MHS831

Your problem is you focus on the person making the comment more than the fact that an opinion is just that--to call someone names where there is no correct answer, as much as you don't understand that, is juvenile. So if I explain how stocks that have terrible track records are purchased for pennies on the dollar--that is because the company has good fundamentals and is projected to grow if the sector indicators change. That is science--and it is NOT based on prior performance. I even said you do not put all your eggs in this basket--it is part of the process because it is low risk, high reward if it works out. I will provide another example: In Charlotte, they offered high performing teachers from South Charlotte a $20K bonus to transfer to the most challenging West Charlotte schools. These high-performing teachers struggled--most retired or resigned--did they forget how to teach?. Yet the teachers from West Charlotte Title I schools were dramatically improved in South Charlotte classrooms, most averaging increased test scores by over 50 points--unreal "growth." The Giants are one of those challenging schools. Jones is one of those teachers with low test scores who moves to South Charlotte to teach. So my point was you cannot rely on the stats from a hostile, negative environment to evaluate quality. Is Rogers changing the world in NY? Hell no. Did he suddenly suck? This concept requires an understanding of social and emotional impact on player development. Jones has the skills to be good. I am sorry you have to simplify everything to understand it. If we sign Jones on the cheap and he sucks and we cut him, what have we lost? If he feeds off the better OL and Running game and reaches his potential, we win. Low Risk, High Reward. It is a business decision--not some psychotic defending a loser--which makes it easy for you to attack. If you don't understand the discussions in the gray area, I guess you might attack the person with an opinion that reflects what other teams and players have done successfully. Not my job to educate you. Sue your public schools for malpractice because they did not teach you to think critically and objectively.

Defense of Jones? You need some reading comprehension skills--I was very clear and my reasoning was logical--to someone who is logical. You attack the people behind opinions that oppose yours--an adult learns to respect others' views. So O debated on whether I was going to engage a child in a sandbox, but when I say you cant go on past performance and explain my reasoning-why is your response to insult me using stats from past performance to validate your position? Duh. Please do not ask me to go back and research while you make a statement that is obviously void of research. Duh again--do you realize how hypocritically stupid that is? You simply are concrete operational, aren't you? (Research it)

Seriously? Of course his performance has been bad or he would not be available--you have to look past performance and look at his fundamentals. A Wall Street broker would understand that--the most money to be made is buying unloved stocks--stocks beaten down by performance for any number of reasons. A good investor looks at the sector, the context, the company fundamentals, and if he sees an opportunity for a rebound, he buys that stock for pennies on the dollar. In this situation, Jones has the following fundamentals and measureables: Intelligence, arm, mobility, size, age, and experiences that demonstrate he can be effective in better conditions (when his OL was average, WRs good, and RB great). You folks spit on every idea short of Cam Newton coming back for a third go at it. Forget his performance--we all know it has not been good. Most of you were banging the table for D. Watson, if I am not mistaken--where would we be if that happened? I see that as opportunity to get a "fixer upper" for pennies on the dollar who would come in to compete. However, as I mentioned before about Geno Smith, Goff, Baker, Carr, and Darnold--sometimes the situation is more to blame than the player. Bringing in Jones would not be the ONLY SOLUTION to the QB problem. He plays QB on a losing team in NY City that abuses losers. He is mentally at a low point--I get it--football is very emotional--has a ton of ups and downs, but he has been down far longer than up. Does that mean that I am saying he is going to be a great QB? Some of you scholars will draw that conclusion. I am saying he has all the markings of a beaten down stock that could recover and pay huge dividends to those who saw the fundamentals and took a chance. I still say draft a QB. Aside from Jones' fundamentals, the situation in Carolina is ideal for him: 1. An Offensive line--Carolina has a top 5 OL and it can be upgraded at C. 2. WRs--We need another WR or two, but our rookies are very promising (Legette and Coker). If Theilen has another year in him and we can acquire one, we could be above average. 3. TE--you have to like what Sanders has shown us, and Tremble (when healthy) is decent. I think we could add a TE once we say by to Thomas. 4. RB--Chubbard and Brooks? Solid. RB and the run blocking will be essential for a QB like Jones to turn it around. 5. A solid D. Well, we lost our ILB, star DE (Brown), and OLB (Wonnum) to injury. That is about 30% of the defense, and these were the best players. Those would have been the defense's best players, excluding Horn. We lost Burns We will add a DT, Edge, and probably an ILB. We will add a C, WR, and QB. His stock is beaten down. On wall street when that happens, investors look at fundamentals and not performance. We are not paying for past performance--we are paying for potential performance. Bring him home and out of the nasty Apple--give him a better supporting cast--and let him mentally recover. Pennies on the dollar for a potential good qb. Just needs to get his mind right.

I thought you have to a QB rating without a negative in front of the number.

What the hell is going on in this crazy world we all live in? OK, maybe the intro was too dramatic, but look at the plight of some established QBs on huge mega deals: 24. Aaron Rodgers 50.7 QBR 25. Dak Prescott 47.4 26. Daniel Jones 47.0 31. Derek Watson 22.4 Meanwhile, unloved stocks with much lower salaries when signed who have busted on their previous teams are outperforming these guys making $50m or so a year: 10. Derek Carr 61.5 14. Jared Goff 59.1 18. Baker Mayfield 56.4 19. Sam Darnold 55.5 https://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr So if these 4 retreads are outperforming 4 QBs getting paid bank, what does that say about the market? I should add that the top 9 QBs were drafted by their current teams--and three of them were not picked in the first 30 picks of their respective drafts--one was Mr. Irrelevant. Three were first overall picks. Interesting note: Cousins is ranked 15th, and he got pulled for the Falcon's first round rookie on Sunday. I realize that there are many ways to evaluate a QB, but here were some shockers: CJ Stroud is #20. Jayden Daniels (love him) is ranked #5 and Drake Maye is #12. Caleb Williams is #27. For some unexplained reason, Bryce was not listed.

This team tends to go on a playoff tear once they have been eliminated. Seems Rivera was known for it. I don't see a game in our future where we will be the favorite--but they could be trap game spoilers. I am not 100% sold on Ward, so I will be pulling for them to win--I just think a player like Nussmeier or Allar--different styles--could be the better NFL QB. Then there are the players like Rourke at Indiana and Ohio State's Hamilton---he gets no love--and that short QB from Oregon has some fire. Ewers at Texas could be good if he can stay healthy--I am basing this on the fact that each year, nobody seems to grab the right QB in the draft--it blows my mind how wrong these experts really are. I would be delighted to get an Edge and then Allar--if he comes out. I may be too high on these QBs but several have stepped up this year and made me wonder.

I know-I think they must be auditioning at this point. Giants tanking, not going to win another game.

He's 28, has a great skill set, perfect size and at 6-5 230, pretty dang mobile. Andy at 38 is probably not coming back--my guess--and Jones needs a change of scenery--The Vikings, Bucs, Seahawks, Lions, etc. found starting QBs in other team's garbage--two of them from our garbage. the system, coaching staff, etc. makes a difference. I think Jones is a head case right now--if you played behind the OLs he has had and had his WRs--now without Barkely in the backfield-- he has never had what we have here. I would not make him plan A, but I would bring him in as the backup and draft a guy to compete with Bryce. That is about as good as you can do in the NFL. Jones' contract might be an issue--I don't get into that stuff too much.

Call me crazy---you already do----but I think this draft's best NFL QB might not even be a first rounder. I think Sanders goes before Cam, and if you consider that Hunter will be in the hunt, I think Cam Ward could be there with the third pick. Based on remaining schedule, this is the best case scenerio for the Panthers, and it is reasonable:

Stephanski would be on my list

We agree--my point was that I don't think it should be Cam saying it. Part of the problem is the pod format. He gets with his bros and it is more casual. He is sipping wine and Cam has always been truthful to a fault. And that is what this is....He is confused about the treatment, and rightly so. He was not being arrogant or entitled--he was being real--I get that.

Retired jersey, etc. It can't be done on Cam's terms. 'Be patient" and quiet about it is my advice.

I see your point 100% and I agree with Cam in principle--but from the business side of things, it is not a valid argument. Was he doing it for loyalty to the city or money? He signed a contract and both sides fulfilled that contract, just like a teacher or a lawyer/client. Recently, I hired a stud lawyer at $550 per hour to sue my employer for violations to the UNC system policy that "injured" my professional status and reputation. If he failed, he would have kept nearly $30,000. We won a big settlement. Do I owe him more? Should he be on our Christmas card list? What if he went public and said, "I gave my all for MHS yet I am not invited to his house for Thanksgiving." I did give him a positive review and sent his staff a gift card to a restaurant, but that was purely my idea. Cam was paid about $110m for his time here. He signed a contract, he probably outplayed it and he sacrificed his body to keep Ron Rivera employed. Not under debate. But Cam's comment suggests that the franchise owes him more for doing his job well--at least in terms of honor and recognition--I agree, but it it can't come from Cam--and they owe him nothing. They should do it, and they will, but not on Cam's terms. I also think it would be different if we had won a Super Bowl. Frankly, Cam never had 2 winning seasons in a row--so I can see both sides. Maybe only Dan Marino gets a statue without bringing Miami a ring; can you think of another? Fran Tarkenton? Warren Moon? The Titans retired his jersey, and maybe the Panthers should do that for Cam--While I agree with Cam, I just think it should not come from Cam or people in his position. He played, got paid, and the rest is political, emotional, and cordial. It seems petty coming from Cam. So yeah, I feel you, but I don't think that statement helps him. Just my perspective.

In my attempt to view both sides, Cam made a statement that i have heard before and I disagree 100% with its premise. Paraphrasing, he said, "I gave everything to that city." Well, that city also paid you about $120m over your approx. 10 year career-I'd say we are even...But Cam is talking about emotions, and I can say that most QBs who were successful are treated with reverence and lifelong celebrity in the town where their success occurred. It is complicated, and we don't know all the details, which is to your point. I think we are talking about the symptoms of the problems as if they are the central problem. The central problem is one that we may never fully know.

Injuries add up. The event that caused an injury possibly occurred long before you or I think it did. I played in college and I had an injury to my shoulder during week 1. I played the rest of the season, and then it went out during Spring Practice--based on recurring damage. I had a locker room full of players nursing injuries and any trainer will tell you that they do not happen all at once. So to call someone wrong without understanding the wear and tear is arrogant. Furthermore, you can injure your achilles favoring a banged up knee for example. That is how "wear and tear" happens. You know what you read in the papers, and that is fine---just don't call others wrong unless you know the whole story about how "wear and tear" impacts a player. And let's not forget that you have the benefit of hindsight--I was telling you what I said at the time--big difference. Did you play the game?

That has to be the priority and should be until have one. I think there are 2 who have a good chance, and the others are developmental--and I think there are some decent qbs to develop. I think we need a 2-part plan--Sign a vet, draft a QB, and let Bryce compete. None of this entitlement crap. As for the OP, he is right--we need a DT, an edge or two. I also think we need to draft a WR.

I can tell you this: I was a fan of Cam the football player and I used to tell Huddlers that Cam would have a short career and they ripped me. My thinking, he was not that accurate (overthrew a lot) and his incredible athleticism would save the day. I compared his career to that of a RB--when his legs start to diminish and his body has taken a beating, he will be a liability. Not to say I was right--I hated it when I saw it. Here is how I was wrong: I saw Cam acting like a "showboat" during games--hamming it up---the "Look at me" virus. I thought that is disrespectful to teammates. I saw him doing it at the first practice at BOA when he was a rookie in August. Then I started watching practices. With no audience, he was the same way when it was just his teammates. It was passion, not attention-seeking, and his teammates loved him and he loved them. A few years earlier, I watched Steve Smith at an OTA. He was berating Wayne Jarrett. I noticed than none of his teammates approached him or wanted to talk to him. He was a loner--except, oddly, John Kasay. He and Kasay seemed close. Cam deserves a statue, picture, and banner in our stadium. He should be an ambassador. Smith, on the other hand, punched teammates twice and retired a Raven

I think he is less related to Isaac and more closely related to Fig.

welcome to the huddle

The Panthers have KC (in what should be a trap game for them when we have 2 weeks to prepare--won't matter)-- KC TBay x2 Arizona Dallas Philly Atlanta I see one win vs. Dallas as possible. I predict that we finish 4-13. By then, we will be picking in the top 5. I think the Giants will get the #1 pick. Daboll, Jones will be gone. Ward will be the next Giant QB. The prophesy is written.

OK--and I agree with your "He ain't it" comment, but let's be factual. The Giants D lead the league in sacks (the last I heard) and they are ranked 17th overall--that is average--not one of the worst. They rank 6th vs the pass, 29th vs the run. https://www.foxsports.com/articles/nfl/2024-nfl-defense-rankings-team-pass-and-rush-stats

Be careful with Newton--he speculates a lot. Not an insider

There is improvement since the bye--but what bothers me about it is Bryce's reaction to going from terrible to well below average. Sure, the Panthers were winning, but Raleigh is right--he missed a lot of throws that would have blown the game open. Technically, he struggled to win a game against an equally-bad team whose QB was struggling more and will probably be benched. The celebration, the smiling, the basic euphoria he seemed to display is almost upsetting. He has cost the fanbase two seasons, draft picks, a top WR, etc. and he has made millions doing it, and he has a good game and clicks his heels. In fact, I go back to his benching and how upset he was about it. I worry that Bryce has no idea of how high the bar is and what we expect from a #1 draft pick. He seems entitled and spoiled. He has two levels--happy and smiling or pouting. I want to see fire. THAT is what bothers me about him. Can he improve? Maybe, but it must start between his ears. Right now, even his winning pisses me off a bit.

Understand that I am not suggesting that we have only one option or that Bryce young is the future---It seems people on discussions boards are all black or all white--most of this is gray, but they showed his (albeit a small sample) stats before and after the benching on TV--and there was improvement---and the defense was not on the field--at the time--so you make some statements that are nice talking points, but not based on fact. I realize you felt the need to pound your chest, but if we are going to discuss players, be truthful and not emotional, especially when you make statements to support your assumption. There is no doubt that Bryce has been releasing the ball sooner, throwing it downfield more, and going through his progressions with more confidence. While I realize a defense gives the QB more opportunities and better field position, all QBs have defenses. My attempt is not to praise or belittle, but to look for truths that will help us/me see the direction this club will go. If the experts thought he was not improving or that he was done, they would not play him the rest of the season as you suggest. There are 52 other players on this roster, and if you lose them and hurt their stats by proving a pointless point about your QB, you demonstrate that you do not know how a team operates. Could Bryce improve? It is possible--regardless of how certain you are now. Can he improve enough? I doubt it, but I have seen stranger things happen. Yes, your opinion is widely accepted, but there is no need to makes unsubstantiated statements or embellish his stats. In the past 2 games, he is showing statistical improvement--they showed the graph on TV. The after was not great, and the before was terrible.

why is that important? I hope Bryce continues to get better so we can focus on edge and WR in the draft.