MHS831

Yes. Russ at 31 has a different body type than Young at 21. He is 7/8" taller and when he was 21, weighed the same--you say that Young will not hold up and you state it as a fact. My counter to that is a comparison with Wilson who has a very similar playing style--one that has allowed him to miss only 4 games in 11 seasons. His size was not a factor because he was very elusive, smart, and did not take hits. I am suggesting the same thing for Young. By the way, Cam Newton was 6'5" and 250 lbs while Russell Wilson was 5'11" 210-215. How many games did he miss during the 11 years Russ was with Seattle?

I did not know the context, which is why I asked. So you are referring to leaks that are coming from an official capacity--from people with first hand info. However, I would say that if the tightness of information is that intentional, that everyone in the building would be silenced--but you are basically saying the info you get is second hand and based on interpretations of snapshots that may not be valid. I would think if the Panthers found out that he was doing this, he might get into some hot water, based on the thread title. I agree--things have been very quiet compared to prior regimes.

I have to wonder if the Panther staff is not having the same arguments about these players or if they are far beyond this aspect.

The combine measures a lot of things, but processing speed is not one of them. You can't cherry pick your points--we are talking about different players with different strengths and different weaknesses. Again, I prefer Stroud, but I make arguments for Young to demonstrate objectivity. Maybe it is time to wake up. Kidding--but you have to look at the complete player--compare Young's college film to Russell's. I'd take Young.

I think he needs to run when he sees green grass and all breaks down, which is different than the designed runs some teams are employing. Josh Allen, for example, seems to enjoy running and being aggressive. it has led to fumbles and might even decrease the length of his career (see Newton, Cam). Stroud can do much more damage with is perfect timing and accuracy. To me, Day was right--no need to run him. Punt or get it the next play. For the record, I am arguing for Young only as an exercise. I want Stroud, but to see the entire picture, you have to be able to objectively analyze both sides. (We are OSU fans--my wife's family is from Columbus and OSU graduates--so I try to be objective--but Stroud is the safe pick--and he is, in my opinion, the most likely to have a long, successful career.)

You are adding 5+ pounds to Wilson at age 30 and comparing him to a rookie coming out of college. At Wilson's combine, he was 204. You have to give Bryce the same opportunity to add weight. Wilson is 215, according to the NFL site. However, I do not see Bryce carrying that much weight. I am guessing he needs to be at about 205-210, and it may take a year or so to get there adding muscle.

Did you not have a person who is not high in the organization giving you information? I might be wrong or misinterpreting your meaning.

So you are saying the Young played at 170 lbs? That would mean that he gained 34 lbs between early January and early March. I guess the better question is this: Where is the line (weight) that determines a player is too small to play QB in the NFL? I literally do not know, but I can say that QBs are babied now, protected like the Pope at a biker convention. Since the QB started getting protected more, the smaller QBs have emerged. The game has changed as well. So if you teach a player to slide and check down quicky (which he can do) and throw it out of bounds, can you prolong his career? Russell Wilson did that better than anyone, and he missed 4 games in 11 seasons in Seattle. Young needs to add size--muscle weight and there seems to be room for it. I prefer Stroud, but if we go with Young, I know we are getting a solid, smart, QB.

The best reason to pick Young over Stroud? If I were the GM, I would take Stroud. I like Young a lot, but Stroud has done what was asked of him at a very high level, and he is accurate, smooth, and unflappable. You can say the same for Young. So does this come down to processing and size? If the processing is not clearly advantage Young, I'd go with Stroud. For the Record, I am terrible at predicting success for NFL QBs.

His playing style is more aggressive and what worked in high school and college for him (running) is probably not the ticket for a long NFL career. I am interested to see what this new coach does with him.

He went to 2 pro bowls--had a terrible year in 2022--but you are not the first to say that about him.

that is a fair statement and it is something I did not fully understand until I started researching the difference between these 2 qbs. Ryan Day seems to have added pro-style elements to the offense, but the pro-style offense employed by Nick Saban requires more of a QB. From what I can see, the QB has a pass-first option, and that option is predetermined from the best I can tell--but Saban's offense is a pro style offense. It is hard to say because they are all hybrids right now, but I made the comment because I know Saban's offense is more of a pure pro-style offense. This is not a knock on Stroud--he is my preference--I am simply attempting to figure it out. While you can argue that Day runs a form of a pro-style offense, it is not as pure as what they do in Alabama. There may not be a significant difference. Have you overlayed the OSU offense over the Bama offense?

Cam had no OL and he ran the football like a heat seeking missile. Russell Wilson played the way you describe--at 204 pounds--and he missed 4 games in 11 seasons in Seattle. Fitterer saw him do it.

FYI, FWIW Last year, Kenny Pickett's hand size (8.5 inches) was the primary issue. Young's hand size is 9.75. Rules protect the QB and Young can be taught to avoid contact at all times--slide, throw ball out of bounds, etc. Russell Wilson weighted 204 lbs at his combine and pro day--he managed to avoid being hit--one of the best at it. Russell Wilson, in his 11-year career in Seattle, missed 4 games.

Gonna get a shot. Was a RT early and G ever since.

So you think Marc Ross, former GM of the NY Giants, is just guessing like the rest of us? He was not predicting, he was evaluating talent from his perspective. When asked, "What would you say if the Panthers draft CJ Stroud?" His response: "I would say the Texans got the best QB in the draft."

There is good reason to think Young will be the pick--most of the NFL experts I have heard that have shared an opinion say he is the best QB in the draft and should be the #1 pick. They are aware of his size when they said so. Kyler Murray was 5'10" and a #1 overall pick, so the precedent has been set. He weighs 205 lbs. He has gone to 2 pro bowls. He runs more than Young will run, but he does not process the field as quickly and he is not as accurate. He was just paid a $46m per year salary and was considered to be an elite qb until 2022 when he was injured, overpaid, and not effective. An ex-teammate (Kelvin Beachum) recently said that Murray needs to "grow up a little bit" if he wants to lead the franchise. Based on my perception, Murray is childish, a front runner, and a whiner. Bryce Young, on the other hand, is respected and admired by teammates and opponents (see what Georgia players said about him). Young is a student of the game, a selfless contributor to the overall objectives, etc. Mentally, he is a man. I would say that he is more advanced mentally than Kyler Murray and he processes more quickly. So why is his size such an important issue to fans but it doesn't seem to be enough of a factor with the NFL experts (Marc Ross, for example, former Giants GM) to drop him behind Stroud. So what does Stroud have that Young does not? Size. He throws a pretty ball and it is on point and on time. He is my preference between the two, but the "experts" I have heard from on NFL Network like Young over Stroud. If the same size, would Young be better? I think so. So then the issue comes down to how much weight you give to weight and height. I think Young (mentally) is far above the other QBs in the draft. He ran a more complex offense and he was able to process at the level of an NFL elite QB. Stroud's offense was not as challenging, but he did go through progressions. He successfully performed what he was asked to do. So over the next 40 days, I think that is the area of these QBs that will be measured--processing. If they are equal, Stroud is the pick. If Young dominates in this area, and he could likely do that, I could see the Panthers going with Young and I could see that being the best decision. I know that it is fun to discuss and will dominate the discussions over the next few days, but we should all state our perspectives based on the understanding that we simply do not know. We do not know that Young will be injured more than Stroud. We do not know which will have a great career and which will not--if the case. We are all speculating. This post was created with an open mind--I prefer Stroud right now, but I could be wrong.

I think this confirms that we are switching to the Notre Dame Box. Who needs Wide Receivers? Just draft AR-15 and run the box.

Here is something I have noticed--the "experts" on NFL network (Marc Ross, David Carr, and a few others) seem to think Young is the best QB and it is not that close. The fans seem to think Stroud is the pick, which is what drives the betting lines. The Georgia football players at the combine stated that they loved Stroud--how calm, accurate, and unflappable he is--but they saw firsthand Stroud's best game ever. They got to know Young at the combine, and they commented how much they liked the person. The fans saw the combine, and Stroud was impressive, while Young watched wearing sweats. 1. How can we be disappointed with either? 2. Stroud was in the playoffs and played a great game-Young was not showcased. Are fans simply riding a wave of momentum over Stroud and have normalized and maybe trivialized all Young has to offer? 3. If you believe processing speed is the most important QB characteristic, you have to like Young. If Young's size bothers you, you have to go with Stroud. Otherwise, aren't they both pretty accurate? Pretty smart? Calm under pressure?

He should be used to being taunted by now. That's mental toughness you can't teach or buy. http://www.espn.com/photo/2015/1130/005_AdamReed007x.JPG

2 things--he said "He checks a lot of boxes", and admitted size is an issue. Furthermore, he uses Brees and Russell Wilson as his examples of high performing QBs--- second and a third round picks He did NOT reference the only 5'10" QB ever taken first overall--K. Murray. Why not, I wonder? I think he was not going to make a statement that suggested that he was thinking of Young from the perspective of the first overall pick, he was comparing him to QBs who defied the odds.

This Just in: Aaron Rodgers cheated. Hippies found this in his Grateful Dead duffel bag following his 4 nights in the cave of pitch blackness: A throwback Jets night light. I knew it.

Unless you are part of the smokescreen. Mind blown. (Sorry, this GIF is a bit graphic, but it is applicable, dammit!)

Exactly. Stroud has been compared to Prescott and Goff. I think he is the best of each. That aligns with the coaching styles of several Panther coaches. Young has been compared to Mahomes and Murray. I think he is the worst of each. While Murray has the same height, he is a better runner. Mahomes has the elusive abilities and accuracy, but he is the best at what he does and Young has not shown to be his equal. Richardson is the pick for all the Cam Newton fans hoping to clone their favorite son, but if the Panthers were interested in that kind of play, would they not have at least made a play for L. Jackson before trading more assets to Chicago? I think Jackson is Richardson's ceiling, and that is fine. I think Vince Young is his floor--yikes. Levis? He has the tools, but has not performed as well. Secondly, he has been compared to Josh Allen. Coming out of college, Josh Allen was not compared to players of his caliber, so to expect Levis to defy the odds and reach his ceiling (Josh Allen) is such a reach. According to one source (and I like the comparision) think Jay Cutler instead. When compared to CJ, there is no comparison.