-which is decent for a backup. Center: Austin Corbett While we have never really seen Corbett play center, there are some who think it is his natural position. I am sure he is intelligent and experienced, As seen in the video below, he has been groomed to play center for years, but situations have necessitated that he play elsewhere. I am hopeful and confident that his intelligence will be more of an asset at C than LG, and with two stud OGs beside him, he will likely be challenged less than Bozeman was last season. With a young QB, a seasoned veteran like Corbett to call schemes is probably going to take some of the load off Bryce. It is possible that Corbett, experienced and in his prime, will excel at the position he seems born to play. The more thought I have given this, the more it seems that by signing Hunt and Lewis and moving Corbett to a position that utilizes his strengths, the biggest weakness of the Panther offense in 2023 is now quite possibly its biggest strength. Right Guard: Robert Hunt. Much like Damien Lewis, Hunt is very good at moving his feet after contact to get his body into ideal position. In addition, Hunt has great hands to help him win stalemates or execute his job responsibilities when the DT stunts or slants away from him. He is great at reaching LBs on the second level, taking great angles and demonstrating good balance. This requires a knowledge of the plays because he must angle toward the point where he expects the LB to be--knowing how the play is going to pull him toward the point of contact. I am very excited about both starting guards. Depth? I am not sure, but Zavala and Mays will get looks as depth on both sides along with BC--(Mays and BC could be backup centers as well). Right Tackle: Taylor Moton. Moton is solid and consistent, a quiet leader who gets the job done. Moton had a very impressive 74.6 PFF rating for 2023. As our best lineman, he simply needs to keep doing what he has been doing. Summary There is reason to expect Ickey to be much improved in 2023. Our guards will be the best combo in the NFL. Austin Corbett will play his natural position and his intelligence and skills will be assets. Moton is going to be Moton. The OL will be experienced but in their primes. While the WR corps is greatly improved, there is no other unit that should be more improved than the offensive line--think Saints OL when Brees was QB--that is what we did. Both Guards have experience playing in systems that featured small, young QBs and the OL coach has a year with Baker (in Tampa). Russell Wilson was good in Seattle; Tua was his best in Miami. Our depth is better. Expected OL Roster: (No more than 9 on 53; Possibly Raym, Jensen, DiRenzo, and Lee to Practice Squad because Cade Mays, Bradey Christensen can back up multiple positions and Nijman can play both LT and RT.) I could see them carrying as few as 8 OL on the active roster) LT Taylor Moton, Yosh Nijman (2) LG Damien Lewis, Brady Christensen, (2) C Austin Corbett, Andrew Raym (Christensen, Mays) (2) RG Robert Hunt, Chandler Zavala, Nash Jensen (2) RT Taylor Moton (Nijman, Christensen) (1)

I think s/he changed pronouns and applied for French citizenship. Elle est La Zod maintenant. Tres Bien. Merci Beaucoup.

Excellent points--for Mingo to have over 400 yards under these conditions is not bad when compared to other WRs drafted when he was taken--but Mingo probably had to take on a larger role that ideal. Still, the catch to target number could go up to average and he'd be in the 500-600 range. Marshall could not have joined the Panthers at a worse time. I think Mingo will probably drop off a slight bit in 2024 because he is now the #4, but in 2025, he might tear it up. Marshall? A great example (like Darnold, Mayfield, Young) of being in a bad system. WRs bust--most of them do, actually, so we need to factor that into our expectations--but I think the reason they bust is based on variables such as coaching, the system, the qb room, etc. Canales seems to get this and he seems to understand what the QB needs and works within that framework--instead of forcing the player into the system so much. WRs have favorite routes--some prefer looking over their left shoulder as opposed to the right, etc. Know your players and develop a plan that plays to their strengths. Tangent over. !!

Please don't start derailing this by telling everyone how bad Young is--we are addressing it, and one of the problems he had was little to no WR separation. No longer a problem, on paper. there is nothing coming out about the season concerning the Panthers this summer--so I thought I would look at the areas we upgraded over the next week or two, starting today--these are my thoughts, so feel free to contradict me--I am excited about the WR corps for 2024, but it stands to look very different in 2025--and I think we need to build the roster with 2025 in mind. It is possible that the top 2 WRs could be gone after this season, the impact would be minimal if Mingo, Marshall, and Smith-Marsette figure it out. If they do, and a player like Jalen Coker has perfected route running by 2025, this group could be solid. But for now, 2024, Johnson/Thielen/Legette/Mingo sounds a lot better than Chark/Theilen/Mingo/Marshall in 2023. Deonte Johnson: (5' 10", 185) We got a borderline #1 WR for an oft-injured CB we were going to lose anyway. Johnson had Pickett, Trubiski, and Rudolph at QB and still garnered 717 yards. With the new OL and better TE play, coaching, and system upgrades, I expect Johnson to be a tremendous upgrade over Chark. At 28, Johnson is in his prime. (Situation: We need him to be around 1000 yards. He can change speeds and directions, making covering him difficult. If given time, Young can hit the open WR and Johnson is good at creating separation. Will he be here for 2025? Who knows?k Adam Thielen: (6' 2", 201) At age 33, he doesn't need to match his 1000 yard season of 2023, but he needs to get open, and that is what he does. An excellent route runner and solid #2, he is best when he compliments a top WR as he did in Minnesota. This should be his last season, but his impact on the developing WRs on the roster should make them better as well. Excellent route runner, big WR in the slot--Young knows where he is) Xavier Legette: (6' 1", 221) The wild card, and I expect him to start slow until the light comes on--at that time, the Panthers should have one of the best top 3 WR tandems in the NFL. Ideally, Legette plays so well in 2024 that it takes the pressure away from re-signing Johnson. I imagine he will play the Z WR this season. Johnathan Mingo: Mingo (6'1", 220--the same size of Legette) was not bad in 2023. He was 57th in the league in receptions last season, and accumulated 418 yards. Those are solid numbers for a #3 WR, but he was actually in the #2 role quite a bit. Regardless, of the 83 targets (nearly 5 per game), he came down with 43 (around 2.5 per game). That could be due to QB accuracy or timing, and it could be due to his struggles to get open. Regardless, as a #4, it will be interesting to see what this does to his development and opportunities. Mingo needs to improve because there is a good chance Theilen is in his final season. Terrace Marshall Jr.: (6'3", 200) With only 19 catches in 17 games, Marshall needs a solid preseason to encourage a trade or secure a roster spot. He is a big WR, but he is only 24. However, the Panthers just added a big WR from the SEC--where and when would he get time? As a #5, can he play special teams? He has slipped from #2 WR to #4 WR to #5 WR in 2024. Not a good direction. They have toyed with him in the slot, and in 2022 he caught 24 of 28 passes for first downs. Is there a future for him? He did ask for a trade last season, so he is frustrated. Keep an eye on him this preseason. Ihmir Smith-Marsette: (6'1", 185) Probably more special teamer than rotational player, Smith-Marsette flashed in 2023 running reverses and punt returns, He was targeted 10 times and he caught 8. He will be 25 when the season begins, so there is still time--he has been a WR on teams that were deep at WR at the time (Minnesota and KC) and he did not stick with the Bears, which could be a red flag. He has a great opportunity here, because if he can stick, there is a chance that Marshall, Thielen, and Marshall could be gone in 2025, leaving the door open for a WR with his skill set in the rotation. David Moore: (6'0", 220) An interesting signing because he had over 1000 yards in receiving between 2018 and 2020 and then he disappeared. I think he is camp fodder with the potential to make the roster. However, the seventh WR on the depth chart should be a young, developing WR, not a 30 year old who has caught 2 passes in the past three years. Jalen Coker: (6'2", 210) Coker has a chance, but he will probably spend the season on the PS. he features an incredible vertical (42.5") which is evident when he high points the ball, but a rather pedestrian 4.57 40. He will need to become a very good route runner and if so, he could become a deadly red zone threat. Lotta "Ifs" to his game right now, but he was very productive in college on a small school level. Still, the best scenario for Coker is to develop technique for at least a season and look for a roster spot in 2025.

Yikes.

While we all know that draft status means little about guaranteed performance, it seems to matter when it comes to second and third chances. A seventh rounder, for example, would be cut and delivering pizzas long before an equal first rounder. Having said that, the system (less so for his position, but who knows) matters. The coaches matter. His maturity matters. He will compete with Barno and Clowney for snaps. Barno (6'6" 245) is big for the position and is coming off an ACL injury. He could play SAM LB and might be better suited for that position--but with Wonnum, DJ Johnson, and Eku Leota over there, Barno's athleticism has forced him to the pass rushing specialist side. Barno has no QB hits or sacks in his young career (he is 25). Chaisson--unlike Barno, had 2 sacks in 2023. He is 24 and was drafted in 2020. I am not optimistic, but the ability is there. Under these circumstances, I do not see him being cut. Barno's ACL should slow his development and Clowney is 31. Clowney is up and down throughout his career, so you never know what you are going to get with him. I also expect the Panthers to be watching the waiver wire, with the first opportunity to grab a pass rusher, but you know they don't get cut often.

I actually figured he was so bad here, he'd never get another decent job. They may have inside info about Tepper's influence--just speculation.

I thought so too, but when you say, "There aren't 64 CBs better than me...." that does not sound as if he is still as picky.

It caught my attention as well, but in that same Episode, Mara was talking the Shoen regularly about Barkley--Mara said, "He is our team's favorite player---by far." Mara was also in the room (if I am not mistaken) when they sealed the Burns deal. I can't imagine, however, Tepper taking the approach Mara took in that he was nothing more than an opinionated observer. Tepper shares his opinion, and people here seem to see it as a directive--that is nothing I can prove, but it is how it seems to be, based on random comments. Bottom line? You don't trade away a 26-year old star DE without letting Tepper know that it is going down. He might not like the terms of the trade and decide he'd rather keep Burns--that is not a decision specific to any GM.

I think it depends on the reallocation of resources--we basically swapped Burns for a couple good guards and then found Clowney. I think the guards will impact the team more than Burns,but if we get nothing out of Clowney--gonna be a long season and the defense will be the problem in 2025. Bryce needs to play conservative, multifaceted football--if we get into shooting matches, we lose. However, without the ability to pass or run the football because our middle OL is crap, then we lose. I do think it all starts with a good OL, and I think we need to keep building it.

Yeah, that post your responded to here was one of misinformation, opinion, sarcasm, and provocation while offering no concrete reasons or supporting facts. The interior on an OL when your QB is 5 10" is a huge problem. I guess we learned, however, that opinions, Huddle membership, and McDonald's Wifi are free.

Offense--Corbett, Young Defense--Barno, Chaisson, Leota (I see the development of edge players behind Clowney and Wonnum to be a story.

DO not rule out Barno. He has improved.

We traded the contract--got 2 players who will make a huge impact on our offense than a DE who gets a sack every other game. I hate to lose him, but I think this will give our guys a chance to step up. I look at differences. What is the difference between Burns and Clowney? Burns is an A player and Clowney is a B player. What is the difference between our Guards and Center last season and our Guards and Center this season? LG was a D-, RG was a D-, Center was a D. We should get an A at RG, B at LG, and C at center. Bigger difference for same money--and our QB will evolve from an F to a C, for example. I can also see our RBs improving from C- to B.

he seems to be, from a distance, no more of a douche than most of my friends--cocky and full of crap. The difference may be that people don't call him out. I used to abuse my buddies when they started to get out of line--and they returned the favor often.

It is easy to predict more of the same, but if consider the variables, your foolish if you think things won't be better.

Mostly made up fluff. Gantt is an agent of propaganda--not a journalist.

I don't think there is disagreement on this board that Bryce must drastically improve. We all saw the train wreck last season, and the only disagreement is who should receive what percent of the blame and how effectively were those needs addressed. Bryce sucked in 2024 and Canales will attempt to fix him. We do not have Alzheimer's. We remember 2023. We get it. I also know that he is short, soft-spoken, and has an average arm at best. I don't expect that to change. Most QBs fail. Most first round QBs fail. Your remarkable hindsight is not needed in June. We got the picture. We know where we stand.

Unless this is an excerpt---I used to work for the Observer years ago--never would have written an article without mentioning the player's position . WR is the obvious guess, but he could be a TE. Will have to google it since OPOY is not a position.

I just built a trophy cabinet. Thanks a lot.

I did not start this thread, but I can end it, by god. I think this helmet would go best with all of the combinations. (I hate silver helmets--dingy, and too many teams (Lions, Raiders, Patriots, Cowboys) have them--that is nearly 1 in 6 teams have silver helmets, and I am not including Tampa Bay and their pewter. I thought I would like the black helmet more before I saw it, and they will never adopt a black helmet in the South playing outside. The solution, and the best looking helmet, is this:

I think he was talking about practice facilities--and they are pretty lame.

Maybe your high school should have done a better job of allocating resources. ( "High School" is two words which is why I cracked this joke....just playingaround. )

I used to go to OTAs a lot when Fox and Rivera were coaching. The clips I have seen from OTAs seem more upbeat and intense.