MHS831

I will say that since QBs now want second contracts nearly 25% of the cap, RB is a good place not to pay players on second contracts.

You are so sweet!!! I was just having some fun with you, since you were with me.

By the way--some of you need some ability to understand that a thread that is titled "Hope for TMJ?" Is not a ringing endorsement to fit him for a yellow jacket. It means that he might still have a pulse, and perhaps it is too premature to throw dirt on his casket. Do you comprehend the difference?

yep. And if they became that here, it would not be bad for the 4th and 5th WRs--they were over drafted. Mingo had 418 yards in 2023 and TMJ had 490 yards in 2022--under horrible conditions for WRs. Although rare, if everyone does their jobs, you don't necessarily need 2 1000 yd WRs.

Just to get some new blood flowing--however, yes, he is still on the roster and a new system/coach might help. I am going out on a limb here and going to speculate that the staff and front office know more than the Huddle--the over reactors of everything Panther related.

Yeah, a lot of football is mental. I do believe that Canales knows that--he is so positive. Maybe, just maybe.... It is really easy to say that he sucks- but if you step back and look at this big picture, his skill set is not a good match for the crap we have had here on offense--As a former college player who caught passes, I can tell you that your job is to get open and get the QB to see you and throw you the ball. He did that 10% of the time the QB passed the ball when he played. In comparison, Thielen who had a 1000 yard season, had 13% of the targets. If you compare the catch percentage of targets to the QB percentage for completions, 64% was the average completion percentage last year. TMJ has had 2 seasons at 60% or above--that suggests that he is not far from where he should be. So what is the issue? He has 5 drops in his career--that ain't it, but it is about 9%, which is a bit high. If they can improve the situation for TMJ, he could suddenly not suck--we shall see.

It is a "so you say there is a chance" situation, but he has the foundation.

This place hates you sometimes. For the record. So you are suggesting that, since you think a 23-year old football player coming off a bad season in which he played 9 games is a joke. I never claimed that he was the second coming, but your response seems to suggest that someone has dared to contradict one of your unsupported opinions. Tell me, did you read this at all? Do you see where anyone is saying he will be good or great? Since nobody said that, why do you feel the need to jump in and talking about what you hate ? Are we supposed to give a shiit? Learn to think critically and respond maturely. this ain't middle school, and you will see that when you get there.

This is just some offseason logic because I was seeing the same old thread topics on the Huddle and decided to stir to pot a bit, and I assure you that I am prepared for the "he sucks!" and "What the hell is wrong with you!!!" responses; I have doubled up on my meds today. But as we focus on the top of the WR room--appropriately--we have a lot of stock in 33-34 year old Thielen and newcomer (5-10, 180lb) Johnson. Neither Johnson nor Thielen is a candidate to return in 2025--but that remains to be seen. I had given up on TMJ, and I am not sure that the Panthers have not as well. However, there is something I ran across that suggests he deserves one more season. Based on this stat alone, the author predicted TMJ would have a breakout year in 2023 and "become a household name." Obviously that did not happen, but there were many factors that prevented him to be able to excel in this particular area of his game--and we can blame Bryce and the OL, but maybe the factors were not in place for him to shine. In 2022, Marshall was tops on the list of WRs who ran "GO" routes. See #3, and remember how Canales used Evans in Tampa-- @PFF 1. Terrace Marshall: (97.1) 2. A.J. Brown: (96.6) 3. Mike Evans: (95.1) Of course, Marshall did not have the yardage the others' had (Marshall had almost 500 yards in 2022), but he did not have the opportunities either. Marshall is still 23 years old. Diontae Johnson caught 59% of his targets in 2023, while Marshall Jr. caught 63%. Thielen caught 76%, for context. Chark, the person they brought in to be a deep threat, caught 56% of his targets. Mingo caught 52% of his targets. The only difference between Marshall and all other WRs not named Thielen seems to be the number of overall targets. This suggests (to me) that TMJ is not a great route runner since the GO is the easiest route to run. I think that Canales will want to work to develop TMJ. Put him in a position to succeed. In 2023, TMJ played in 9 games and actually was targeted more than Mingo per game when he was playing (10% to 9%). Mingo played in six more games. Johnson, in Pittsburgh, was target 15% of the time, more than Thielen (13%). In 2022, however, TMJ averaged 17.5 yards per catch and had 490 yards, catching 60% of targets--his QB play was not good, but the OL was much better, allowing him to run longer, deeper routes. I contend that TMJ's digression was likely due to the OL's performance in 2023, not allowing him the time to run the routes that have been proven to be the most successful in his tool belt. Again, he is 23, turning 24 in June. Some of the WRs in the draft this season are that age. Mingo turns 23 this month, fwiw. Can Canales save TMJ? At 6'2" TMJ does have the size he needs to be an outside WR and he has show to be at his best running the same routes Evans and AJ Brown run--so who knows? With a new OL and new coaching staff, I say let him have camp to see what he can do. Still, at age 23, there could be something there. I realize some will say that both Mingo and TMJ suck, but TMJ actually outperformed Mingo last season if you break it down to the number of games, targets, and production per target.

In this game, he was (going from memory) 12 of 21 for 200 yards. Not that great, but this pass, with protection, was big time.

I think I would take Legette over the Texas WRs.

If Fitterer had stayed, it would be fair to call us the UFL's AAA affiliate.

And even if you didn't, Corbett is in the last year of his contract.

I have been mocking, good people, and it is difficult to not mock a C. I just wish I knew how good Corbett can be there. If

We were asking about you. We have had little to argue against without your opinions being posted on here. In fact, I'd say we have been in agreement. We need the conflict that you bring!! Seriously--glad to see you are back

You say two things that I find to be rather interesting. I have been of the mindset that they think they have a center in Corbett. However, they would say that until they draft his replacement, so this issue will be interesting on draft day. I understand that they are going to groom Cade Mays to be the backup center, but Corbett is in the final year of a deal, so drafting a C early could be something they do. As for the Burns/Luvu comment, I think Luvu was used mostly at ILB last season, not OLB. I think, if you consider that we get WILB Thompson back, we will have Thompson and Jewell at ILB when Luvu and committee (Gruiger Hill) were playing ILB last season. Burns, Haynes, and Yeter Gross-Matos were the primary OLBs in 2023, and they are all gone. Now we have Clowney, Wonnum, Chaisson, Barno, DJ Johnson, and Leota at the OLB spots--hard to say they would be better. Biurns (8), YGM (4.5) and Haynes (1) produced only 13.5 sacks last season. Clowney (9.5) and Wonnum (8) and Chaisson (2) produced 19.5 sacks on three different teams last season. If you consider the plan is to develop the impressive athleticism of Barno and Johnson and continue the development of Leota, I am not sure we lost ground. I should note that Clowney and Wonnum's sack totals were career highs, so we should probably expect about 7 from Clowney and probably around 6 from Wonnum--which equals the top 3 Panther OLBs in 2023. I expect Chaisson to be developed here--I would not be surprised to see him become a significant rotational player. Furthermore, Derrick Brown played all the time (more than he probably should have) and he forced sacks to these edge rushers. This year, with Brown and Robinson inside, I expect more collapsed pockets, increasing the sack production for the edge rushers. Luvu is the variable here that must be considered. He had 5.5 sacks. New Panther LB Josey Jewell had 3 in Denver. So if you include Luvu in the Panther sack total the OLBs, The Panthers had a total of 19 sacks from their 4 top contributors. If you throw Jewell into the mix of the four top additions to the Panther roster, the total is 22.5. So the sack production from 2023 actually increased by 3.5 sacks. I do not think sacks, however, is a fair assessment of the overall productivity, but we actually are in a better place in terms of potential sack production.

I mean, better is a pretty low bar.

I agree about the stereotypes, and they are not malicious. For example, Jared Lorenzen could stand in the pocket and throw dimes, like many fit NFL QBs, but it was hard to take him seriously. That big kid for NC State looks wrong out there, but he has his team in the sweet 16--how good did they have to be to become exceptions? I once heard Jim Caldwell talk at a conference, and someone asked him why they don't recruit white running backs. He replied, "There just aren't many out there who are good enough--and that is not a racial statement as it sounds. It starts in the younger leagues--Pop Warner and high school--because those coaches take the black kids and play them at the skill positions. The opposite is true at the QB position. By the time these players get to the college level, they have either quit or they are playing the positions their coaches assigned them even before high school. A black QB does not look right to some people, just like a white RB does not look right." He called it a filtering process, and it happens in all walks of life--it made some sense to me. I thought that was interesting--it was about 20 years ago or more, so much of what he said is prophetic. I keep trying to dismiss Ladd from my pick at 33, but I keep going back. He is the safe pick, and he is 6 feet tall and about 190--runs a sub 4.4 and was 5th at the combine among WRs in the athleticism score area--I do not see how you pass him by if he is on the board. No, he is not as good as Marvin Harrison, but in any other draft, he would be top 20.

I can tell you this--if I were a fringe roster player who just signed a contract with an NFL team, I would not glance at social media.

https://www.pff.com/news/fantasy-football-personnel-adjusted-yprr-2024-nfl-draft-wide-receiver-class This might be the best source to analyze the reason I do not want Mitchell if he falls. It also reflects that Cole and Legette are "red flags" (to a lesser extent than Mitchell) and it suggests that McConkey has been consistent and is highly rated--perhaps the best route runner and hands deserving of one of our second round selections--my interpretation of the data based on bias and background information.

He is wearing #7. Is that over or under his 2024 sack total?

I have tried to like him, but I keep seeing Benjamin and Funchess in my head. Make me see him differently. A smaller, faster WR who runs better routes creates cushion and that is important too, but you could argue that Canales had a big WR in Tampa that worked well with a smallish QB---I dunno. I'd rather have McConkey at 33. I think it is close, but I will watch some more video from your point of view.

This. I was mocking him when he fell, but you really need "dawgs" at the WR position. The ball is in the air, and you know it is your ball--so you go get it. In the NFL, they will eat his lunch if he can't win contested passes. Legette seems to do that. About McConkey, who is becoming my choice at #33. Bucky Brooks said when he was watching film to rate the DBs, he kept noticing how much respect other CBs were giving McConkey--backing up, giving him a cushion, etc. That stuck.

My first thought was McConkey.

I googled him before opening this, wondering who he played for last year. My response?: Oh.