MHS831

There are so many variables, and Andrew Yang should be on our staff--are you reading this Tepper?

Stroud and Young were given optimal conditions to perform at a high level, and they did. Richardson and Levis--not so much. It is closer to apples and oranges than most here realize. Richardson really ended his season better than his stats indicate. Did he respond to coaching? Did he figure some things out? Is he developing and growing at a higher rate than others? That is what makes this so hard to predict.

My phone is smoking hot from people texting me about what I think-- I think the Panthers will be aggressive to get a QB, but not trade the entire draft and a first next year aggressive. I see the Colts trading up with the Bears, who drop to #4. The Panthers will try to get them to drop to #9, and their offer will be aggressive--only if the Cardinals to not trade with Vegas, for example, so that Vegas can land a QB, taking the Panthers' option off the board.

Yes, but what about the thousandths of a second numbers? You give us nothing to go on here.

I still see them being aggressive on draft day--they have been very aggressive so far...

I randomly selected a TE from the starting NFL TE list, and the TE with the #13 receiving grade was chosen (the 11th ranked TE overall in this PFF analysis)--Evan Engram of Jacksonville. https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-final-2022-tight-end-rankings To make this fair, I compared his numbers to not only Ian Thomas, but threw in Tommy Tremble, Stephen Sullivan, and even Giovanni Ricci, a TE/FB special teamer. Cumulatively, the TE position for the 2022 Carolina Panthers Ian Thomas (21 receptions, 197 yards, 0 TDs) Tommy Tremble (19 receptions, 174 yards, 3 TDs) Stephen Sullivan (2 receptions, 46 yards, 0 TDs) Giovanni Ricci (8 receptions, 100 yards, 0 TDs) All Panther TEs: 50 Receptions (2.94 per game), 517 yards (30.4 per game) and 3 TDs (basically, an extra point per game) Evan Engram: 86 receptions (5.56 per game), 914 yards (53.76 per game) and 6 TDs (over 2 points per game) Engram nearly doubled the production of the entire Panther TE roster. And now you know!

Don't know how you make him the first or even second overall pick, frankly.

244? Dang. Very Cam like.

I pray they stay put.As you say, we need 3 players. I think we go QB, DB, TE and OL depth in the draft. Not sure about WR--I think we are going to need a Defensive player or two as well--so we shall see.

Note to Huddle: This thread is going well. People making informed, differing points without acting omniscient, condescending, belligerent. Then I look at the names, and I see why--quality experienced posters who respect others' opinions. Like a wisp (yes, wisp) of cool air on an otherwise humid, unbearable day.

That last one should be called, "Plan 2019-present"

Same with Cam, and he had accuracy issues that caused him to use his arm a lot without the support of his legs--causing passes to sail or miss a lot. I think he used his arm to attempt to bail out the fact that his legs were in "run mode" and not in "pass mode" and that could have had as much wear and tear on his arm as contact over the years. Not basing this on any facts I have read, just my theory.

NFL Network claims that the Panthers (and Atlanta, and another team) are in talks with the Bears to move up to #1--Said it would take a lot for Carolina to move up. I know we have twice spoken with Herndon--maybe to eliminate him as an option, maybe to consider him a viable "plan B" maybe they like him as much as anyone else. Dunno. I think he is plan B, personally.

You mean that six years after being given about $36m he was homeless, sleeping on his mom's couch too?

A lot--if not all of you-- are wondering, "What does MHS think?" Ponder no more. Some of this is fair, and some of it is not fair, but bias is what it is. Bryce Young: Little, smart, and probably at his ceiling. A good college QB, but will he transition? His teams were usually better than the opponents-how will he fare when playing from behind? I think he will be good--maybe a game manager--but I do not see the reason for defenses to fear him. He will be a Colt or a Texan, in my opinion, and they are not good. As with a lot of Bama QBs, we see 1 dimension of them in college--the better WRs, better OL, the better defenses--playing from ahead---(same with Ohio St)---we don't see the QB with lesser WRs, a bad OL, and a defense that limits opportunities and makes you play catch up. CJ Stroud: Good size, nice accuracy when in a clean pocket. Has had nothing but the best WRs in college football, a solid OL. The best NFL QB in NFL history to play for Ohio State was not the starter so he transferred to LSU. The rest have fizzled out in the NFL--that scares me, and it is not fair to Stroud--he is my favorite. Will Levis: His OL struggled and he had some injuries. He has a rocket arm, but I have not seen enough from him to understand how he is a top 10 QB. I hope that he amazes the scouts at the Combine today so he moves up and a team like the Raiders grabs him. I see bust all over him--the Jeff George of our day. Anthony Richardson: As a starter in college, he basically has 1 season under his belt. His accuracy and stats were not good, but he did not have a strong supporting cast. Look at his final 7 or 8 games however (this from NFL Network) and you can see where the light was coming on for him. He was something like 17 TDs vs 5 ints. I think he reads defenses fairly well at this point. Will he be there at 9? The team that I fear grabbing him? Seattle.

0.215% chance of drafting this guy---there are literally 20-30 other players we would draft before him. Let's talk about it more.

His injury and the age thing is why he will be available in round 2---and we would not have to spend draft capital to get him. Richardson or Levis are not playing next year (much) anyway, so why not?

nice. But because that one time we drafted a 30-year old rookie QB we need to make a rule never to draft a QB over the age of 23.... Like I said, even at 26, he can play through 2 contracts and that is what Cam did--he is mature, a leader, and will not cost us a first rounder and a second (probably) to secure Levis or Richardson. It is hard to gauge talent at QB, so I never pretend to act like I know more than my plan. My plan would be to trade back in round 1, grab a TE and then grab Hooker in round 2.

He brought Tennessee to prominance--beat Bama. I hear, "system qb" -- they all are. If there was a system in which you can throw for nearly 40TDs and about 5 ints without needing intelligent processing and talent, then everyone would be running that system. If the system is really easy to run, then it is really easy to defend. Furthermore I see Stroud and Young going in the first 2 picks. So you are looking at giving up a first rounder and maybe a second for Levis or Richardson. Hooker is better than both. He will probably be drafted with pick #39 if we go that route, not #61 or whatever--to make sure we get him. At 26, he has 2 contracts in him, so what is the problem? How many did Cam have in him when we drafted him at 22 years of age?

2023 at that. We older folks need more than days--

So basically, Saturday is the big day. that is what the tea leaves are telling me.

Like I said, if one of the top 3 does not drop to us (4 if you like Johnston), I see us trading back. No real value at #9. I agree that we need edge--no doubt--but I also think a CB (remember the Bucs' game?) and a WR is a bigger need than I am hearing---still, CB is deep and a TE might make the WR need less severe.

Assuming we sign Carr or another starting QB and (since we have been looking at him a lot) draft Hooker in the second round (all the attention he has been getting might be a tell). I decided to get the focus off QB for at least one thread and take a look at what we could get in round In this scenario, I think we sit because non QBs are usually not worth the cost of moving up (the price to move up in the draft in the top 10 is rarely worth it because the QB market has inflated the costs): Agree, disagree (nicely--please don't hurt my feelings with your all-knowing, omnipotence that has no boundaries and separates you from mere mortals), or post your own "big board". These are MY preferences for non-QBs and the order in which I would take them at this time (I have accounted for off field baggage that is known, so this is not purely on talent, but I am not aware of any other Jalen Carter mishaps, so I give him a mulligan here): 1. Will Anderson Bama Edge (unlikely he will last past the top 5; paired with Burns, Oh my) 2. Jalen Carter, Georgia DT/DE (Here is where the experience and quality of the coaching staff pays off--even with his baggage--and I am not that familiar with the details--Carter could drop--to #9? Unlikely. An interior pass rusher from the 5 tech DE spot, he would be a beast, considering his size, athleticism, and length.) 3. Myles Murphy, Clemson, DT/DE (Will he be there at #9? Coin toss. He has scheme versatility and DL versatility, making him valuable. at 6' 5" and 275 lbs, his power and quickness are a problem for any OL and then, QB. He is developing, which means--with this coaching staff--he could become an elite player for a decade--like Jason Watts, for example--that good.) 4. Quentin Johnston, TCU WR (Too high? This WR is going to be special in the right system, but we have Moore and not a lot of star quality after that. Imagine Moore, Johnston on the outside with Marshall, Shenault, and Smith inside? Johnston is NFL ready and is a big target. Don't like Darnold's decision-making in the pocket? Well, what you can't see is WRs covered up--he would make Moore and whoever the QB is better. This would free up Moore, add an elite threat, and let Marshall, Shenault, and Smith work vs. lesser coverage. Win Win Win. 5. Bryan Branch, Bama, DB (This may surprise some of you--He could be there at #9; in today's NFL where they stay in nickel most of the time, a big nickel who can cover like an outside CB and tackle like a LB is a rare find--which is why you want him playing the slot inside, he is a sure tackler and a big DB who can stay with today's #2 WRs and athletic TEs. Heck, he can drop back and play S, or he can be moved outside in a pinch. This would definitely upgrade overachieving Hartsfield, who is great depth and special teams talent, but a liability at times. I love this player) 6. Christian Gonzales, Oregon, CB (The best CB in this draft, and a lock down CB. Imagine him across from Horn? Jackson as a third CB --since he can't stay healthy, it would limit his exposure-- with CJ Henderson as the fourth CB. While I am a bigger fan of building the Defensive front, especially since we are going to the 3-4 base, 2 shut down CBs makes sense because it makes the opposition beat you inside, behind the LBs and in front of the Safeties, with their TEs and slot WRs. Remember how bad the CB play was vs. Brady and the Bucs? Furthermore, cap wise-you would be able to pay Horn when his second contract is due because you lose the Donte Jackson contract. This is more of a "long term" play, I guess, but Gonzales would make our CBs the best in the NFL. To be honest, while I would understand this pick, I am not a fan of it because the Panthers could trade back and still get a premiere DB/CB--deep class). 7. Devin Witherspoon, Illinois, CB/Nickel (I love this DB because he can play inside (6' 2") and outside, but I think he is what the new NFL is looking for at nickel. He is a fierce tackler and makes very quick reads in the passing and run games. He plays with a chip, as if the oppositions' wearing of a different uniform offends him. 8. Michael Mayer, Notre Dame, TE (A good argument against this pick is that TE is deep and we might be able to trade back 4-5 spots and still grab Mayer. Good points. However, Mayer is a true TE--a good receiver and a good blocker--so in a way, it is like getting 2 players in one. I am not sure a more complete TE has come out in several years; there have been some that are more explosive in the passing game, but they disappear in the run game. He has three years of experience as a starter, so he is ready to play and would be an instant upgrade to the offense, making the QB better in the process by providing a weapon. A blocking TE who can reasonably be expected to go over 1000 yards as a receiver. Considering the Panthers' needs, I could see this happening at #9 or with a trade back.) 9. Tyree Wilson, Tex Tech, DL (Wilson can play effectively from the 5 to the 7 techniques. He is 6'5", 270 lbs. He is very powerful, but demonstrates some twitch. I am not as high on Wilson as some seem to be, but his versatility is noteworthy. He had an impressive 2022, with 7 sacks, 14 tackles for loss, and 61 tackles) 10. Jaxon Smith-Njigba, Ohio State WR (He had a great 2021, with 1600 yards and 9 TDs in Ohio State's high octane offense, but was injured in 2022, so who knows where he would be. Without the injury, Smith-Njigba could be the rated much higher, but he has good hands, decent size at 6' tall and 200 lbs. I have him at #10 on the non-QB draft board because we need a WR more than we realize it seems and he is the second best WR with an unknown upside. Gamble pick. Honorable Mention: Joey Porter, Penn St. CB (like the player, but 1 pick in 34 games?) Analysis: Unless Anderson, Carter, or Johnston is there at #9, or a QB to develop (Levis or Richardson), I think the Panthers should trade back. Lotta good DBs in the first round. I like Quentin Johnston if we have a QB in place--I think it would make the offense scary--add a TE in round 2.

If Corral is not ready until July, do you draft Hooker, who will not be ready until about October? I know he said, "long term" but that would be weird for OTAs and early camp.

If we sign Carr...