LinvilleGorge

What are you talking about? There literally wasn't a poster on this forum more against that Sam Darnold trade than me. They're just of a similar mold. They both have high level physical talent but they're not QBs. Lance is a bust. Sorry, man. I get it, we all like prospects in drafts that end up busting. It is what it is. It happens to coaches and scouts and GMs too. Don't feel bad about it. But don't be in delusional denial either.

I think rookie Stroud is quite a bit better than current Dalton and Dalton looked quite a bit better than Bryce, so...

If we had Stroud and he was rewriting rookie record books no one would be saying this. There's never a bad time to land a franchise QB.

Speed is speed but some routes allow for a higher max speed than others.

He needs to be playing LB. It's so obvious at this point and I'm someone who defended him playing (strong) safety for a long time. He's a LB. Pure and simple. If we insist on not playing him at LB then yeah we need to just trade him already.

Types of routes matter a lot. You're not gonna run a drag as fast as a g you're not going to run a slant as fast as a post. When everyone is fast and they're all playing slow it's probably not because of each individual player. That's all I'm saying.

He's not playing well. It's really obvious. That doesn't mean he's definitely a bust. But the handful of kf folks who can't take any Bryce criticism are just not being rational in my honest opinion.

Rout running absolutely matters but fast is fast. If you're fast you're just gonna run a sloppy route but you're gonna do it moving fast. It won't be crisp, it might not be right, you might be rounding off your cuts, etc. But you're going to physically be moving fast even if you're not getting A to B on the field efficiently.

Thanks. We really try to let people speak their minds. We don't censor any football opinions. Pretty much the only things that get hands smacked around here are over the top or constant personal attacks or personal bickering and getting political. Other than that, pretty much have at it. And hell, even then if you want you can go to the TB and do all the personal attacking and political nonsense you want. Pretty much the only thing that is out of bounds over there is doxxing, blatant racism, and death threats. Seriously.

Actually it's just the max speed on the route. So you could suck getting off the line, making your breaks, etc. as long as you were running fast somewhere along the way.

I do want to know about this methodology though. Is a screen a "route" because if so, then yeah our average route speed is gonna be sloooooow.

40 time isn't everything for sure and good route runners will be faster on the field than bad route runners, but when everyone has good 40 tikes and everyone is playing slow there's a bigger problem than the physical speed of the players.

Seriously. I've been saying it for awhile. If I was Tepper, the phone call would go something along the lines of... "Listen, I admit it. I thought this was going to be easy. I thought I was going to come into the NFL with a new way of thinking and analysis and just dominate the league. But it hasn't been easy and I have fuged everything up and the harder I try the worse I fug things up. I know you're retired and I'm not asking you to be the GM or really any long-term role. What I'm asking of you and is to come in on a consultant basis and build me a football organization that will consistently field a team that I can be proud of. I swear to god I'll butt out and leave them alone. So here it is, blank check (within reason) to build the football organization of your dreams and then ride away into the sunset or hang around in a consultant role if you choose. I just desperately need help cleaning up the mess I've made."

Look at the stands. Notice the lack of Panthers gear folks are wearing when you're out and about. Tepper is killing this fanbase with his product. If we banned people for being negative there would be about five posters left.

So why is this? I mean, we all knew Thielen had lost a step so that's not surprising. But DJ Chark ran a 4.34. TMJ ran a 4.38. Mingo ran a 4.46. These guys are fast. How are we making them look slow? This is a coaching/system issue more than it is a physical lack of speed issue.

I have to admit that this is not what I thought he meant when he assured us that our days of mediocrity were over. I mean, technically speaking he did not lie but I find myself longing for the days of mediocrity.

I agree that Bryce isn't the problem. Neither is Reich or Fitterer or the roster. The problem is on the owner suite. Those other people are part of the problem but ultimately David Tepper is THE problem.

@Mr. Scot whether you stick around or not I wish you and yours nothing but the best brother.

Yep, that's him. He's probably a SS in today's game if he could even play. It's just a different era of passing game and speed/quickness is king.

I mean, yeah. Pretty much. And ironically, I don't even think the Legion of Boom approach to the secondary even translates well to today's game. I mean, Sherman and Earl Thomas do but Chancellor is a LB in today's game and I don't see that other big CB that played opposite Sherman (can't remember his name off hand) translating well to today's game.

I'm being completely honest. We can't look at the offense it became in 2011 and became in 2023. Make an honest appraisal of the talent going into those seasons. There isn't this massive difference you're trying to make. Smitty barely had over 550 yards in 2010. Under 1000 in 2009. A lot of us thought he was basically washed up. The 2011 offense VASTLY exceeded all expectations. This year's has vastly underperformed. I don't think the QB position is the sole reason behind that, but I think it's a big part of the story. I keep going back to that Seattle game when there was a change at QB.

I really don't. That's the honest truth. We had two good RBs in 2011 but we went out and signed a 1200+ yard RB this year. He looks like a bust of a signing but is it because of him or us or a combo of the two? We went out and signed Shockey and traded for Olsen in 2011. Olsen became great but he was a disappointment of a 1st round pick when we traded for him. We went out and signed a high level FA TE this year. I didn't like the signing but it is what it is. We thought he was going to really help. He was basically an Olsen level acquisition if you look at their comparative prior performances. Our #2 and #3 WRs were Brandon Lafell and Legedu Naanee. Look at what those guys accomplished sans Cam Newton. We had a pretty good OL in 2011. Gross, Wharton, and Kalil made up the best left side we've ever had. On the right we had a JAG in Hangartner and a disaster in Bell. This year we have a top 10 pick LT who was very promising as a rookie, a good center, trash OGs, and the best overall OT we've had since Gross at RT. I'd take the 2011 OL but it's not like they were this years Niners. I just think it's a lot of cope and revisionism to paint the 2011 offense as leaps and bounds better based on what we understood going into those seasons. All I'm gonna say is that there's a big reason why QB is considered the most important position in all of sports. The right guy makes everything look better.

He usually makes them. That's the difference. When you make a trade like this you think you're getting a QB that can elevate an offense. What it looks like we actually got is a QB that needs the offense to elevate him.

I honestly don't know. I don't know if that system and surrounding talent would've been enough. I'm afraid he might need a Niners or Dolphins type situation.

They were especially tiers better at the QB position.